ADA Tejas (LCA) News and Discussions

[Kunal Biswas]

 

[sayareakd]

Good time to make LCA network centric.

 

[Lions Of Punjab]

There are nothing second and first line, Its always the first line with mix of fighters, Let me elaborate some positive points compare to other fighters ..

1. Unlike MIG-29, Tejas have larger bore sight engagement capability they are also low observable compare to all metal built MIGS, Has latest Internal EW suit and full glass cockpit compare to MIG-29, Not to mention Tejas have lower operational costs so does maintenance ..

2. It can carry A2G munition same or more than MIG-27 may not be JAG though and has better flying preform-ace ..

3. Better in almost all aspect compare to MIG-21 bision ..

But how can we say it is better than F-16 ? we have experience of Mig's not F-16 . Tejas' fly by wire system also exists in all other 4th gen planes like the F-16 .

 

[sayareakd]

But how can we say it is better than F-16 ? we have experience of Mig's not F-16 . Tejas' fly by wire system also exists in all other 4th gen planes like the F-16 .

Singapore AF use Indian soil for their practice, We got info as to how Israeli AF operates their F 16, and we have host of data from MRCA tender when F16 applied for it, including technical documents.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

See, I can go on comparing F-16B52 with Tejas MK1 as of FOC grade, But that would turn this thread into piss measuring competition ..

Let me keep this simple, In some aspect Tejas beat almost all other fighters in the world except few 5th generation and 4.5gen fighter, that its made of mainly composites and has radar reflective coating, It is highly low observable fighter ( Stealth ) giving Tejas first strike ability against its enemy, As in air-combat schools it is said, Who shoot first wins, Surprise is a key element ..

And as Sayreakd Sir, Said we have very good opportunity to test F-16B52 ability and technology ..

But how can we say it is better than F-16 ? we have experience of Mig's not F-16 . Tejas' fly by wire system also exists in all other 4th gen planes like the F-16 .

Singapore AF use Indian soil for their practice, We got info as to how Israeli AF operates their F 16, and we have host of data from MRCA tender when F16 applied for it, including technical documents.

 

[p2prada]

Singapore AF use Indian soil for their practice, We got info as to how Israeli AF operates their F 16, and we have host of data from MRCA tender when F16 applied for it, including technical documents.

That has nothing to do with what he asked.

 

[Twinblade]

Good time to make LCA network centric.

It is net centric. The first fighter in Indian service that would carry ODL from day 1 of service. Su-30 require retrofitting and MiG-29 and Mirage-2000 would carry ODL post upgrade.

 

[sayareakd]

That has nothing to do with what he asked.

he has asked

But how can we say it is better than F-16 ? we have experience of Mig's not F-16 .

First he asked how we know it is better then F-16 and how as we dont have F16 or what he asked we have only Mig's experience.

therefore this is what i said about knowing F-16.

Singapore AF use Indian soil for their practice, We got info as to how Israeli AF operates their F 16, and we have host of data from MRCA tender when F16 applied for it, including technical documents.

Meaning that we know F-16.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

IAF official inspected Singaporean F-16B52, It was also mentioned in one link related to Tejas MK2 ..

During the inspection it was said that Singaporean bubble glass canopy lacked some radar reflecting material which MK2 will have ..

 

[p2prada]

he has asked

First he asked how we know it is better then F-16 and how as we dont have F16 or what he asked we have only Mig's experience.

therefore this is what i said about knowing F-16.


Meaning that we know F-16.

Okay. I misunderstood.

 

[pankaj nema]

India already has Mig 29 and Su 30 MKI to TEST the Capabilities of our
Baby Tejas MK1

And you guys want Tejas to straight away "fight " against F 16 Block 52 of Singapore /Israel Air force

In Hindi we say " Abe bache ki jaan lega kya "

https://www.google.co.in/search?q=a...rgfhxoCgDw&sqi=2&ved=0CEwQsAQ&biw=802&bih=510

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Trainer

Few more pictures of Tejas ..

 

[Abhi9]

Some pictures from Tejas's HUD and LDP

Tejas locking on

Missile Away

Missile Approaching

Target destroyed

 

[Kyubi]

Sir there seems to be no AUX intake so could you tell me which variant of the Tejas is this.

