ADA Tejas (LCA) News and Discussions

[Defcon 1]

Flight update

LCA-Tejas has completed 1951 Test Flights Successfully. (07-Dec-2012).
(TD1-233,TD2-305,PV1-242,PV2-222,PV3-348,LSP1-74,LSP2-238,PV5-36,LSP3-78,LSP4-56,LSP5-109,LSP7-6,NP1-4)

From
LCA-Tejas has completed 1949 Test Flights Successfully. (29-Nov-2012).
(TD1-233,TD2-305,PV1-242,PV2-222,PV3-348,LSP1-74,LSP2-238,PV5-36,LSP3-77,LSP4-56,LSP5-109,LSP7-5,NP1-4)

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Navy, eager for Tejas, placing orders for 8 naval fighters

Earlier this year, then naval chief, Admiral Nirmal Verma, lamented the delay in building the naval version of the Tejas Light Combat Aircraft (LCA). Last week, the current naval chief, Admiral DK Joshi, declared that the navy wanted the Tejas more urgently than any fighter aircraft from abroad. Until these vessels are ready for flight deck operations, naval pilots will train at a new Shore-Based Test Facility (SBTF) in Goa, which replicates the dimensions of an aircraft carrier deck, including the arrestor wires that bring the aircraft to a halt in just 90 metres. The SBTF also has the optical landing system that aircraft carriers have, which allows a pilot to "aim" his fighter at the arrestor wire on the carrier deck. Only after extensive testing at the SBTF will the Naval LCA attempt to land and take off from an actual aircraft carrier.ADA confirms that the Goa facility is close to completion. "We want the SBTF to be a national facility that would be available for training (naval pilots) on a wide range of aircraft. So it is built to be used by the naval LCA as well as by the MiG-29K," says Commodore CD Balaji, who directs the Naval LCA project at ADA.

Broadsword: Navy, eager for Tejas, placing orders for 8 naval fighters

 

[uss]

India wants license to produce Iron Dome : Israeli Media

India still negotiating on development of AESA radar with Israel & also for some Laser guided bombs

"The list of future projects discussed included a plan to develop aircraft-launched micro-satellites, and plans to develop laser-guided missiles and munitions. According to an Israeli defense source, other possible plans include specialized radar systems, such as an airborne system for Indian-made light combat planes, and a long-range system for tracking ballistic missiles. At this stage, it is not known whether the parties reached a final agreement during Shani's visit about which projects will go ahead."

India wants license to produce Iron Dome : Israeli Media | idrw.org

 

[SpArK]

GE finally gets LCA engine order​

The order, placed in October-end, is only for eight GE F-414 engines meant for design, development and integration onto the Light Combat Aircraft Mk II airframe. India had decided to order 99 of these engines in 2010.

Two years after the announcement of the selection of the General Electric (GE) F414 engine over the EuroJet EJ-200 engine for the Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) Mk II program, India has finally signed the contract for their procurement.

However, this order, placed in October-end, is only for eight engines meant for design, development and integration onto the Mk II airframe.

After media reports in the last year repeatedly declared the conclusion of a contract for the stipulated 99 engines to be imminent, the government has finally chosen to place the initial order.

Sources in the defense ministry say the delay has been largely due to uncertainty over the feasibility of the LCA Mk II aircraft, with questions over the possibility of the integration of a new engine into the aircraft, and also the schedule for the completion of a satisfactory naval variant, the first iteration of which was denied certification by the Center for Military Airworthiness and Certification (CEMILAC), last March. Besides the integration of the new engine, the naval version will also require a more robust airframe and undercarriage, among other features.

"Why would we order engines only to have them gather dust in a warehouse, if it doesn't work out?" asked one official, who also added, "You can't just stick the new engine into the airframe."

While the cost of the complete order for 99 engines was said to be around USD 600 million, the value of the order for the initial eight engines is not known.

This two-year delay in ordering the engines for the LCA Mk II is being seen as an indication of the confidence of the government in the LCA Mk II program.

The former chief of the Indian Air Force (IAF), Air Chief Marshal Pradeep Vasant Naik had referred to the LCA Mk I as a mere advancement on the MiG-21 in January, 2011. The Initial Operational Clearance (IOC) of the Mk I aircraft has been delayed to the third quarter of 2013 and the Final Operational Clearance (FOC) is expected only in 2015.

The stipulated period for design, development and integration of the new engine onto the Mk II aircraft is 48 months, or four years.

Also interestingly, the Defense Research and Development Organization (DRDO) laboratory, Gas Turbine Research Establishment, (GTRE) is planning to integrate the indigenous Kaveri engine onto an Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) LCA Tejas Mk I test aircraft over the next year. Neither the purpose of this test integration, nor the costs involved are clear at this point.

DRDO has earlier proposed the engine for powering Unmanned Aerial Vehicles (UAVs) and trains.

As of March, 2012, India had budgeted INR 11845.20 crore (INR 118.45 billion or USD 2.1 billion) for the LCA program, of which INR 5051.46 crore (INR 50.5146 billion or USD 900 million) had been spent.


