ADA Tejas (LCA) News and Discussions

Which role suits LCA 'Tejas' more than others from following options?

  • Interceptor-Defend Skies from Intruders.

    Votes: 342 51.3%
  • Airsuperiority-Complete control of the skies.

    Votes: 17 2.5%
  • Strike-Attack deep into enemy zone.

    Votes: 24 3.6%
  • Multirole-Perform multiple roles.

    Votes: 284 42.6%

  • Total voters
    667
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Defcon 1

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All evidence are provided, Regarding all the questions even decklander clear some facts, but you are resorting to ranting..

This is not civilized debate, Read what you have provided and than only discuss..
I have read and seen the pics you posted. Let me explain something in simple language:

"The pics you have posted are atleast a decade old. At that time, NLCA mk2 program did not exist. So single NLCA(you can call it NLCA mk1) was supposed to have all the capabilities mentioned in those pics. However, ADA could not develop such a fighter. So a decision was taken to induct a less capable fighter in small numbers and then go for a mk2 very which will have a better engine and added capabilities even beyond that what original Tejas was supposed to have(like AESA radar), so those official specs that you have posted are actually applicable to LCA mk2, not LCA mk1. Thats why I said that only LCA mk2 will be used for combat ops(including anti shipping and fleet defence), and not LCA mk1. This has been my stand from post #1182. Decklander said the same. Am I clear now?"

I repeat, LCA mk1 is not the fighter which we see in those specs. If it was so, LCA mk2 would not have existed.
 

Kunal Biswas

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Wrong, Read poster from 2011 regarding specs of MK1 at post #1183..

"The pics you have posted are atleast a decade old. so those official specs that you have posted are actually applicable to LCA mk2, not LCA mk1.
===============
===============

There is nothing call single NLCA, Its call NLCA MK1, 2011 ADA poster should clear your mind..

So single NLCA(you can call it NLCA mk1) was supposed to have all the capabilities mentioned in those pics. However, ADA could not develop such a fighter.
===============
===============

Wrong again, Learn to read..

4 Trainers +4 Fighters will be used by INAS-552 for operational training of pilots to fly from Deck with very limited offensive capabity.
This has been my stand from post #1182. Decklander said the same. Am I clear now?", I repeat, LCA mk1 is not the fighter which we see in those specs. If it was so, LCA mk2 would not have existed.
Thats why I said that only LCA mk2 will be used for combat ops(including anti shipping and fleet defence), and not LCA mk1.
 

ersakthivel

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I have read and seen the pics you posted. Let me explain something in simple language:

"The pics you have posted are atleast a decade old. At that time, NLCA mk2 program did not exist. So single NLCA(you can call it NLCA mk1) was supposed to have all the capabilities mentioned in those pics. However, ADA could not develop such a fighter. So a decision was taken to induct a less capable fighter in small numbers and then go for a mk2 very which will have a better engine and added capabilities even beyond that what original Tejas was supposed to have(like AESA radar), so those official specs that you have posted are actually applicable to LCA mk2, not LCA mk1. Thats why I said that only LCA mk2 will be used for combat ops(including anti shipping and fleet defence), and not LCA mk1. This has been my stand from post #1182. Decklander said the same. Am I clear now?"

I repeat, LCA mk1 is not the fighter which we see in those specs. If it was so, LCA mk2 would not have existed.
By the time IAF's order of 40 LCA mk-1s are finished Naval LCA mk-2 will be ready.

All the techs for N LCA mk-2 will be developed and proved on NLCA mk-1.

So no one has said that IN will order a couple of squadrons on NLCA mk-1. But does not mean they cannot land on carrier and restricted to shore based facilities.

Only 4 NLCA mk-1 non-trainer versions are going to be produced. They will be used to validate all the operational requirements of Naval LCA mk-2. SO without the excruciating work done on NLCA mk-1 there will be no NLCA -mk-2.

