ADA Tejas (LCA) News and Discussions

Which role suits LCA 'Tejas' more than others from following options?

  • Interceptor-Defend Skies from Intruders.

    Votes: 342 51.3%
  • Airsuperiority-Complete control of the skies.

    Votes: 17 2.5%
  • Strike-Attack deep into enemy zone.

    Votes: 24 3.6%
  • Multirole-Perform multiple roles.

    Votes: 284 42.6%

  • Total voters
    667
Status
Not open for further replies.

ersakthivel

Brilliance
New Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2011
Messages
7,029
Likes
8,764
Country flag
Is that all you got from his article? Did you not notice he mentions thrust to weight figures too? Blind?



Again, not much. So, what low wing loading advantage were you talking off?

Let's not forget that the LCA has the highest drag with 3 drop tanks ..

The only time LCA will have low wing loading is when it carries only 4 BVR +2 WVR missiles, but this still comes with higher drag penalty and the time on station is only 30-45 minutes
Thats what I am banging into your head LCAA doesnot need all those drop tanks you are always carrying on your head. Please drop them. AS a point defence aircraft LCAA doesnot need to go on a world tour.You yourself has said in this forum that LCA need not fly more than 300 km to meet the enemy

The drag is only in your head and in twinblades head at lower altitude. ADA can easily correct LCA's drag. But however hard I drag you with CEILMAC paper ADA wont reduce the drag of you and twin blade.
 

ersakthivel

Brilliance
New Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2011
Messages
7,029
Likes
8,764
Country flag
p2prada says
The requirement is for jamesbond and brucee lee.
Then you should go to the movie theater with popcorn in your hand, not discussing stuff in combat theater

Hmm, let's see.

200 LCAs = 400 BVR missiles or even 800 BVR missiles.
You are not th IAF chief to give each LCA only 2 bvr missiles.
270 MKI = 2160 BVR missiles

with that 2160 bvrs it is visible to the enmy from far away .LCA's flying in front will multiply the SUKHOIs ew capability and radar
200 Rafale = 1600 BVR missiles
250 PAKFA = 1500 BVR missiles(stealth) or 3000-4000 BVR missiles(non stealth)

So, what do I choose?

You always choose forien stuff and ,jaguar upgrades ,and ask pilots to fly the BISON ,rather than LCA
Nonsense.



Not achieved.



A flying Bus.

Stupid comment
Everything.



A flying bus does nothing. LCA is a bygone story. A certain number will be acquired in order to support the industry. That's all.
All Jaguars and flying turkey F-35 and BIsons , are the future of military aviation perhaps. World will laugh at a country that produces ballistic missiles, nuclear reactors,and ABM system and BAllistic missile carrying nuclear submarines and just concluded 100 th space launch , upgrading JAGUARS and training it's would be fighter ACEs IN MIG-21 BISONS while having a 4th gen LCA-MK-I sitting in the lab. that too according to eccentric AERONAUTICAL genius like you. By the way can we export some of these BISONs and upgrade JAGURS and earn some foreign exchange as well.
You want the upgradation of jaguar industry and upgradation of BISON,MIRAGE indusrtry to thrive .Other than that there is no logic in your argument.
Everyone of them and the LCA's won't even know it. Heck Rafales kill Mirage-2000s back to Kingdom come. LCA Mk1 is inferior to Mirage-2000, go figure.
Only EW assisted BVRs kill fighters ,It doent matter from which pylon the missile was released.

Obvious.



That design purpose was supposed to have been achieved 5 to 10 years ago, not 5 to 10 years from now. LCA no longer has a place in the military. Museum and exhibitions, yes.
You ca sit in the museum even now. You are fully FOC qualified for that.
Learn from other militaries. Learn how junk was discarded regardless of nationalism and patriotism. Sweden's first military jet was junked in just 6 years.

