ADA Tejas (LCA) News and Discussions

Which role suits LCA 'Tejas' more than others from following options?

  • Interceptor-Defend Skies from Intruders.

    Votes: 342 51.3%
  • Airsuperiority-Complete control of the skies.

    Votes: 17 2.5%
  • Strike-Attack deep into enemy zone.

    Votes: 24 3.6%
  • Multirole-Perform multiple roles.

    Votes: 284 42.6%

  • Total voters
    667
Status
Not open for further replies.

rahulrds1

New Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2009
Messages
800
Likes
1,268
Good information about How Composites are useful as a Stealth Material.

Many modern military aircraft incorporate some type of surface treatment that provides radar cross section reduction to thereby transform these aircraft into "low observable" or "stealth" airplanes. Generally, these treatments employ materials that absorb or conduct incident radar energy, and typically include adhesive bonding or spray-paint-like processes for material adherence. Where materials (e.g. caulks, paints, adhesives) requiring a wet application are used, inherent undesirable requirements include surface preparation, mixing, cure time, presence of volatiles and hazardous materials, use of personal protection devices, and acquisition of special application equipment. In addition to being quite inconvenient, the application of these materials requires an inordinate amount of time at both the manufacturing event and at any repair event in the field. Correspondingly, because of these time factors, labor expenses escalate significantly.

Electromagnetic radiation absorbent/shielding materials and structures are well-known. Such electromagnetic radiation absorbent/shielding materials and structures are commonly used in electromagnetic capability/electromagnetic interference (EMC/EMI) test cells to eliminate reflection and interference during testing. Electromagnetic radiation absorbent materials and structures are also utilized in electromagnetic anechoic chambers for testing high frequency radar, in antennas, and in Low Observable (LO) structures.

Radar absorbing material (RAM) currently in military and commercial use are typically composed of high concentrations of iron powders in a polymer matrix. These materials are both very heavy and very costly, two key limitations to their adoption for many applications. Various attempts to overcome these problems have involved the creation of artificial dielectrics, including ones based on conductive fiber-filled composites.

Composite materials have a wide variety of commercial and industrial uses, ranging from aircraft and automobile to computer parts. Composite materials have many advantages which make them attractive to different industries. For instance, composite materials can reduce heat transfer, resist conduction of electricity, limit reflection of radar waves, are flexible but strong, and can be fairly easily formed into complex shapes during manufacturing. Some examples of commercial applications include the complex shapes of certain automobiles, airplanes, and boats which would be difficult to form with metal materials. Another important use of composite materials is the creation of stealth aircraft which minimize their radar cross section through the use of radar absorbing composite materials that form the majority of the aircraft's structure.

One example of an aircraft made largely from composite materials is the F-22 Raptor, the world's premier tactical aircraft, designed and manufactured by Lockheed Martin Tactical Aircraft Systems. The Raptor's composite parts are formed with flexible graphite fibers, called a ply, that are impregnated with epoxy or BMI resins which harden when subjected to the application of heat. The uncured plies are placed on tools, each tool corresponding to a composite part of the Raptor. Thus, when the graphite resin mixture hardens over the tool, the composite part is formed with the proper shape.

A number of production techniques are available for forming composite parts. Again, using the Raptor as an example, once the plies are placed over the tool, a vacuum bag is used to hold the plies securely to the tool during curing of the resin. The vacuum bag forces the material to the tool and prevents the formation of bubbles and other material deformities. The tools are then placed in an autoclave for heating. An autoclave is essentially a large oven with the ability to precisely control the thermal energy applied to tools during curing of composite parts. An autoclave operator can monitor and control the amount of thermal energy applied to the tools to maintain a predetermined heating rate of the composite parts.

soruce : www_globalsecurity.org/military/world/stealth-aircraft-material.htm
 
Last edited:

ersakthivel

Brilliance
New Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2011
Messages
7,029
Likes
8,764
Country flag
Good information about How Composites is useful as a Stealth Materials to reduce RCS

Many modern military aircraft incorporate some type of surface treatment that provides radar cross section reduction to thereby transform these aircraft into "low observable" or "stealth" airplanes. Generally, these treatments employ materials that absorb or conduct incident radar energy, and typically include adhesive bonding or spray-paint-like processes for material adherence. Where materials (e.g. caulks, paints, adhesives) requiring a wet application are used, inherent undesirable requirements include surface preparation, mixing, cure time, presence of volatiles and hazardous materials, use of personal protection devices, and acquisition of special application equipment. In addition to being quite inconvenient, the application of these materials requires an inordinate amount of time at both the manufacturing event and at any repair event in the field. Correspondingly, because of these time factors, labor expenses escalate significantly.