Even the current Sea harrier has 6.3 tons empty weight and 11.9 tons take off weight. Meaning it's full fuel+ weapon load comes around 5.6 tons.Pretty much comparable to IAF LCA mk-1 figures. of 6.4 ton empty and 13.5 ton MTOW. SO even if NLCA mk-1 weighs a ton more than the IAF LCA mk-1 , It is comparable to SEA harrier that is being operated by the IN.

IF NLCA mk-1 manages to take off from the shore based test facility as envisaged by in 1998 article by MSD Woollen

The aircraft will be powered by a Kaveri engine (more information follows) and is to operate from the Indian Navy's Air Defence Ship, under construction. Launch speed over a 12 deg ramp is 100 kts; recovery speed during a no flare deck landing, using arrester gear, is 120 kts. Take off mass 13 tonne, recovery mass 10 tonne. Most stringent requirements are that the airframe will be modified: nose droop to provide improved view during landing approach; wing leading edge vortexes (LEVCON) to increase lift during approach and strengthened undercarriage. Nose wheel steering will be powered for deck maneuverability.
, then what is the fuss all about.

In May 2012, Aviation Week reported that strengthening of the rear airframe and undercarriage for carrier operations, and addition of an arrestor hook, has made the aircraft about 1,000 pounds overweight.
According to your own ,"Source " the above passage means 1000 pounds overweight and it is being pared down.

May be Decklander could more throw light on this comparison.

But we don't know how much extra weight the NLCA mk-1 has now , And after planned weight reduction how much it will weigh empty.

So why are you in a hurry to give unfit for combat tag to NLCA mk-1 even before it's development has finished?

So why are you insisting on this fiction that NLCA mk-1 is not fit for carrier landing or naval combat and restricted to shore based training facility?
 
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ersakthivel

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You find that source and lemme know, better pm me. I gotta go
An Indian Navy official told the magazine, "The naval variant of the LCA will require the F414 Enhanced Performance Engine [EPE] providing up to 26,500 pounds of thrust, a 20-percent boost."

The F414 is still under development.
You call this single sentence from the following site as be all and end all source!!!!!!

LCA Navy - IDP Sentinel.

So as per the claim of the source, IS the Naval Tejas getting GE-414- EPE, which according to the unnamed naval officer,"still in development"?

Navy's requirement of higher powered engine for Naval LCA means it want a more load carrying Naval LCA.

It does not mean that LCA mk-1 is not sea deck worthy.
 
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ersakthivel

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Indian Navy's sea harrier specs,

Empty Weight - 6374kgs
Maximum thrust - 9730kgf(non-Afterburner)
Payload - 3630kgs
Max Speed - Mach 0.96
Service Ceiling - 16,000 m
Ferry range: 3,600km

Compare that with IAF LCA mk-1's Specs
Empty Weight - 6560kgs
Maximum thrust - 8660kgs(Afterburner), 9160kgf(Emergency Afterburner) - F404-GE-IN20


Payload - 4000kgs
Max Speed - Mach 1.6 (target Mach 1.8)
Service Ceiling - 15,000 m (target 16km)
Ferry range: 3,000km

In May 2012, Aviation Week reported that strengthening of the rear airframe and undercarriage for carrier operations, and addition of an arrestor hook, has made the aircraft about 1,000 pounds overweight.
According to your own ,"Source " the above passage means 1000 pounds overweight and it is being pared down.

You find that source and lemme know, better pm me. I gotta go
So before going home please explain why Naval LCA mk-1 is inferior to the sea harrier which was a carrier based fighter operated even by the US navy till recently.

Just look at the top speeds and ferry range . SO even if 600 odd Kg payload weight is deleted from IAF LCA mk-1 pay load weight due to the overweight problem of Naval Tejas mk-1 , it is still a decent fighter. Get some clarification from your source when you come back here again,please.
 