GE finally gets LCA engine order | StratPost

 

[manishhot]

Its good decision, it show they didn't believe in drdo and mark 2 will be as crap as mark 1. Instead of developing mark 2 India must buy gripen

 

[ersakthivel]

Tejas fighter jet won't be combat-ready before 2015 - Times Of India
the above article is a classic example of reporting that don't highlight the milestones or what has been achieved in tejas program .
What is missing in this piece is
1.funding for TDs released only in 1993.

Only two TDs were built and flew to prove the fly by wire tech and composites and glass cockpit tech as per the 1983 ASR of 1.5 mach top speed at service ceiling,with 4 ton weapon pylon load with an air inlet corresponding to 80 kn thrust engine.

After that the IAF received longer range BVrs with higher weight from Russia.So accordingly wings were strengthened leading to extra 1 ton weight in 2004 and the Pvs( for mk-1)meaning the start of development of mk-1 rolled out in 2004 only.

That is the reason for mach 1.6 top speed till LSP-6 .Lsp-7 and 8 and SPs will have inlet modification to cater to higher thrust engine.

Mk-2 with 5 ton weapon load with increased range and higher thrust to weight ratio with mach 2plus top speeds at service ceiling will roll out in 2015.

Even mk-1s can be upgraded close to mk-2 status in upgrades with higher powered engine and redesigned air intake.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Rona Dhona as always..

 

[ersakthivel]

Auxillary air intakes are clearly visible in the above photos designed for higher airflow to reach higher top speeds with higher thrust engines.

So tejas mk-1 won't be stuck at mach 1.6 with lower powered engine and smaller air intake designed for the 1.5 mach top speed of 1983 ASR forever.

What is so comical about indian defence reporting is that no one will point out these things with an authoritative view from experts.
What we always get is some colored interpretation of some reporter with a jaundiced eye as factual report.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

BVR Astra missile warming up for aircraft release in 2013

Bangalore/Hyderabad: India is all geared up to conduct the release flight trails (firing) of the beyond visual range air-to-air missile (BVR-AAM) Astra, being developed by the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO). Sources tell Express that the the missile configuration has been re-engineered after going through five ballistic and 13 control flights. With all its subsystems being qualified for airworthiness it will be ready for release flight trials for the first time from a Sukhoi (Su-30MKI) fighter during the first quarter of 2013.In the meantime, captive flight trials (a total of eight) have been conducted on the aircraft in 2010-11 for establishing the structural integrity of the aircraft with the missiles for the complete flight envelope. The Rs 955-crore project was sanctioned in 2004 to develop two versions (Mk-1: 50 km & Mk-II: 100 km) for the Indian Air Force (IAF).

Tarmak007 -- A bold blog on Indian defence: BVR Astra missile warming up for aircraft release in 2013; re-engineered weapon to undergo more captive flight trails in 2012

 

[sayareakd]

Sources tell Express that the the missile configuration has been re-engineered after going through five ballistic and 13 control flights.

..............................:thumb:

 

[ersakthivel]

Sources in the defense ministry say the delay has been largely due to uncertainty over the feasibility of the LCA Mk II aircraft, with questions over the possibility of the integration of a new engine into the aircraft, and also the schedule for the completion of a satisfactory naval variant, the first iteration of which was denied certification by the Center for Military Airworthiness and Certification (CEMILAC), last March. Besides the integration of the new engine, the naval version will also require a more robust airframe and undercarriage, among other features.

"Why would we order engines only to have them gather dust in a warehouse, if it doesn't work out?" asked one official, who also added, "You can't just stick the new engine into the airframe."

this is what we call motivated reporting.Who is the "SOURCE"?
1.Does he knows more than the IAF ,which gave orders for 6 squadrons of tejas?
2.Does he knows more than the Navy which set aside 900 cr funds from it's own funds for LCA program?
3.can he explain with his deep technological insight what are the insurmountable challenges in putting GE-414 in mk-2?
A big NO.
There is nothing earth shaking in the delayed order.
Because mk-2 will gather steam only after a couple of years, so there is no urgency to commit 90 plus engine orders in advance.
Also for grippen NG fans---The sad truth is the first developmental flight of GRIPPEN NG is expected only in 2017,with landing gear redesign and more extensive engineering redesign than tejas mk-2.
That too only if further overseas orders beside the contentious swiss order is received.otherwise there is no money or reason for development of NG.
So we can understand the desperation of grippen NG fans for IAF order for grippen.

tejas mk-2 will have the interface for METEOR missile along with indigenous ASEA option,with lower RCS than grippen NG.
then why are people advocating grippen NG for IAF?
'

 

[Defcon 1]

BVR Astra missile warming up for aircraft release in 2013

Tarmak007 -- A bold blog on Indian defence: BVR Astra missile warming up for aircraft release in 2013; re-engineered weapon to undergo more captive flight trails in 2012

Mk-1 only 50km? That means we won't have a true indigenous BVR missile before the end of this decade

 

