ADA Tejas (LCA) News and Discussions

[nitesh]

Everybody should read this:

PS: If you can read
requesting for a better image but it says that LCA should clear the flight enveloop for service entry.

LSP 3 will come shortly.

 

[p2prada]

Most modern engine blades are made of "single crystal material" .when India develops engines, Indian suddenly find they can not manufacture it at all. So India have to develop the material from scratch. the development of "single crytal material " take indian decades and the whole project of LCA has to be delayed for it. Instead, USA worked out such material in 1950s-1960s,long before they launch the engine projects.

Wrong. India has developed its own single crystal blades for Kaveri and it had nothing to do with Russia.

When India devleoped engines, Indian suddenly found that they have not build enough windy tunnels and testing beds at all, so they have to send its engines to Russia or French for key tests,because Indians found they have no enough time and money to build so many expensive infrastructures.

Wrong again. All wind tunnel tests were carried out in India. The tests carried out in France and Russia were only to validate the tests.

The high altitude test bed is absent in India mainly due to political considerations and not technological. India will need a lot more pull and money to consider having bombers in the Airforce. Without bombers there can be no high altitude tests.

.......
besides, sophicated NC machine and supersized forging-tech are also needed for the R&D of manchines. Developed countries like USA and EU have applies those tech widely to their civilian workshops.

We are making the AL-31FP from scratch in India. Even China is not capable of that. So, what does that mean?

so they can easily transplant those tech to the R&D of engines while India has to develop those tech fro the scratch...

You are talking as though China already has all that.

 

[Rahul Singh]

Sometime back 'PPGJ' had asked for specification of LCA MK-2. I was digging in past and i found this on BR.

Avionics and Weapon Systems Architcture for Modern Aircraft (Tejas Mk.2)
- RS Rao, ADA

Factors and technologies for future a/c:

Lethality
- BVR
- A2G, A2A
- Multirole capable

Survivability:
- Sensor Suite
- EW Suite
- Failure Management
- redundancy
- Reconfigurable
- Independent Standby instrumentation

Supportability:
- Extensive Built in Test (BIT)
- Reliable and maintainable
- Scalable
- Open Systems Architecture
- Commercial potential for developed technologies
- Affordable

Low Observable:
- Automatic Terrain Following
- Passive Sensors
- Data link
- Internal sensors
- Controlled emission
- Passive missile launch

4th Gen Architecture was characterized by Data fusion using high end processors, lack of dedicated display guages and combines video, audio and sensor displays (Glass cockpit)

The Challenge for a modern aircraft would be to counter system obsolescence during development. This is exacerbated by the extremely short component market life of around 3 years... what this means is that by the time your upgrade is ready, the components have already gone out of market, and aren't supported. What complicated matters is that the defence industry is only 1% of the semiconductor market, and is not large enough to service as a main customer.


Present LCA Avionics Architecture

The TD LCAs had custom architecture. This was changed to an Open Systems Architecture in teh PVs. The change took only 3 years, and was per IAF requirements. The OSA is based on 2 open architecture computers, with COTS technologies and OO Software, and is based on VME and a PCI Mezannine Card (PMC), to ensure software portability.

The LCA Trainer has a common architecture, which saves costs. All 3 variants shre teh same software. The weapon writing is completely dispensed with and is replaced by Pylon interface boxes.

The present architecture allows for complete automated module level testing.

Private industry has been extensively involved in this, includint - L&T Infotech, ACL, Deepthi, Redstone (UK), etc.

Future LCA Avionics Architecture

It will be an Integrated Modular Architecture (IMA), which will be based around a Core Integrated Processor (CIP). The CIP provides the o/p feed and does the high end Signal processing, image, data and audio processing toether and feeds it to the required systems.

- The CIP works on an intelligent OODA loop.
- the Data from sensors is collected through a high end processor and sent to the CIP through a fibre channel.
- The data is then fused in teh CIP.
- The Pilot associate works on the fused data and provides a plan of action for the pilot.
- The o/p is sent to the relevant displays such as MFDs, HUDs, etc through a fiber channel.
- Signals are also sent to the FCS and other systems, such as the vehicle mgmt sys, stores mgmt system, cockput display system, INS, etc.