 

[sayareakd]

Sir there seems to be no AUX intake so could you tell me which variant of the Tejas is this.

Tech Demo......................

 

[Kyubi]

Sorry:fp: my bad it is the PV-1

 

[ersakthivel]

Sir I would like to ask you as to whether engine and AESA radar are the only things that are out of bounds to our aviation industry?
What about the RAM coatings have we achieved enough expertise in this area to justify a Fifth Gen Tech.


F-22's success more than 'skin deep'

How do we rate our maintenance capability of Tejas, DRDO chief Dr Avinash Chander says that since its a homegrown tech, stockpiling of parts will not be problem.

Advantage India: Why DRDO claims that LCA Tejas is the 'best in its class' - Page 2 - Economic Times



If we go by this article then maintenance of Tejas will not be a huge burden but IMHO maintaining a 5th gen aircraft will be a whole new ball game. Cost per flight hour for a fifth gen aircraft will be much higher than what it is for Tejas.

Costly Flight Hours of US Military aircrafts
Costly Flight Hours | TIME.com

Apart from this there are maintenance plans required for few hundred flight hours to maintain and refurbish stealth systems and RAM coatings etc. How are we going to address these issues?

F-22 raptors Maintenance plans
USAF performs first long-term F-22 Raptor maintenance :: Strategic Defence Intelligence

I have used info available on F-22 raptor as a source for comparing its production and maintenance costs to our intended 5th gen fighter. If we go by this info then operating a 5th gen tech will be a expensive affair, this view is in reference to AMCA, regarding FGFA we may have to shell out more money, until it is combat ready, also its maintainability will be a burden on the exchequer.

My concern is that the time required for having a battle ready 5th gen aircraft is too high now that we are still lagging behind china in terms of a 5th gen prototype. Will we able to match toe to toe with the chinese, russians and the US cause they would have had a fully operational fighter with hundred's of flight hours logged in ?

Other than RAM coating,engines and asea

tejas has all the techs present in today's fifth gen like,

compound delta RSS fly by wire airframe,

low wing loading high TWR airframe,

much higher percentage of composites,

thats what I mentioned.

asea and engine techs are being developed,

RAM coating would have been under R&D,

 

[Agnostic_Indian]

DESIGN FOR AIR COMBAT
informative article.
@ersakthivel @p2prada @Twinblade

 

[ersakthivel]

From the Article

may be after FOC .
I don't think so ..then LCA become Second Line of interceptor/Air Superiority fighter after FOC

sometimes ago ACM told Fighters are Combat read ..Above claims only half of them Battle Ready so only 80 of them .

Between now and FOC no major engineering changes are proposed, Only the fly by wire software is going to be updated to 28 deg or 26 dg AOA and G limits to 8. And the interface to fire longer range BVR missiles.

This is the most misunderstood aspect of tejas flight testing,unlike TYPHOON it has already proved its ground strike role and close combat WVR high off bore missile specs. SO nothing major remains to be done as airframe design changes..

India already has Mig 29 and Su 30 MKI to TEST the Capabilities of our
Baby Tejas MK1

And you guys want Tejas to straight away "fight " against F 16 Block 52 of Singapore /Israel Air force

In Hindi we say " Abe bache ki jaan lega kya "

https://www.google.co.in/search?q=a...rgfhxoCgDw&sqi=2&ved=0CEwQsAQ&biw=802&bih=510

tejas is no baby, throughout the development of Tejas F-16 was present in PAF,

and J-10 which was a F-16 variant (lavi design), was also being developed in PLAF.

SO Tejas must have been designed with the idea of facing them, thats why it has such a big radar for a small fighter(same radar size and tracking range as a 11 ton Mig-29 ) and so if F-16 has a bit more powerful radar,

the clean config RCS of Tejas is close to 1 sq meter less than that of clean config RCS of F-16,

Since the F-16 and tejas will have similar long range BVR missiles

But costwise ,You can have two or three Tejas for the cost of one F-16 (full lifecycle cost),

grippen is rated as equal to F-16, so you can't rate tejas far lower as well,


SO if tejas mk-1 is equal to Grippen C/D and tejas mk-2 is equal to Grippen NG,

tejas mk-1 itself has far lower wing loading and same TWR as that of Grippen C/D .