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Defcon 1

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Indian Navy's sea harrier specs,

Empty Weight - 6374kgs
Maximum thrust - 9730kgf(non-Afterburner)
Payload - 3630kgs
Max Speed - Mach 0.96
Service Ceiling - 16,000 m
Ferry range: 3,600km

Compare that with IAF LCA mk-1's Specs
Empty Weight - 6560kgs
Maximum thrust - 8660kgs(Afterburner), 9160kgf(Emergency Afterburner) - F404-GE-IN20


Payload - 4000kgs
Max Speed - Mach 1.6 (target Mach 1.8)
Service Ceiling - 15,000 m (target 16km)
Ferry range: 3,000km



According to your own ,"Source " the above passage means 1000 pounds overweight and it is being pared down.



Just look at the top speeds and ferry range . SO even if 600 odd Kg payload weight is deleted from LCA mk-1 IAF pay load weight , it is still a decent fighter. Get some clarification from your source please,

So before going home please explain why Naval LCA mk-1 is inferior to the sea harrier which was a carrier based fighter operated even by the US navy till recently.
How many times will i tell the same thing? the fact that IAF tejas can carry 3.6 tonnes of weapons doesn't mean IN tejas will also be able to do the same. the weight carried by IN Tejas will be lesser. how can you compare Harrier specs with IAF tejas? compare it with specs of IN tejas mk1?

IN will decide whether it is a decent fighter after deleting 600 kg of payload, not you. Btw, where did you get the figure of 600 kg.

PS: the payload is 3.6 tonnes, not 4 tonnes. Now i am seriously going home
 
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ersakthivel

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How many times will i tell the same thing? the fact that IAF tejas can carry 3.6 tonnes of weapons doesn't mean IN tejas will also be able to do the same. the weight carried by IN Tejas will be lesser. how can you compare Harrier specs with IAF tejas? compare it with specs of IN tejas mk1?
Just tell me one time what is the present empty weight of the naval tejas mk-1. your source says just 1000 pounds, meaning 600 Kg. So deduct 600 Kg from 3.6 tons, It gives you 3 tons.


Even if it carries just 3 tons of weapon load , it has a top speed of mach 1.6, and a radar capable of tracking a fighter sized target at 120 Km range.For naval targets it is twice the range of fighter sized target I suppose.

just compare that to the Sea harrier's 0.96 mach top speed and radar tracking range for naval targets and you will know the truth..

In fact Naval tejas mk-1 will do the fleet defence duties with the specs of the latest 4.5 the gen fighter. Not at the 1970s level subsonic Sea harrier specs. keep that in mind.
 
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p2prada

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This looks LCA lacks of Heat seeking missile integration
Not at all. R-73 now and most probably Python V for Mk2. Its pretty good. Actually Mk2 will be able to carry any type of IR missile. Forces may be thinking of IRIS-T and Aim-132 also.

Then which kind of Radar Guided Missile will be Integrated into LCA
100 Derby have been ordered. Astra Mk1 will be second.

Somebody here accepts Anti Shipping missile in part of LCA ..Although LCA mainly designed to perform Anti shipping Role ..Happy to hear ARM missile integrated to LCA ..Should be like AWACS Killer and for SEAD Mission
We don't know if ARM will be integrated yet. But it should eventually happen. AShM, we don't know which missile will be chosen. We could choose Harpoon or Exocet apart from KH-35. We might see a tender in a few years. We may even see a tender for land attack cruise missile like Taurus or SCALP.

Is it possible adding four BVR 's with this Combination
No, only 2 BVR missiles with drop tanks.
 

rahulrds1

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LCA Navy Project Director, Shri C.D.Balaji interview to AeroMag Magzine.
Present status as of jan-2013?

Post successful launch of the first Naval prototype the NP1, Indian Navy has indicated interest in Limited Series Production (LSP) of 8 aircraft (4 trainers and 4 fighters) in the Mk1 configuration.