[ersakthivel]

http://www.lca-tejas.org/engine.html

The details of mk-1 engines in limited sereis production and serial production are in the above site.
Quote from the above website.
F404-GE-IN20 To Power Tejas Mk-1

In early July 2002 orders for the 8 Limited Series Production (LSP) was given to HAL and Funds were released to set up a Assembly Line for them, Second round of Negotiation With GE started for the F-404 Engines and GE offered more improved Variant of F-404 which is known has F404-GE-IN20, this engine included features such has advanced Full Authority Digital Electronic Control (FADEC), Higher MTBO and Better Thrust. ADA awarded General Electric a $105 million contract in February 2004 for development engineering and production of 17 F404-GE-IN20 engines. ADA took delivery of its first -IN20 engines in 2007. These engines will be used to power low rate (also called limited) production Tejas/LCA aircraft and first two operational Squadrons of Tejas in IAF
Specifications

Dimensions: Diameter 890 mm, Length 3.9 m

Weights: Max Weight 1,035 kg (2,282 lb)

Engine/s Performance: Thrust 20,200 lb (9,163 kg)
The LSP engines for tejas---- ------------F404-GE-402---------------Thrust------------19,000 lbf with afterburner.
Tejas SP engines tejas-mk-1 -------------F404-GE-IN20 -------------Thrust ----------20,200 lb (9,163 kg)
http://www.indiastrategic.in/topstories136.htm

Based on the F404-GE-402, the F404-GE-IN20 is the highestrated F404 model and includes a higher-flow fan, increased thrust, a Full Authority Digital Electronic Control (FADEC) system, singlecrystal turbine blades and a variety of single-engine features, says Blair. The F404-GE-IN20 succeeds F404-F2J3 development engines used for nearly 900 flights, cumulatively covering nine engines.

So the SP versions of tejas --mk-1(which is ordered by IAF) will have a bit higher thrust versions than the LSP version of mk-1.

So achieving higher top speeds at service ceiling and sea level and higher AOA will be possible coupled with auxilary airintake or redesigned air intake.

 

[Patriot]

BVR Astra missile warming up for aircraft release in 2013





Tarmak007 -- A bold blog on Indian defence: BVR Astra missile warming up for aircraft release in 2013; re-engineered weapon to undergo more captive flight trails in 2012

Kunal Bhai, this is the last update we have received one year back. Is any news about any test conducted in 2012.

 

[ersakthivel]

General Electric F404 - Scramble

F404-GE-IN20

The F404-GE-IN20 is a variant of F404-GE-402 engine designed to meet the requirements of the Indian Air Force and Navy for the HAI Tejas, formerly LCA, combat aircraft. Modifications introduced into the 83.2 kN rated -IN20 engine include redundant features, an advanced Full Authority Digital Electronic Control (FADEC) and longer service life. First flight on Tejas was June 19, 2008.

http://www.dutchops.com/ac_data/engines/f404.html

F404-GE-402: The -402 is an Enhanced Performance Engine (EPE) that falls into the 79kN (17,700 lb st) class, combining a 2,000 hour hot section with up to 25 per cent increase in thrust, which is achieved through higher temperature, increased fan speed and improved design and materials in the turbines and afterburner. This version has been in production since 1991 specifically for the F/A-18C/D models. First flight took place on 19 September 1991 and was performed by a Kuwaiti Hornet.

So the SP versions of tejas --mk-1(which is ordered by IAF) will have a bit higher(4 kn excess thrust ) thrust versions( F404-GE-IN20) than the LSP version (F404-GE-402)of mk-1.

So achieving higher top speeds at service ceiling and sea level and higher AOA will be possible coupled with auxilary airintake or redesigned air intake

 

[Kunal Biswas]

As of now, no, but according to report it`s ready for release flight trials will be on 2013..

Kunal Bhai, this is the last update we have received one year back. Is any news about any test conducted in 2012.

 

[sayareakd]

Mk-1 only 50km? That means we won't have a true indigenous BVR missile before the end of this decade

before you run, first you need to take baby steps then walk and finally run. 50 km is good start, plus with the experience in missile it wont take lot of time making it to 100 km.

 

[Decklander]

AFAIK, the IN20 engine is designed for 90KN thrust but it is starved for air at low and high AOA speeds and fails to produce even 84KN thrust in such regimes. To overcome these air starvation, Aux intakes have been added with slight improvements to inlet duct to ensure that IN20 achieves its designed thrust.
The f414EPE engine even if derated to 98KN will require a bigger intake and inlet duct. Military engines fall under low bypass category and F414EPE engine has a bypass ratio of 0.4 compared with 0.3 of M88 engine. This means that engine bypasses 40% of air that it sucks to cool the engine or for other services. So as you increase the trust of this engine, the air intake will need to be increased substantially.

 

[p2prada]

Mk-1 only 50km? That means we won't have a true indigenous BVR missile before the end of this decade

50Km pushes it into the BVR regime. Both MICA and Derby are 50Km class missiles.

The Astra Mk2 will be ready early too.

 

[JBH22]

another white elephant in the long list of failed projects