You are teaching us to junk the independence of the nation. And pouring money into upgradation of all museum pieces and linind the pocket of foreign vendors
 
Last edited:

Kunal Biswas

Member of the Year 2011
New Member
Joined
May 26, 2010
Messages
31,122
Likes
41,041
India's First LCA Tejas Inducted in IAF
Bangalore, January 10, 2011


India's Light Combat Aircraft, Tejas, handed over to Indian Air Force by Defence Minister A K Antony after Initial Operational Clearance in Bangalore. This catapults India to a select club of nations that built a fighter plane from scratch.

Thanking the entire Tejas team and other agencies for the success of the project, the Defence Minister said that 20 Tejas aircraft will be inducted into Air Force by the end of this year.
Read more:
India’s First LCA Tejas Inducted in IAF | Aviation & Air Force News at DefenceTalk
http://www.hindustantimes.com/India...jas-flies-into-IAF-fleet/Article1-648453.aspx


As of now, only No. 45 Squadron (not flying already, but will be flying in a while. 45 was a MiG 21 squadron, until recently when they became the first to get the Tejas.)
They are flying..
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Kunal Biswas

Member of the Year 2011
New Member
Joined
May 26, 2010
Messages
31,122
Likes
41,041
India's First LCA Tejas Inducted in IAF
Bangalore, January 10, 2011


India's Light Combat Aircraft, Tejas, handed over to Indian Air Force by Defence Minister A K Antony after Initial Operational Clearance in Bangalore. This catapults India to a select club of nations that built a fighter plane from scratch.

Thanking the entire Tejas team and other agencies for the success of the project, the Defence Minister said that 20 Tejas aircraft will be inducted into Air Force by the end of this year.
Read more:
India’s First LCA Tejas Inducted in IAF | Aviation & Air Force News at DefenceTalk
LCA Tejas flies into IAF fleet - Hindustan Times


As of now, only No. 45 Squadron (not flying already, but will be flying in a while. 45 was a MiG 21 squadron, until recently when they became the first to get the Tejas.)
They are flying..
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Kunal Biswas

Member of the Year 2011
New Member
Joined
May 26, 2010
Messages
31,122
Likes
41,041
IAF team at HAL for speedy completion of projects

IAF has been lobbying to have one of its men at helm at the HAL to improve coordination and working efficiency between the two as several critical projects like the Light Combat Aircraft (LCA), Intermediate Jet Trainer (IJT), Fifth-Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA) are running behind schedule.

However, the Ministry of Defence did not heed to this demand and instead went ahead with the time tested formula by appointing a Chief selected by the Public Enterprise Selection Board (PESB).
:: Bharat-Rakshak.com - Indian Military News Headlines ::


You are absolutely right kunal!!!! HAL is a design cum production enterprise. it can not be run by ppl who run air taxi services,HR personnel,finance directors and other non technical ppl. The decision making process is so crucial it always creates a life and death situation. one good move takes the project to heavens and one wrong one takes the project to hell along with the ppl working on it. HAL is no maggie noodles affair and the man at the helms should be a dynamic technocrat, a motivator and a visionary, which kalam sahab can only fit in!!!!
 

EzioAltaïr

New Member
Joined
Aug 27, 2012
Messages
257
Likes
74
They are flying..
I know they are flying. But have they completely shifted to Tejas?

By the way, how many Tejas can HAL make in one year? I once read it's 10 a year, but that's too low right? That would mean 20 years for the 200 planes IAF requires.
 

Kunal Biswas

Member of the Year 2011
New Member
Joined
May 26, 2010
Messages
31,122
Likes
41,041
I know they are flying. But have they completely shifted to Tejas?,By the way, how many Tejas can HAL make in one year? I once read it's 10 a year, but that's too low right? That would mean 20 years for the 200 planes IAF requires.
Such information are not disclosed in Open Media, But a Squadron never moves half but full..

About HAL, I dont know but IAF as well as DRDO are concern about HAL..

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

IMHO they should move for private without wasting time, In the mean time let HAL modernise and solve internal issues..
 

EzioAltaïr

New Member
Joined
Aug 27, 2012
Messages
257
Likes
74
Mig-21s are being replaced by Su-30MKI, not LCAs.