Electromagnetic radiation absorbent/shielding materials and structures are well-known. Such electromagnetic radiation absorbent/shielding materials and structures are commonly used in electromagnetic capability/electromagnetic interference (EMC/EMI) test cells to eliminate reflection and interference during testing. Electromagnetic radiation absorbent materials and structures are also utilized in electromagnetic anechoic chambers for testing high frequency radar, in antennas, and in Low Observable (LO) structures.

Radar absorbing material (RAM) currently in military and commercial use are typically composed of high concentrations of iron powders in a polymer matrix. These materials are both very heavy and very costly, two key limitations to their adoption for many applications. Various attempts to overcome these problems have involved the creation of artificial dielectrics, including ones based on conductive fiber-filled composites. While successful in many ways, these composites are beset by their own technical difficulties. Uniformity and consistency, critical attributes for a successful RAM, are difficult to achieve with fiber-filled composites as mixing and distribution of the fibers is opposed by the natural tendency of the fibers to clump. Also, there is not as great a cost reduction as expected with fiber-filled composites.

Composite materials have a wide variety of commercial and industrial uses, ranging from aircraft and automobile to computer parts. Composite materials have many advantages which make them attractive to different industries. For instance, composite materials can reduce heat transfer, resist conduction of electricity, limit reflection of radar waves, are flexible but strong, and can be fairly easily formed into complex shapes during manufacturing. Some examples of commercial applications include the complex shapes of certain automobiles, airplanes, and boats which would be difficult to form with metal materials. Another important use of composite materials is the creation of stealth aircraft which minimize their radar cross section through the use of radar absorbing composite materials that form the majority of the aircraft's structure.

One example of an aircraft made largely from composite materials is the F-22 Raptor, the world's premier tactical aircraft, designed and manufactured by Lockheed Martin Tactical Aircraft Systems. The Raptor's composite parts are formed with flexible graphite fibers, called a ply, that are impregnated with epoxy or BMI resins which harden when subjected to the application of heat. The uncured plies are placed on tools, each tool corresponding to a composite part of the Raptor. Thus, when the graphite resin mixture hardens over the tool, the composite part is formed with the proper shape.

A number of production techniques are available for forming composite parts. Again, using the Raptor as an example, once the plies are placed over the tool, a vacuum bag is used to hold the plies securely to the tool during curing of the resin. The vacuum bag forces the material to the tool and prevents the formation of bubbles and other material deformities. The tools are then placed in an autoclave for heating. An autoclave is essentially a large oven with the ability to precisely control the thermal energy applied to tools during curing of composite parts. An autoclave operator can monitor and control the amount of thermal energy applied to the tools to maintain a predetermined heating rate of the composite parts.

soruce : www_globalsecurity.org/military/world/stealth-aircraft-material.htm
Some amount of radar waves deflection along with this absorbtion is used for stealth thats what it is commonly said.
can they emit nil reflection with 100 percent absorbtion?
can they absorb all radar waves with no reflection for VHF and L band?
They are very effective against x band, but all bands?
Do clarify
 

Kunal Biswas

Member of the Year 2011
New Member
Joined
May 26, 2010
Messages
31,122
Likes
41,041
FOC & IOC-1/2 on MOD report..

FOC & IOC-1/2 on MOD report..





According to 2011 report when IOC-1 was given, It was well known that IOC-2 will be given latter..

----------------------------------------------------------



This is according to 2012 MOD report, LCA will be fully operational by End of 2012, IOC-2 have little significance as per report..
 

ersakthivel

Brilliance
New Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2011
Messages
7,029
Likes
8,764
Country flag
First of all I never claimed any seniority over you. All I am saying is that I am not stupid.
1. How do you know that LCA will always accompanied by AWACS?? we will have 15 AWACS in 2022 and they will be shared among 6 LCA squadrons, 7 Rafale Squadrons, 3 Mig 29 sqdrns and 2 Mirage sqdrns. So, either prove that IAF has specific doctrine of sending LCA with AWACS only or get lost.