Reference :National Aerospace Laboratories NAL:AeroMag-Jan-2013 Magzine.[www.nal.res.in]
http://www.nal.res.in/pdf/AM 1- 2013.pdf
 
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ersakthivel

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How many times will i tell the same thing? the fact that IAF tejas can carry 3.6 tonnes of weapons doesn't mean IN tejas will also be able to do the same. the weight carried by IN Tejas will be lesser. how can you compare Harrier specs with IAF tejas? compare it with specs of IN tejas mk1?

IN will decide whether it is a decent fighter after deleting 600 kg of payload, not you. Btw, where did you get the figure of 600 kg.

PS: the payload is 3.6 tonnes, not 4 tonnes. Now i am seriously going home
If the empty weight of LCA is 6.4 tons and MTOW is 13.5 tons,

13.5 tons-6.4 tons= 7 tons approx(6.9 tons to be precise)

Of these 2.5 tons is meant for internal fuel.

So 7-2.5=4.5 tons,

if you say 3.6 tons is the official weapon load of tejas mk-1 please tell me what constitutes the remaining 1 ton?

So, Payload = Loaded weight ( aircraft+internal fuel+pilot weight) - Maximum takeoff

Payload = 13500 - 9500 = 4000 kg

This is official figure.


Loaded clean take off weight of LCA mk-1 is 9.5 tons. So 9.5 ton- 6.4 ton= 3.1 tons.


From this you deduct 2.5 tons for fuel another 600 kgs still remain. It may be for hydraulic fluids and ammo along with two short range air to air missiles as it is the norm to to include them in clean Take off weight.

So 13.5ton (MTOW)-9.5 ton(Clean take Off Weight)=4 tons of weapon load.

This four tons don't include the couple of short raange WVR . SO it comes close to 4.6 tons.

If you have any other source please post.We will clarify the issue.


It was your Source which said the NLCA mk-1 was 1000 pounds overweight over IAF LCA mk-1.

SO if you convert these 1000 pounds in Kgs into you will get roughly around 600 Kgs was my idea.

If you have any other models of calculation ,please explain.
 
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Defcon 1

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If the empty weight of LCA is 6.4 tons and MTOW is 13.5 tons,

13.5 tons-6.4 tons= 7 tons approx(6.9 tons to be precise)

Of these 2.5 tons is meant for internal fuel.

So 7-2.5=4.5 tons,

if you say 3.6 tons is the official weapon load of tejas mk-1 please tell me what constitutes the remaining 1 ton?

So, Payload = Loaded weight ( aircraft+internal fuel+pilot weight) - Maximum takeoff

Payload = 13500 - 9500 = 4000 kg

This is official figure.


Loaded clean take off weight of LCA mk-1 is 9.5 tons. So 9.5 ton- 6.4 ton= 3.1 tons.


From this you deduct 2.5 tons for fuel another 600 kgs still remain. It may be for hydraulic fluids and ammo along with two short range air to air missiles as it is the norm to to include them in clean Take off weight.

So 13.5ton (MTOW)-9.5 ton(Clean take Off Weight)=4 tons of weapon load.

This four tons don't include the couple of short raange WVR . SO it comes close to 4.6 tons.

If you have any other source please post.We will clarify the issue.


It was your Source which said the NLCA mk-1 was 1000 pounds overweight over IAF LCA mk-1.

SO if you convert these 1000 pounds in Kgs into you will get roughly around 600 Kgs was my idea.

If you have any other models of calculation ,please explain.
mtow is 13.2 tonnes.

LCA Tejas - Specifications: Leading Particulars and Performance

1000lb is 450 kg. sick of your "ideas". bring sources.
 

Defcon 1

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Just tell me one time what is the present empty weight of the naval tejas mk-1. your source says just 1000 pounds, meaning 600 Kg. So deduct 600 Kg from 3.6 tons, It gives you 3 tons.