LCA Mk1s are not being placed in Mig-21 dominated areas near the border. They are being placed in Sulur, so they are replacing NOTHING. The Mk1s will fly there until retirement comes and they will get a nice send off function.
Squadron 45 "The Flying Daggers", the first to be equipped with Tejas, and then to be posted in Sulur, has been until now, a MiG 21 squadron. Don't believe me? It was a MiG 21 from this squadron that shot down the Pakistani Atlantique.
 

EzioAltaïr

New Member
Joined
Aug 27, 2012
Messages
257
Likes
74
Such information are not disclosed in Open Media, But a Squadron never moves half but full..

About HAL, I dont know but IAF as well as DRDO are concern about HAL..

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

IMHO they should move for private without wasting time, In the mean time let HAL modernise and solve internal issues..
Exactly, they should move to private. Tata, Mahindra and Ashok Leyland manufacture most of the vehicles for Indian Army, look at the quality, as good as (or better than) foreign maal.

And Mahindra has it's own Aerospace division, which bought over Grippsland Aero. Their resources should be used to supplement the production.
 

p2prada

New Member
Joined
May 25, 2009
Messages
10,234
Likes
4,017
So you are the head of IAF's replacement division perhaps?

Whatever be the km number ,do you accept that with present day tech we can have missile lock for LCA's heat seeking missile on any 5th gen fighter at a18 km distance according to CARLO KOPP. is that okay with you or you will contradict carlo kopp?
This lock is different from a BVR lock using a radar. This is not even a lock, it is merely tracking using heat signatures.

A heat seeker missile fired from close distances targeting a J-20/F-22/PAKFA has higher chances than an active seeker fired from BVR distances of 18Km and greater.

Using IRST, all we know is there is an object in the sky producing a lot of heat, no other information is given. If you look at the aircraft from the front, the heat could be around 150[SUP]o[/SUP]C, from the back it could be 200-300[SUP]o[/SUP]C, with After Burners it could be 1200-1500[SUP]o[/SUP]C. So, WVR missiles use the engine heat energy to produce a lock. Note that this lock can be broken through other ways like using flares, maneuvering, using cloud cover or the simple and effective out running the missile.

During dog fights, aircraft use a combination of high energy turns, vertical climbs etc to out maneuver the enemy. This is done by using a combination of potential energy and After Burners. To maintain this high energy ABs are used quite frequently and this is what missiles use to "lock on."

On 5th gen aircraft, say the F-22. The heat radiated by engines is significantly lesser than on 4th gen aircraft. Flat nozzles help dissipate heat energy quicker than round nozzles. Ceramic tiles are used to cover the walls of the engine and engine nozzles. This further reduces heat. Apart from this, unlike 4th generation aircraft, F-22 does not need to use After Burners to maintain high energy states. This is because of the F-22s ability to supercruise. Using regular cruise modes, the F-22 can manage a speed of Mach 1.7 without having to use ABs. This reduces heat radiated by 3 to 4 times compared to a normal 4th gen fighter. Since ABs are not used, the heat energy is lesser and a small seeker will not be able to pin point the heat source from chaff which burns at higher than AB temperatures of 3000[SUP]o[/SUP]C. So, if the F-22 is moving at Mach 1.5 and releases high temperatures chaff, the seeker will not follow the very low temperature F-22 exhaust plume and will lose to the F-22's readings due to the excess speed.

Even from far ranges, while the F-22 is cruising at Mach 1.7, the IRST will not be able to pick it up at least upto 30-40Km. This is a figure the Russians claim.

So, considering the above, what will you do if you detect the F-22 even from 30Km away? Forget detection, first you will need to train the 4th gen pilot to identify the heat signature of the F-22 from another aircraft. OLS cannot identify aircraft from long distances, the identification happens at very small distances. The F-22 is like a small dot on the screen. So, all you know is there is something there, it can be a F-22 or some satellite debris falling from space. It could be a hot air balloon or it could be a ball of plasma. However, at this range the F-22 would have already killed you because it can still see you from 400Km away while you are struggling to identify the strange heat anomaly from 30Km away(well within the kill range of Aim-120D).

