ADA Tejas (LCA) News and Discussions

[Dark Sorrow]

Composites in LCA

 

[neo29]

with so much carbon composite, it should reduce LCA radar signature, in turn making it little steath, is it not ???

 

[Armand2REP]

with so much carbon composite, it should reduce LCA radar signature, in turn making it little steath, is it not ???

DRDO said it was supposed to be 1/3rd the RCS of Mirage-2000. Mirage-2000 is about 3m^2 so Tejas should be about 1m^2. Seems about right with all the composites and a good RAM coating.

 

[gb009]

Any news on LCA LSP3? Some time back people were posting that it would fly in dec 09 and now its jan 2010 .
Also very little news on the radar that would go into LCA. Will it be an AESA or something developed in house with help from Elta? I fear it will not be an AESA , only my guess though.

 

[gb009]

thanks!

ELTA already has an AESA (2052). Any idea why we are not going for that?

Got this from wiki
"As of 2009, Elta has integrated this radar system into F-4, F-5, F-16, F/A-50, Mirage and MiG-21 fighters. According to some reports, Some prototype versions of the HAL Tejas (and probably the first few of the Production variants) will be fitted with these radars till the indigenous Multi-mode Radar is ready"
link :EL/M-2032 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Armand2REP]

thanks!

ELTA already has an AESA (2052). Any idea why we are not going for that?

Got this from wiki
"As of 2009, Elta has integrated this radar system into F-4, F-5, F-16, F/A-50, Mirage and MiG-21 fighters. According to some reports, Some prototype versions of the HAL Tejas (and probably the first few of the Production variants) will be fitted with these radars till the indigenous Multi-mode Radar is ready"
link :EL/M-2032 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This Pulse-doppler is a far cry from an AESA.

 

[enlightened1]

I had read somewhere that India had received 5 EL/M-2052 AESAs for testing on Tejas. I'll get the link

 

[RPK]

Naval version of Tejas under water as decisions stay pending - dnaindia.com

Bangalore: The naval version of Tejas, the indigenous light combat aircraft (LCA), is stuck in a limbo due to delay in decision-making, pushing the project 3-4 years behind schedule.


An official close to programme, who did not want to be named, said that despite a planned sanction of over Rs 600 crore by the Indian Navy to the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) for design and development of the carrier-borne LCA, the project is languishing “due to delays in decisions by the authorities concerned.”

“It’s been more than a year since foreign aircraft-makers have responded to the request for proposal (RFP) of DRDO’s aeronautical development agency (ADA) for the naval variant of Tejas, but ADA has yet to take a decision on selection of one of them,” said the official.

The aircraft vendors who responded to the RFP include Boeing, Lockheed Martin, Saab, Dassault, Eurofighter and MiG. They will help ADA to carry out the feasibility study and modify the fighter.

Apparently, development of the aircraft is getting delayed because the L1 (lowest tender) identified by ADA — Lockheed Martin — does not have the approvals and licenses to carry out the “full gambit of work identified.” Also, according to an insider, there were many gaps in the proposal submitted by Lockheed.

“Owing to these shortcomings, which had emerged after discussions with the L1 (Lockheed), additional time (six months) was granted to them for obtaining the necessary approvals (from the US government) and revising the area of work so as to cover all the aspects,” said the source.

That period lapsed in September 2009, but the government has not approached the second lowest bidder as stated in the existing rules.

“Normally, only a period of 60- 90 days is given but in this case, initially a period of two months was granted verbally, followed up by another three months. It is not clear as to what ADA plans to do now or who is bearing the cost of this delay,” said the source.

When contacted, P S Subramanyam, programme director at ADA, said he could not provide details on the bidding process of the project as it was “classified information.”

“It (RFP) is still under consideration and the project is going on,” Subramanyam told DNA.

Another industry source, who did not want to be named, said the LCA project of the Indian Navy has been put on the backburner for now as there was no urgent requirement for it.

“They (the navy) are trying to get proven aircraft instead of concentrating on an experimental aircraft,” he said.

Meanwhile, the navy has floated a request for information (RFI) to global aircraft manufacturers for new generation multi-role combat aircraft to be decked on its Russian aircraft carrier Gorshkov, which has been renamed INS Vikramaditya, or the INS Viraat.

Currently, the Indian Navy fleet consists of Russian MiG 29K and the British vintage Sea Harrier. It has already received four of the MiG29K and will take delivery of 18 others over the next few years.