All fighter groups have their own ew and awacs aircraft support in modern airwarfare. The duty of awacs is to safeguard the airspace ,not to be divided among sukhois and rafales .even if awacsis not available, ew crafts will be there.
2. Look man I don't want to correct you about the strike fighter issue. Every knows MKI is a fighter bomber. You saying otherwise won't change that. If you start calling an elephant a lion, it doesn't become a lion.
The sukhoi mated with brahmos will do strike ,that's what I meant.I never said sukhois is not a good air to air fighter.This role of sukhoi is called strike.During those rolls sukhoi can defend itself.Same is the case with LCA as it can do strike and air to air in albeit in limited range.
3. For RCS of Gripen, http://www.f-16.net/f-16_forum_viewtopic-t-1029-postdays-0-postorder-asc-start-30.html
According to that link grippen has 1/2 of mirage's rcs. P2prada says LCA has a third of mirage's RCS?.Do you agree?.Then how come rafale which was designed 10 years before LCA can have lesser RCS than LCA?
By the way, Do you have proof that LCA's RCS will be as low as you claim it to be.
It is generally decided by the technique makers use and comparision with other aircrafts.Only for stealth aircrafts people can claim ultra low RCS.FOR other crafts RCS will vary in different angles.Size of the craft and canards do matter in RCS calculations.
4. About the Mirage upgrade. Ok then please tell me what was the other option that airforce had other than upgrading its mirages regardless of the cost.
for each updated mirage with no increase in emngine power IAF is spending more than the cost of LCA .That's what I wanted to point out.SO increasing the residual life of mirages economical than inducting brand new Mk-I's which can be upgraded with tech from AMCA

.I dont question the mirage updae.In comparision the ever upgradable 40 MK-'['s induction and training on them for new tactics will have their own value.In the same way IAF honed their tactics on 40 un weaponised SUKHOIs for 10 years and later spent them for weaponisation.DO you think it was wasted time?/QUOTE]

5. How do you that IAF's consent is not required for inducting LCA?? Proof?? Oh wait, you never come with proof, you only come with fantasies. MKIII will only be inducted if IAF needs it, not because DRDO wants to have something to show for 29 years of work.

Advanced weapon systems like nuclear bomb ,N subs ,Missiles are not built according to any one's requirement.They are built with cutting edge tech of the time. AS far as LCA achieves it's design parameters and at cutting edge tech,the IAF can't say NO.Especially when they are spending billions on same tech level RAFALE?
Please confirm to the forum that your statement IAF hasn't ordered extra 20 MK-Is is true or not?
 
Last edited:

SajeevJino

Long walk
New Member
Joined
Feb 21, 2012
Messages
6,017
Likes
3,364
Country flag
India's air force is seeking to equip its LCA jet fighter with an Israeli-produced radar

Will the Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) being developed in India be equipped with an advanced radar system developed in Israel? The chances for that have increased in the recent days. Sources in India have informed that the Indian Air Force which is acquiring the LCA is interested in having it equipped with an AESA radar. Such a radar has been developed and is being produced by Elta, a subsidiary of Israel Aerospace Industries, which is considered among the most advanced of its kind throughout the world.



While the Indian LCA project is suffering from a 15-year delay beyond the original schedules, it is nevertheless continuing. The 2nd prototype is expected to take flight only next year. The Defence Research & Development Organisation (DRDO) at India's Ministry of Defense is developing an electronic scanning radar, but the Indian sources said that the developers will need foreign assistance. The aircraft is equipped with a US engine after the engine developed for it in India did not provide the necessary thrust. At this stage, India ordered 200 LCA MK2 aircraft - the advanced version of the aircraft - from the Indian defense industry.

AESA radars are considered the most advanced radars for jet fighters, and they improve the aircraft's ability to detect aerial targets. In the past, the Ministry of Defense has prevented Elta from offering the new radar for export, but this was changed since several manufacturers, including US manufacturers, are offering them around the world.

According to the sources, the close military procurement relations between Israel and India allow for a good possibility of cooperation in developing the Indian radar that will be installed on the LCA.