When it comes to heat seeking missiles, it is primarily used in WVR combat. Here 5th generation aircraft completely take away all advantages of WVR missiles, except for speed. When a rocket powered missile is launched, it is the fastest in the initial stage, after which it slows down due to air resistance. So, if you want to maintain speed, then you will have to fire the missile at close ranges of 500m to 10Km. Beyond which most WVR missiles have nearly run out of fuel. A shot like this can kill a 5th generation aircraft.

But there is a problem here!!! Do you know what the problem is? The problem is the F-22 pilot should be stupid enough to get into a dog fight in the first place. Even before that, you should know there is a F-22 flying around for you to engage and therein starts the difference between a 4th gen aircraft and a 5th gen aircraft.

The difference between stealth and non stealth is Too Much. It is not like the difference between F-4 and F-15 which are third and fourth generation fighters. When F-15 replaced the F-4, it was designed to have a kill ratio of 7:1 against the F-4. A Mig-21 with a good radar and a BVR can still kill a F-15, even though it has only 2 shots. A F-4 too has good chances in a one on one fight against a F-15. But the difference between a F-15 and a F-22 is like heaven and earth. The kill ratio was found to be 104:0. As in 104 F-15s lost to F-22 and not one single F-22 was lost. Simply too big a gap to bridge with avionics and AWACS alone. You can send 6 F-15s against the F-22 and still not score a single kill, while the F-22 could have killed all of them and gone home even without coming close.
 

EzioAltaïr

New Member
Joined
Aug 27, 2012
Messages
257
Likes
74
This lock is different from a BVR lock using a radar. This is not even a lock, it is merely tracking using heat signatures.

A heat seeker missile fired from close distances targeting a J-20/F-22/PAKFA has higher chances than an active seeker fired from BVR distances of 18Km and greater.

Using IRST, all we know is there is an object in the sky producing a lot of heat, no other information is given. If you look at the aircraft from the front, the heat could be around 150[SUP]o[/SUP]C, from the back it could be 200-300[SUP]o[/SUP]C, with After Burners it could be 1200-1500[SUP]o[/SUP]C. So, WVR missiles use the engine heat energy to produce a lock. Note that this lock can be broken through other ways like using flares, maneuvering, using cloud cover or the simple and effective out running the missile.

During dog fights, aircraft use a combination of high energy turns, vertical climbs etc to out maneuver the enemy. This is done by using a combination of potential energy and After Burners. To maintain this high energy ABs are used quite frequently and this is what missiles use to "lock on."

On 5th gen aircraft, say the F-22. The heat radiated by engines is significantly lesser than on 4th gen aircraft. Flat nozzles help dissipate heat energy quicker than round nozzles. Ceramic tiles are used to cover the walls of the engine and engine nozzles. This further reduces heat. Apart from this, unlike 4th generation aircraft, F-22 does not need to use After Burners to maintain high energy states. This is because of the F-22s ability to supercruise. Using regular cruise modes, the F-22 can manage a speed of Mach 1.7 without having to use ABs. This reduces heat radiated by 3 to 4 times compared to a normal 4th gen fighter. Since ABs are not used, the heat energy is lesser and a small seeker will not be able to pin point the heat source from chaff which burns at higher than AB temperatures of 3000[SUP]o[/SUP]C. So, if the F-22 is moving at Mach 1.5 and releases high temperatures chaff, the seeker will not follow the very low temperature F-22 exhaust plume and will lose to the F-22's readings due to the excess speed.

Even from far ranges, while the F-22 is cruising at Mach 1.7, the IRST will not be able to pick it up at least upto 30-40Km. This is a figure the Russians claim.