 

[nitesh]

Sigh

This is really bad news this incompetency in taking decision on right time is hurting us really bad. But well....

 

[Armand2REP]

I had read somewhere that India had received 5 EL/M-2052 AESAs for testing on Tejas. I'll get the link

Please do, last I heard, the 2052 is still testing on the 737.

 

[enlightened1]

Please do, last I heard, the 2052 is still testing on the 737.

The news came out around 2007...i'm sharpening my googling skills with this search. Do you mean that the radar is not operational yet?

 

[Armand2REP]

The news came out around 2007...i'm sharpening my googling skills with this search. Do you mean that the radar is not operational yet?

Here is the last thing I have seen...

Elta is completing the development of its EL/M-2052 system with a prototype being test flown using an IAI-owned Boeing 737 testbed.

India's Tejas could get Israeli radar

If it is still on the 737 it needs some miniturisation before it will fit on LCA.

 

[ppgj]

The news came out around 2007...i'm sharpening my googling skills with this search. Do you mean that the radar is not operational yet?

E1, Are you referring to this?-

P.S. Subramaniam, Programme Director, Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA), the defence laboratory that is designing the LCA, told The Hindu that “airworthy units” of the Israeli – manufactured MMR would be arriving here early next week for integration into the aircraft. The Elta designed and developed MMR, Elta EL/M-2052 which will be an interim option since India is developing an indigenous one, has already undergone tests on the flight test bed and ground rig in Israel.

The Hindu : National : LCA to be fitted with Israeli multi-mode radar

 

[enlightened1]

Here is the last thing I have seen...
If it is still on the 737 it needs some miniturisation before it will fit on LCA.

Although it's not the link I am looking for but never mind

P.S. Subramaniam, Programme Director, Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA), the defence laboratory that is designing the LCA, told The Hindu that “airworthy units” of the Israeli – manufactured MMR would be arriving here early next week for integration into the aircraft. The Elta designed and developed MMR, Elta EL/M-2052 which will be an interim option since India is developing an indigenous one, has already undergone tests on the flight test bed and ground rig in Israel.
The Hindu : National : LCA to be fitted with Israeli multi-mode radar

 

[enlightened1]

 

[jakojako777]

hypothetical question(off topic sorry)

would anybody be interested in bill poster with Tejas on it and DFI logo?
if yes, I'm willing to make one that would be size/resolution convenient for home printer(it would be A4 wide but 2X longer which is still printable for majority of home(A4) printers)
let me know here on my post,
I'll do it if 12 members say yes
and I'll post it here on Tejas thread when it's finished (it'll take few days)

 

[RPK]

LCA MK2 getting ready for indian navy

Indian Navy has okay-ed the placement of an order for six Naval Tejas Light Combat Aircrafts (N-LCA). At an approximate cost of Rs 150 crore per aircraft, this will provide a Rs 900 crore infusion into the Naval LCA programme.

That investment in the Tejas programme is rooted in the navy's plan to operate both light and medium fighters off its aircraft carriers.

The Naval LCA will supplement the heavier Russian MiG-29K, which has already been ordered from Russia. The Indigenous Aircraft Carrier (IAC), being built at Cochin Shipyard, Kochi, has been designed with a separate aircraft lift and maintenance facilities for the LCA, in addition to facilities for the MiG-29K. That has linked the development of the Naval LCA with the construction of the IAC, which is expected to join the fleet by 2014.

But the LCA programme faces a bottleneck in choosing a new engine. Two uprated engines -- the General Electric GE-414 and the Eurojet EJ-200 -- are currently being evaluated, but will be supplied only by 2013-14. And only with the new engine will the LCA have the power to get airborne from an aircraft carrier.

P S Subramaniam, the Director of the Aeronautical Development Agency, which coordinates the LCA programme, explains: "We will fly the Naval LCA with the current GE-404 engine to test its flight characteristics, and whether its structural strength is sufficient for aircraft carrier operations. After the LCA is fitted with a new, more powerful engine we will take the next step of operating from an aircraft carrier."

Meanwhile, a major shore-based test facility is coming up at INS Hansa, in Goa, which replicates an aircraft carrier deck on ground, complete with arrested recovery and a ski jump for take off. This facility, which is expected to be operational by October 2011, will be used for certifying the Naval LCA before actually flying off an aircraft carrier. This will also be used for pilots’ training and for training maintenance crews.