This also allows multiply aircraft functions to share computing resources. The advantages of CIP are the advanced functions such as:

- More data fusion
- Pilot Associate
- Auto target recognition/tracking
- Digital map & terrain generator
- BIT
- Automated emission control.

The weapons interface for the Stores mgmt system will be the MIL STD 1760, which is already existing on the LCA.

The LCA Mk.2 will be able to carry more varied types of stores.

Sensors:
- EO Systems
- AESA Radar
- Datalink
- Communication and Identification system
- Acoustics - Audio warning, active noise cancellation headphones,
- Direct Voice Input (DVI)

Timeframe for LCA Mk.2: 3 yrs

All credit BR's K. Prasad

 

[ppgj]

Sometime back 'PPGJ' had asked for specification of LCA MK-2. I was digging in past and i found this on BR.

All credit BR's K. Prasad

great find rahul. thanks.
any info on wing area, no of hard points etc.?

 

[nitesh]

Everybody should read this:

PS: If you can read
requesting for a better image but it says that LCA should clear the flight enveloop for service entry.

LSP 3 will come shortly.

read it

 

[neo29]

from economic sanctions , kaveri engine prob , GE 404 engine not up to mark.GE 414 or EJ 200 engine yet to be procured, the list of problems for LCA is never ending. by the time this baby being inducted, i think the 4.5 gen fighters will become obsolete. probably we should upgrade the avionics and other stuff to make it at least 4.75 gen just like sh 18 is doing to make block 3 version.

 

[ppgj]

@nitesh
i was hoping LCA mark 2 to have larger wing area which, while providing more lift, could have given more hard point options (atleast 2 more).
remember it will have a high thrust engine (EJ 200 or F - 414) which will allow more payload to be taken.
also was hoping for more range by added fuel capacity.

 

[nitesh]

@nitesh
i was hoping LCA mark 2 to have larger wing area which, while providing more lift, could have given more hard point options (atleast 2 more).
remember it will have a high thrust engine (EJ 200 or F - 414) which will allow more payload to be taken.
also was hoping for more range by added fuel capacity.

LCA is a small plane buddy how much you can cramp in to it larger wing area can come with a new wing which will require more testing. Increasing range will not help much as we have MKI and MRCA for deep strike role. LCA has IFR fcility so it compensates for less range in that sense.

 

[ppgj]

LCA is a small plane buddy

no issue here.

how much you can cramp in to it

let me quote from the wiki pages -

LCA - Wingspan: 8.20 m (26 ft 11 in)
Wing loading: 221.4 kg/m² (45.35 lb/ft²)
&
JAS Gripen - Wingspan: 8.4 m (27 ft 7 in)
Wing loading: 336 kg/m² (68.8 lb/ft²)

HAL Tejas - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
JAS 39 Gripen - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

both LCA and Gripen are evenly matched otherwise. see the wing span and wing loading of both.
there is a lot of gap between the two. the changes can make it better than gripen.
i do admit however gripen too has 7 hard points.

larger wing area can come with a new wing which will require more testing.

agree but considering LCA mark 2 is still years away, it is worth a try, i guess, particularly in view of the new engines which will come online.

Increasing range will not help much as we have MKI and MRCA for deep strike role. LCA has IFR fcility so it compensates for less range in that sense.

do note LCA mark 2 will be better than (my hope) our mirage 2000's when fully operational apart from replacing mig 21's. they may eventually replace the mirages too. hence we can make them more potent both in terms of payload capability and range.

 

[nitesh]

no issue here.

ok

let me quote from the wiki pages -



HAL Tejas - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
JAS 39 Gripen - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

both LCA and Gripen are evenly matched otherwise. see the wing span and wing loading of both.
there is a lot of gap between the two. the changes can make it better than gripen.
i do admit however gripen too has 7 hard points.