So, considering the above, what will you do if you detect the F-22 even from 30Km away? Forget detection, first you will need to train the 4th gen pilot to identify the heat signature of the F-22 from another aircraft. OLS cannot identify aircraft from long distances, the identification happens at very small distances. The F-22 is like a small dot on the screen. So, all you know is there is something there, it can be a F-22 or some satellite debris falling from space. It could be a hot air balloon or it could be a ball of plasma. However, at this range the F-22 would have already killed you because it can still see you from 400Km away while you are struggling to identify the strange heat anomaly from 30Km away(well within the kill range of Aim-120D).

When it comes to heat seeking missiles, it is primarily used in WVR combat. Here 5th generation aircraft completely take away all advantages of WVR missiles, except for speed. When a rocket powered missile is launched, it is the fastest in the initial stage, after which it slows down due to air resistance. So, if you want to maintain speed, then you will have to fire the missile at close ranges of 500m to 10Km. Beyond which most WVR missiles have nearly run out of fuel. A shot like this can kill a 5th generation aircraft.

But there is a problem here!!! Do you know what the problem is? The problem is the F-22 pilot should be stupid enough to get into a dog fight in the first place. Even before that, you should know there is a F-22 flying around for you to engage and therein starts the difference between a 4th gen aircraft and a 5th gen aircraft.

The difference between stealth and non stealth is Too Much. It is not like the difference between F-4 and F-15 which are third and fourth generation fighters. When F-15 replaced the F-4, it was designed to have a kill ratio of 7:1 against the F-4. A Mig-21 with a good radar and a BVR can still kill a F-15, even though it has only 2 shots. A F-4 too has good chances in a one on one fight against a F-15. But the difference between a F-15 and a F-22 is like heaven and earth. The kill ratio was found to be 104:0. As in 104 F-15s lost to F-22 and not one single F-22 was lost. Simply too big a gap to bridge with avionics and AWACS alone. You can send 6 F-15s against the F-22 and still not score a single kill, while the F-22 could have killed all of them and gone home even without coming close.
WVRs are very unreliable, correct. I've read that even the presence of the sun in the sky can confuse a WVR.
 

p2prada

New Member
Joined
May 25, 2009
Messages
10,234
Likes
4,017
LCA, you can forget it. Dog fight or BVR fight. The LCA has no chance of survival in such an environment. The Mig-21 Bison filled 3 roles. The first was point defence, second was interception, 3rd was escort for Mig-27 and Jaguar while Mig-29 and Mirage-2000 provided air superiority cover. A very minor strike role too. The LCA is expected to do the same roles. Nothing more. This is because the Mig-27 and Jaguars cannot protect themselves. Now point defence and interception can easily be done by MKIs and far more effectively. Escort service, there is a limited need for it till 2030 when Jaguars are still there. But MKIs better that role anyway. Pretty soon we will induct Rafales which will protect themselves better. Later AMCA will follow suit and will completely eradicate the need for LCAs. Now do you understand why LCAs are no longer necessary? Whatever it was expected to do, the MKIs do it better. Simple as that.

Do you remember the pic I posted, with 4 MKIs and 12 Gripen Cs and the tankers?

Let's calculate the costs shall we? Let's replace Gripen C with LCA.

MKI costs $45Million today. LCA will cost $40Million. IL-78 will cost $45Million.

So, to achieve the capability of 4 MKIs, there should be 12 LCAs and 2 IL-78s.

In terms of costs, that's $180Million to buy 4 MKIs. For 12 LCAs it will be $480Million + 90Million for two tankers = $570Million. Hmm, interesting?

Add pilot costs, infrastructure, weapons, training, maintenance etc and the cost for 12 LCAs would balloon to much higher levels.
 

p2prada

New Member
Joined
May 25, 2009
Messages
10,234
Likes
4,017
As of now, only No. 45 Squadron (not flying already, but will be flying in a while. 45 was a MiG 21 squadron, until recently when they became the first to get the Tejas.
My point was all Mig-21s were replaced with MKIs, no other fighter replaced MIg-21 squadrons.
 

ersakthivel

Brilliance
New Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2011
Messages
7,029
Likes
8,764
Country flag
This lock is different from a BVR lock using a radar. This is not even a lock, it is merely tracking using heat signatures.