An Israeli Radar in India's Jet Fighter?
 

ersakthivel

Brilliance
New Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2011
Messages
7,029
Likes
8,764
Country flag
The aircraft is of delta platform design with shoulder-mounted delta wings. The aircraft has a fin but no horizontal tail. Lightweight materials including aluminium and lithium alloys, titanium alloys and carbon composites have been used in the construction. The wing structure includes composite spares and ribs with a carbon fibre-reinforced plastic skin.

The National Aerospace Laboratories (NAL), based in Bangalore, has designed and is responsible for the manufacture of the fin and the rudder and the construction of the aircraft fuselage.

SO it is not as if the americans and russians alone have monopoly over titanium alloys. They were used wherever neccasary on LCA TEJAS also
 

ersakthivel

Brilliance
New Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2011
Messages
7,029
Likes
8,764
Country flag
All airforces in the world have a mix of both single engined fighters and twin engined fighters. SO there is no need to post that LCA is obsolete because it is single engined. Then 80percent of the world's are obsolete. Even in stealth both twin and single engined are developed side by side.F-35 twice in no than F-22.That will be the trend in future too.
 
Last edited:

ersakthivel

Brilliance
New Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2011
Messages
7,029
Likes
8,764
Country flag
F414-EPE

The "Enhanced Performance Engine" or "EPE" variant, includes a new core and a redesigned fan and compressor. The new engine version offers up to a 20 percent thrust boost, which increases its thrust to 26,400 pounds (120 kN), giving it an almost 11:1 thrust/weight ratio.


F414-GE-INS6

India's Aeronautical Development Agency selected the F414-GE-INS6 engine to power the Mk II version of the HAL Tejas Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) for the Indian Air Force. 99 engines were ordered in October 2010. The engine is to produce more thrust than previous F414 versions. It features a Full Authority Digital Electronic Control (FADEC) system.[21] The F414-GE-INS6 is to have six stages. The engines are to be delivered by 2013.

So if F414-GE-INS6 produce equivalent thrust of F414-EPE ,it will be ahuge boost in TWR for LCA mk-II and will drastically improve it's weapon load and STR?
Is that possible?
 

ersakthivel

Brilliance
New Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2011
Messages
7,029
Likes
8,764
Country flag
"The naval variant of the LCA will require the F414 Enhanced Performance Engine [EPE] providing up to 26,500 pounds of thrust, a 20-percent boost," the official said.

The problem is, the F414 EPE is still under development!

Boeing is developing a F414 derivative with an all new core that will pack 20% more thrust for Super Hornet F/A-18E/F clients.

The improvements would increase the F414 thrust rating from 22,000lbs to 26,600lbs and dramatically improve the fighter's take-off performance.

The US Navy sought the new engine core to reduce susceptibility to FOD and improve SFC.

The F414 EPE retains the dimensions of F414-INS6 but sucks in more air. In the Super Hornet F/A-18E/F this is not a problem because its existing air in-take is large enough to accommodate the increased airflow.

So will EPE be ready and available by 2015 for tejas? If it is technologically available the GOI can ask them in place for the old ones.Isn't it possible?
 

ersakthivel

Brilliance
New Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2011
Messages
7,029
Likes
8,764
Country flag
Still under discussion is whether to use the Enhanced Performance Engine (EPE) version of the F414, which could be configured to deliver more thrust, better fuel efficiency or a combination of the two for the grippen E/F.
according to

Swedes And Swiss Move Toward Joint Gripen

If then will it be also available for LCA tejas MK-LL which too will fly at the same time as grippen -E/F?

Considering the massive amount of military equipment india buy's from USA like APACHE,GLOBE MASTERS,P-81 POSEDIOM MARITIME PATROL,NOW LIGHT HOWITZARS THROU FMS ROUTE ,wont INDIAN government use it's influence with US for this engine?
 
Last edited:

ersakthivel

Brilliance
New Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2011
Messages
7,029
Likes
8,764
Country flag
According to Contemporay Fighter Aircraft Engines Compared - IDP Sentinel


General Electric has not released the SFC figures for F414-GE-400. The figures given are for the F404. It is likely F414 SFC is better than that of F404.