Tejas has a more powerful radar than grippen C/D

Both of them are going to have their AOA limited 28 deg in normal fly by wire mode

then why can't we say Tejas is closer to F-16 capability?

 

[Abhi9]

By Ajai Shukla For Buisness Standard
On December 20, the Tejas light combat aircraft (LCA) was cleared to enter operational service with the Indian Air Force (IAF). Now Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) faces the daunting transition from handcrafting Tejas prototypes into factory-assembling the 200-fighter Tejas fleet that Defence Minister A K Antony has envisioned.

The ministry of defence (MoD) has sanctioned Rs 1,556 crore for HAL's high-tech production line that aims to build 12 Tejas fighters each year. The funds will come from the IAF (25 per cent); the navy (25 per cent), while HAL will put up half the money.

Business Standard visited the new Tejas production line, an expansive 28,000-square metre facility in four massive hangars in HAL, Bangalore. Work is already underway on the first IAF order of 20 Tejas Mark I fighters, with an order for 20 more in the pipeline once the aircraft gets "final operational clearance" next year. The first two fighters being "series produced" - they are numbered SP-1 and SP-2 - are visibly taking shape.

"By end-March 2014, SP-1 will fly, and SP-2 will fly a few months later. By the end of next year four Tejas will be in production. In 2015-16, we will build six fighters, and in 2016-17, we will build nine. We are targeting an annual capacity of 12 Tejas fighters," says V Sridharan, the project manager hand-chosen to build the LCA. Earlier, he set up HAL's production line for the Hawk trainer.

Over the years, excellent designs like the Arjun tank have failed the transition from design into product. This is because India's archaic defence production policies make the Defence R&D Organisation (DRDO) responsible for designing equipment, with production responsibility then passing onto a network of eight defence public sector undertakings (DPSUs) and 39 ordnance factories (OFs) with long reputations for sloppy production. Having played little role in design, the manufacturing agencies struggle to produce the system.

The Tejas could be a game-changer. Firstly, HAL has played a major role both in designing the Tejas and in building prototypes for the flight-test programme. Secondly, HAL has brought a radically new approach to Tejas production, adopting global aerospace manufacturing standards and an unprecedented approach to quality control.

Walking around the Tejas assembly line, Sridharan explains that the sixteen Tejas prototypes HAL has built are each different from the other. As the Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) incrementally refined and improved the fighter, each new prototype incorporated improvements and additions. The most recent prototype has a pressure refuelling system that lets the Tejas be topped up Formula One style, in just 8 minutes and then flown back into combat.

"As a result of all these changes, a panel from one Tejas would not fit another. Now we will implement absolute standardisation, with identical components, assemblies and panels," explains Sridharan.

This is being done with laser scanners that ensure that a number of key points (called "locators") on each aircraft being built is exactly where it should be. By measuring with the laser, it is ensured that the locator is within 80 microns, i.e. about one-tenth of a millimetre, of where it should be. These are international standards, used by companies like Boeing.

It is evident from the focus of the laser trackers teams that it is painstaking work. This standardisation, and coordinating the flow of Tejas systems and sub-systems to the assembly line constitutes what Sridharan describes as the process of "stabilising" the Tejas line.

"Once the process is stabilised, we can transition to higher rates of production. My initial focus will be on production quality; then we will scale up production. HAL will meet the target of building 20 fighters by 2016-17," he says.

That was the pattern while building the Hawk. After building just two aircraft in the first year, seven were built in the second year. In the third year, HAL built 18 Hawks, and the remaining 14 Hawks were produced within months.

Within ADA and in HAL, there is expectation that better production could improve aircraft performance. "Better build quality could well improve the Tejas' aerodynamic performance, reducing drag, and improving its speed, rate of climb and turn rate," says a designer.

HAL's chairman, RK Tyagi, explains that the international best practices being introduced in the Tejas assembly line will be replicated across all the aerospace giant's production lines, including the Sukhoi-30MKI line in Nashik and the Hawk trainer line in Bangalore.

"We have earmarked Rs 3,500 crore of HAL funds for making our production lines world class. Our focus is to gain the IAF's confidence. We will do what is necessary for that," says Tyagi.