A heat seeker missile fired from close distances targeting a J-20/F-22/PAKFA has higher chances than an active seeker fired from BVR distances of 18Km and greater.

Using IRST, all we know is there is an object in the sky producing a lot of heat, no other information is given. If you look at the aircraft from the front, the heat could be around 150[SUP]o[/SUP]C, from the back it could be 200-300[SUP]o[/SUP]C, with After Burners it could be 1200-1500[SUP]o[/SUP]C. So, WVR missiles use the engine heat energy to produce a lock. Note that this lock can be broken through other ways like using flares, maneuvering, using cloud cover or the simple and effective out running the missile.

During dog fights, aircraft use a combination of high energy turns, vertical climbs etc to out maneuver the enemy. This is done by using a combination of potential energy and After Burners. To maintain this high energy ABs are used quite frequently and this is what missiles use to "lock on."

On 5th gen aircraft, say the F-22. The heat radiated by engines is significantly lesser than on 4th gen aircraft.
tHIS IS what your LM guys want us to believe it is impossible to hide heat. you can spreaad it.But cant hide it.
Flat nozzles help dissipate heat energy quicker than round nozzles. Ceramic tiles are used to cover the walls of the engine and engine nozzles.
I am talking about the jet stream that blows out of the nozzle.
This further reduces heat. Apart from this, unlike 4th generation aircraft, F-22 does not need to use After Burners to maintain high energy states. This is because of the F-22s ability to supercruise. Using regular cruise modes, the F-22 can manage a speed of Mach 1.7 without having to use ABs. This reduces heat radiated by 3 to 4 times compared to a normal 4th gen fighter. Since ABs are not used, the heat energy is lesser and a small seeker will not be able to pin point the heat source from chaff which burns at higher than AB temperatures of 3000[SUP]o[/SUP]C. So, if the F-22 is moving at Mach 1.5 and releases high temperatures chaff, the seeker will not follow the very low temperature F-22 exhaust plume and will lose to the F-22's readings due to the excess speed.

Even from far ranges, while the F-22 is cruising at Mach 1.7, the IRST will not be able to pick it up at least upto 30-40Km. This is a figure the Russians claim.

So, considering the above, what will you do if you detect the F-22 even from 30Km away? Forget detection, first you will need to train the 4th gen pilot to identify the heat signature of the F-22 from another aircraft. OLS cannot identify aircraft from long distances, the identification happens at very small distances. The F-22 is like a small dot on the screen. So, all you know is there is something there, it can be a F-22 or some satellite debris falling from space. It could be a hot air balloon or it could be a ball of plasma. However, at this range the F-22 would have already killed you because it can still see you from 400Km away while you are struggling to identify the strange heat anomaly from 30Km away(well within the kill range of Aim-120D).

When it comes to heat seeking missiles, it is primarily used in WVR combat. Here 5th generation aircraft completely take away all advantages of WVR missiles, except for speed. When a rocket powered missile is launched, it is the fastest in the initial stage, after which it slows down due to air resistance. So, if you want to maintain speed, then you will have to fire the missile at close ranges of 500m to 10Km. Beyond which most WVR missiles have nearly run out of fuel. A shot like this can kill a 5th generation aircraft.

But there is a problem here!!! Do you know what the problem is? The problem is the F-22 pilot should be stupid enough to get into a dog fight in the first place. Even before that, you should know there is a F-22 flying around for you to engage and therein starts the difference between a 4th gen aircraft and a 5th gen aircraft.

The difference between stealth and non stealth is Too Much. It is not like the difference between F-4 and F-15 which are third and fourth generation fighters. When F-15 replaced the F-4, it was designed to have a kill ratio of 7:1 against the F-4. A Mig-21 with a good radar and a BVR can still kill a F-15, even though it has only 2 shots. A F-4 too has good chances in a one on one fight against a F-15. But the difference between a F-15 and a F-22 is like heaven and earth. The kill ratio was found to be 104:0. As in 104 F-15s lost to F-22 and not one single F-22 was lost. Simply too big a gap to bridge with avionics and AWACS alone. You can send 6 F-15s against the F-22 and still not score a single kill, while the F-22 could have killed all of them and gone home even without coming close.
You are still living in the glory old days of F-16 dog fights. Why all these sermons. Modern stealth Ucavs with IRST payload that will be 10 times more sensitive than todays systems will be deployed particularly for this function of detecting 5th gen stealth will fly 100 km infront of the LCA or any other 4th gen fighter squadron and this information will be given to modern heating seeking missiles sitting on the pylons of LCA.