Even if it carries just 3 tons of weapon load , it has a top speed of mach 1.6, and a radar capable of tracking a fighter sized target at 120 Km range.For naval targets it is twice the range of fighter sized target I suppose.

just compare that to the Sea harrier's 0.96 mach top speed and radar tracking range for naval targets and you will know the truth..

In fact Naval tejas mk-1 will do the fleet defence duties with the specs of the latest 4.5 the gen fighter. Not at the 1970s level subsonic Sea harrier specs. keep that in mind.
1000 lb means 450 kg.

I will repeated it twice already, and i will repeat this again, even if the empty weight of nlca and lca was equal, ncla would never be able to reach stores capacity of lca. so the difference will cut into its weapon stores capacity. the additional empty weight of nlca will result in further deduction in external stores.

Just give me a source for your 3 tonnes of weapons store for nlca. anything source, anything with numbers in it, anything which is not guesswork.

For naval targets it is twice the range of fighter sized target I suppose.
Source? can you write any sentence without supposing or guessing things?

just compare that to the Sea harrier's 0.96 mach top speed and radar tracking range for naval targets and you will know the truth..

In fact Naval tejas mk-1 will do the fleet defence duties with the specs of the latest 4.5 the gen fighter. Not at the 1970s level subsonic Sea harrier specs. keep that in mind.
Yes, the NLCA is better than harrier. Is that something to be proud of for you? Harrier was inducted in RN before LCA program even started. It is capable of performing VOTL/STOVL It proved its mettle in Falkland wars. Even US uses harrier for usmc wing. And now when it is 35 years, you come chest thumping and say that a new kid on the block is better than the harrier.

Let me ask you a question, why do people like you always feel to compare tejas with aircraft like mig 21 and sea harrier. Why didn't you compare it with other contemporary carrier based A/C such as F35c, RAfale-m, and mig-29k. because everyone knows where mk1 stands when compared to other modern aircraft. thats why the easier solution is to compare it with 5 decade old aircraft and feel good about yourself.

Anyways don't bother replying to the post, i will away from the forum for some time. will not be replying to you.
 
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Kunal Biswas

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It just you, If you know anything your wouldn't say compare with other modern aircraft, NLCA MK-1 in terms of material and ECM comparable par with Rafale M so does the Radar effective ranges over seas targets, You cannot debate as you know too little about your own country Fighter Program..

About comparison.. >

1. F35C fifth generation, Medium category fighter..
2. Rafale a twin engine, Medium category fighter..
3. Mig 29K a twin engine, Medium category fighter..

Compared with >

NLCA Tejas MK1, single engine, Light category..

^^

From above you dont have clue what you should be comparing with, Your post is not worth replying for others..

Let me ask you a question, why do people like you always feel to compare tejas with aircraft like mig 21 and sea harrier. Why didn't you compare it with other contemporary carrier based A/C such as F35c, RAfale-m, and mig-29k. because everyone knows where mk1 stands when compared to other modern aircraft. thats why the easier solution is to compare it with 5 decade old aircraft and feel good about yourself..
 

Decklander

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It seems members here want LCA to outdo even F-22, Pak-Fa and even B-52 in load capacity. They must learn the reason for having light fighters, medium fighters and heavy bombers. When shud one be used and in what role. LCA is the best fighter today in its class and for the role for which it has been built. Pls tell me one light fighter which has such bombload, such low RCS, such great manouevrability and such specs?
 

TrueSpirit

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It seems members here want LCA to outdo even F-22, Pak-Fa and even B-52 in load capacity. They must learn the reason for having light fighters, medium fighters and heavy bombers. When shud one be used and in what role. LCA is the best fighter today in its class and for the role for which it has been built. Pls tell me one light fighter which has such bombload, such low RCS, such great manouevrability and such specs.........................?
.........................& such smooth handling capabilities + safety-record over the prototype development phase.

Zero-crash till date. Even better than Gripen.
 

ersakthivel

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1000 lb means 450 kg.


So 1000 pound overweight means just 450 Kg overweight. What I said was at the most 600 Kg. By quoting 400 kg ,You are weakening your case.