Notable characteristics of the F414 include 170 lb/second airflow, engine change in under 30 minutes, interchangeable left and right engine installation and no functional check requirement flight after engine change.

The F414EPE features a new core that dramatically improves the Super Hornet's take off performance.

The US Navy sought the new engine core to reduce susceptibility to FOD and improve SFC.

"The 'enhanced durability engine' becomes the 'enhanced performance engine' when you put the fan on it," says Bob Gower, Boeing vice president for F/A-18E/F.

The F414 EPE would not entail any modification to the Super Hornet airframe.
Highest-rated GE F414 = GE F414 EPE = ~118kN.

SO the LCA mk-II will not need any major modification for this engine as SUPER HORNET doesn't need any modifications either.
 
Last edited:

ersakthivel

Brilliance
New Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2011
Messages
7,029
Likes
8,764
Country flag
Highest-rated GE F414 = GE F414 EPE = ~118kN.
Moreover, the Super Hornet's two General Electric F414-GE-400 engines are a model of performance and reliability. Should an engine need to be replaced, Super Hornet ground crews can change one out in as little as 30 minutes. From a growth perspective, the enhanced performance engine (EPE) is a derivative of the existing F414 engine currently flown in US Navy Super Hornets.

Consistent with the Super Hornet philosophy of ensuring long-term combat viability and survivability against modern and evolving threats through continuous technology insertion, F414 EPE technology upgrades are currently in development with GE Aviation. The EPE takes advantage of this inherent airframe growth capability through enhancements to the fan and core, resulting in a 20% increase in thrust with no changes to aircraft structure or outer moldline.
The above are the words of Dr.VIVKE LAL vice president ,Boeing defence ,space and security.
 

ersakthivel

Brilliance
New Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2011
Messages
7,029
Likes
8,764
Country flag
Dassault Rafale #14 - News & Discussion - Page 6 - Key Publishing Ltd Aviation Forums
some discussion regarding GTRE-SNECNA collabaration on this thread.It seems negotiations keep on forever. The IAF first shot it down ,then there is some news that they cleared it after a joint committe of GTRE ,IAF,ADA went through the proposal.

Now it seems to be on track ACORDING TO A.K.ANTONY'S STATEMENT IN PARLIMEANT.

What is the the current status?

International Super Hornet [Archive] - Key Publishing Ltd Aviation Forums

Some discussion in this forum suggesting that the decision on full development of EPE depends upon GRIPPEN NG orders and LCA MK-II orders.
Because they wont invest in new engine development without confirmed orders from others.But now it seems that there are confirmed orders from both LCA Mk-II and GRIPPEN NG are on the cards.

So does that explain BOEING chief's statement that GE-414 variant on LCA mk-II will be the highest thrust variant of GE-414 family without explicitly saying what will be the final thrust or whether it is EPE or what?
 
Last edited:

ersakthivel

Brilliance
New Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2011
Messages
7,029
Likes
8,764
Country flag
The F414 continues to be improved. By 2006 GE had tested an Enhanced Durability Engine (EDE) with an advanced core. The EDE engine provided a 15% thrust increase or longer life without the thrust increase.

It has a six-stage high-pressure compressor (down from 7 stages in the standard F414) and an advanced high-pressure turbine. The new compressor should be about 3% more efficient. The new high pressure turbine uses new materials and a new way of delivering cooling air to the blades. These changes should increase the turbine temperature capability by about 150 °F (66 °C). The EDE is designed to have better foreign object damage resistance, and a reduced fuel burn rate.

The EDE program continued with the testing of an advanced two stage blade-disk (Blisk) fan. The first advanced fan was produced using traditional methods, but future blisk fans will be made using translational friction welding with the goal of reducing manufacturing costs. GE says that this latest variant yields either a 20% increase in thrust or threefold increase in hot-section durability over the current F414.

This version is called the Enhanced Performance Engine (EPE) and was partially funded through the federal Integrated High Performance Turbine Engine Technology program.



As of 2009, the F414-EDE is currently being developed and tested, under a United States Navy contract for a reduced specific fuel consumption (SFC) demonstrator engine.

SO EPE is not a paper tiger as made out by some in this forum,it seems, it is already up and running,it seems not any deep R&D project way into the future.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Articles

Top