 

[Rahul Singh]

HF-XX Tejas aka LCA coming to Delhi on RD.

Broadsword: FLASH NEWS: For the first time, the Tejas LCA will be displayed during India's Republic Day march-past on 26th January!

 

[neo29]

India Summons French Reinforcements

The Indian government has overruled its air force and approved French assistance in bailing out an Indian attempt to develop an engine for the Indian designed LCA (Light Combat Aircraft, or "Tejas"). The French engine manufacturer Snecma will provide technical assistance that will cost the Indians over $200 million. Earlier last year, the Indian air force had asserted that Snecma assistance would not bail out the ill-fated Kaveri engine program. But the government apparently believes that it is necessary for India to acquire the ability to design and build world class jet engines. Only a few nations can do this, and India wants to be one of them, soon, at whatever cost.

When work began on the Kaveri, in the mid-1980s, it was believed that the LCH would be ready for flight testing by 1990. A long list of technical delays resulted in that first flight not taking place until 2001. Corners had to be cut to make this happen, for the LCA was originally designed to use the Indian built Kaveri engine.

For a jet fighter, the engine is the most complex part of the aircraft, and the Kaveri has had its share of setbacks. Fortunately, there was an American engine, the GE 404, that fit the LCA, and could be used as a stop-gap. The Kaveri engine is still not ready for flight tests. The American engine has been used in the meantime.

Four months ago, the Indian Navy announced it was buying six of the new LCA fighters to fly from the new carriers they will enter service in the next five years. This is an experiment to see how the LCA will do as a carrier aircraft. The navy has already bought navalized MiG-29s for these carriers. The navy LCAs will also be navalized (mainly stronger landing gear, a tail hook and different cockpit electronics.) The MiG-29K weighs 21 tons (16 percent weapons), while the navalized LCA weighs 13 tons, 34 percent of that weapons. The MiG-29 is a better fighter, but the LCA carries a little more (4 versus 3.5 tons) armament, making it a cheaper way to attack ships or land targets with missiles and bombs. A land based carrier deck is being built, so the naval LCA can begin tests, and training pilots, within two years.

The LCA is only now preparing to enter mass production. Five prototypes already exist, and another ten pre-production models will be built next year. By 2012, mass production (at least 20 aircraft a year) is to begin, no matter what. Or at least that's the plan. For over two decades, India has been trying to design, develop and manufacture its own LCA "lightweight fighter," but the project has been a major disaster.

The U.S. F-16 is probably the premier "lightweight fighter" in service, and entered wide service about the time India began thinking about creating their own. Both the F-16 (at least the earlier models), and the LCA, weigh about 12-13 tons. But the F-16 is a high performance aircraft, with a proven combat record, while the LCA is sort of an improved Mirage/MiG-21 type design. Not too shabby, and cheap (about half the cost of an F-16). Also, for all this time, money and grief, India has made its aviation industry a bit more capable and mature.

For all this, India only plans to buy 200-300 LCAs, mainly to replace its aging MiG-21s, plus more if the navy finds the LCA works on carriers. Export prospects are dim, given all the competition out there (especially for cheap, second-hand F-16s). The delays have led the air force to look around for a hundred or so new aircraft (or even used F-16s) to fill the gap between elderly MiG-21s falling apart, and the arrival of the new LCAs. However, two decades down the road, the replacement for the LCA will probably be a more competitive, and timely, aircraft.

The LCA was not the first attempt to produce an Indian jet fighter. The HF-24 was an earlier attempt at developing a modern fighter. Designed by Kurt Tank (designer of the FW-190 and Ta-152), the HF-24 was a failure because India could not develop a powerful enough engine. Thus the 147 HF-24s built, served from the 1960s, to the 1980s, as a ground attack aircraft.

Warplanes: India Summons French Reinforcements

 

[himanshugoswami]

overall, good to see the GoI taking a decisive positive step for the LCA, if this is accurate. I especially liked this

. By 2012, mass production (at least 20 aircraft a year) is to begin, no matter what.

But with this, I wonder what will happen to EADS who were pinning hopes on the Kaveria/LCA engine programme to be the catalyst for EF in the MMRCA.

However, this killed the credibility of this article.

The delays have led the air force to look around for a hundred or so new aircraft (or even used F-16s) to fill the gap between elderly MiG-21s falling apart