And weight reduction efforts are on to reduce this even further.
I will repeated it twice already, and i will repeat this again, even if the empty weight of nlca and lca was equal, ncla would never be able to reach stores capacity of lca. so the difference will cut into its weapon stores capacity. the additional empty weight of nlca will result in further deduction in external stores.

You should not have to repeat a factually incorrect statement again again and again and expect it to be true.

Even with few 100 KG less weapon load than the IAF LCA mk-1 , The NLCA is hundred times better than the present fighter Sea harrier IN has.

And it is fully capable of carrier operation. So your claim that LCA mk-1 is unfit for naval combat falls flat on it's face.

Because by the time NLCA is fully developed ADA would be very close to navalizing LCA mk-2. SO the IN will have 95 percent of it's NLCA fleet in mk-2 version.

That does not mean your lie that NLCA mk-1 is unfit for naval combat will become true. Do you know what is the meaning of supersonic missile launch. Sea harrier does not have this basic function needed in any 4th gen fighter. Still it served IN well for decades.

So no foll would call NLCA mk-1 is unfit for naval combat with no proof worth the paper written on it and expecting all the members to believe in unnamed naval officers quote in a website.
Just give me a source for your 3 tonnes of weapons store for nlca. anything source, anything with numbers in it, anything which is not guesswork.

You are the genius who claimed NLCA mk-1 won't carry any meaning full load. IN and ADA think that 4 NLCA mk-1 combat versions they have ordered are good enough with whatever load they can carry after weight reduction.
Source? can you write any sentence without supposing or guessing things?



Yes, the NLCA is better than harrier. Is that something to be proud of for you? Harrier was inducted in RN before LCA program even started. It is capable of performing VOTL/STOVL It proved its mettle in Falkland wars. Even US uses harrier for usmc wing. And now when it is 35 years, you come chest thumping and say that a new kid on the block is better than the harrier.

US used Harrier for decades on it's ships.

No one is chest thumping the superiority of NLCA over harrier. Since your stuffed self has proclaimed a judgement that NLCA won't be fit for naval combat with as usual false claims, I compared it with SEA harrier, which is going to be modernized with new missiles and radars in IN.


So when Sea harriers are still fit to be modernized and operated , how come just 4 NLCA mk-1s become unfit to land on a carrier?
Let me ask you a question, why do people like you always feel to compare tejas with aircraft like mig 21 and sea harrier. Why didn't you compare it with other contemporary carrier based A/C such as F35c, RAfale-m, and mig-29k. because everyone knows where mk1 stands when compared to other modern aircraft. thats why the easier solution is to compare it with 5 decade old aircraft and feel good about yourself.

Because people like you false claims based on spurious sources. And When I counter it ask me to give a source for NLCA's store capacity.

WHy do people like you repeatedly rake up stupid lies as truth and put words into the mouth of other posters expecting your mad claims to be true?What is your gain? In has only ordered 4 NLCA mk-1 for combat role. And no one knows what will be the final empty weight and what will be it's weapon load capacity.

Then why are you beating your chest here?

Otherwise why should I compare NLCA mk-1 with F-22 and sea harrier?
Anyways don't bother replying to the post, i will away from the forum for some time. will not be replying to you.
Thanks for your absence.Next time make some claim with some source with a wee bit more understanding of the matters at hand.
 

sayareakd

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बाज का सा झपट्टा, गिद्ध सी निगाहें, चीते की फुर्ती और शेर का हौसला... इस सबको मिलाकर बना एक फौलादी परिंदा जिसका नाम है तेजस। (यह एपिसोड मूल रूप से मार्च,2011 में प्रसारित किया गया था, और अब इसे 'एनडीटीवी क्लासिक' के तहत दोबारा दिखाया गया है)

वतन के रखवाले : एक फौलादी परिंदा 'तेजस' Video: NDTV.com
 
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