The less har points can be sorted out with dual rail launchers so the toal number of weapons carried can be increased

agree but considering LCA mark 2 is still years away, it is worth a try, i guess, particularly in view of the new engines which will come online.

You can see that in engine selection the particular engine which will require least modification will get preference so changing the wings is not a good option (Hint: one major delay is due to change is ASR for carrying R 73 instead of R 60 which resulted in change of wing design and strengthening)

do note LCA mark 2 will be better than (my hope) our mirage 2000's when fully operational apart from replacing mig 21's. they may eventually replace the mirages too. hence we can make them more potent both in terms of payload capability and range.

Well LCA in current configuration with IFR is more then replacement of MiG21

 

[Sridhar]

Type Approval for C/C Brake Discs Used in Tejas Aircraft
High Temperature Composites
Centre (HTCC) of Advanced
Systems Laboratory (ASL),
Hyderabad developed and
qualiied carbon brake discs for Tejas aircraft. The brake disc
technology is type-approved by Airworthiness Agencies.
CEMILAC has handed over the type approval for C/C Brake Discs
of Tejas Aircraft to ASL in a recent function.

http://www.drdo.com/pub/nl/2009/nov-dec09.pdf

 

[Rahul Singh]

great find rahul. thanks.
any info on wing area, no of hard points etc.?

Hard points will remain same "3+1+1*+3".......... No, there will be no change on wing area.

 

[himanshugoswami]

Saw the LCA take off from HAL airport in blore recently, and must say, this is one lovely bird.....cant wait for it to be inducted in the IAF!

 

[venkat]

Recently i heard after PV-5 first flight one pilot it seems has commented that " its so nice to fly LCA , even after the second peg , its difficult to abuse LCA," some thing like that...not exact words...Hope 2010 will do wonders !!!!

 

[ZOOM]

Saw the LCA take off from HAL airport in blore recently, and must say, this is one lovely bird.....cant wait for it to be inducted in the IAF!

Hopefully, for next time onwards, you should take your camera and have some photographs of that lovely bird.

 

[enlightened1]

LCA is a small plane buddy how much you can cramp in to it larger wing area can come with a new wing which will require more testing. Increasing range will not help much as we have MKI and MRCA for deep strike role. LCA has IFR fcility so it compensates for less range in that sense.

I found this on BR

"The LCA Mark 2 will have a bigger and more powerful engine, the fuselage will be changed, it will have bigger wings, and the aircraft will be more aerodynamic,"

- Hindustan Aeronautics chairman Ashok Baweja

 

[enlightened1]

 

[Agantrope]

Reg Tejas Mk II, If we are not able to design an aircraft engine with stipulated amount of time, why cant we go for an design for which the aircraft engine are available, say Al-31F, that means bigger than now and more powerful as we are making Al-31F it wont be a big deal to have the license for extra production.

Tinkering an aircraft for an engine is quite simpler than designing an aircraft engine.

This may give some space for the scientist to breakthrough the innovation

 

[ppgj]

I found this on BR

- Hindustan Aeronautics chairman Ashok Baweja

great find E1.

i have always beleived LCA mark 2, considering its potential, will turn out into a very capable multi role fighter in the light - medium category. with a higher thrust engine up in its belly it will be capable of more payload. being delta wing has a natural high lift and with bigger wings will only accentuate it besides adding more hard points.

my gut is that it will eventually replace the mirages and possibly mig 29's as and when they retire.

time is still there so it is worth the effort.

 

[bhramos]

Reg Tejas Mk II, If we are not able to design an aircraft engine with stipulated amount of time, why cant we go for an design for which the aircraft engine are available, say Al-31F, that means bigger than now and more powerful as we are making Al-31F it wont be a big deal to have the license for extra production.

Tinkering an aircraft for an engine is quite simpler than designing an aircraft engine.

This may give some space for the scientist to breakthrough the innovation

you are perfectly correct,
we need to just make it big and use double engines.