And a 300 kn jet blast is not your thermometer reading of 100 degrees. It is the sheer mountainous volume of heat that will come out from the 5th gen engine that these stealth UCAVs track. And modern heat seeker missilers act like a tv camera with a CCTV type image of imaging infrared heat map of the any 5th gen fighter.

No amount of surface cooling and mixing of cold air into the exhaust stream of F-22 will save it from a heat seeking misssile fired in this fashion by a LCA or SUKHOi or RAFAEL.This is what tommorrows warfare is all about.That is what carlo Kopp says .If you have any dobt you can ask any AL-QAEDA fighter on the ground in AF-PAk.The Ucavs are always on air.Do you know their height cieling? Their time on station? Americans are spending 20 billions on their ucavs alone. are always on air. The IRST is a passive system and no emissions are possible. The f-22 WILL GO PAST A FUTURE IRST CARRYING UCAVS EVEN WITHOU REALIZING IT'S STEALTH IS COMPROMISED. just as today's 4th gen fighters go near a 5th gen without seeing them on the radar.

ONLY detection technologies will help counter 5th gen. Not another 5th gen.Because a5th gen plane is as blind to stealth as a 4th gen plane.

ARE YOU TRYING TO SAY THAT DETECTING 5TH GEN FIGHTERS IS AN ASR REQUIREMENT.ONLY DEDICATED DETECTION AND TRACKING TECHNOLOGY CAN COUNTER 5TH GEN PLANES.NOT ANOTHER 5TH GEN.IN 10 YEARS TIME AS THESE DETECTION TECHNOLGIES MATURE ALL OUR LCAs WILL BECOME 5TH GENS EXACTLY LIKE HOW YOU SAID BISONS HAVE BECOME 4TH GEN IN YOUR OLD POST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This is the last post on this stealth topic. DONT ATTRACT THE ATTENTION OF MODS AND THEY WILL ASK US TO MOVE OUT TO ANOTHER THREAD. tHEN READERS IN THIS THREAD WONT SEE US ANYMORE AS IF WE TOO HAVE BECOME 5TH GEN.

MANY THANKS.
 
Last edited:

EzioAltaïr

New Member
Joined
Aug 27, 2012
Messages
257
Likes
74
My point was all Mig-21s were replaced with MKIs, no other fighter replaced MIg-21 squadrons.
?? No, there are still 153 operational MiG 21s in IAF, alongside a number of grounded ones. Su 30MKI production is to be capped after the next batch of 40 fighters, I believe. So LCA is the aircraft that replaces other MiGs 21s right? Also, I did tell you already that the first squadron to be re-equipped with LCAs is a MiG 21 squadron.
 

EzioAltaïr

New Member
Joined
Aug 27, 2012
Messages
257
Likes
74
LCA, you can forget it. Dog fight or BVR fight. The LCA has no chance of survival in such an environment. The Mig-21 Bison filled 3 roles. The first was point defence, second was interception, 3rd was escort for Mig-27 and Jaguar while Mig-29 and Mirage-2000 provided air superiority cover. A very minor strike role too. The LCA is expected to do the same roles. Nothing more. This is because the Mig-27 and Jaguars cannot protect themselves. Now point defence and interception can easily be done by MKIs and far more effectively. Escort service, there is a limited need for it till 2030 when Jaguars are still there. But MKIs better that role anyway. Pretty soon we will induct Rafales which will protect themselves better. Later AMCA will follow suit and will completely eradicate the need for LCAs. Now do you understand why LCAs are no longer necessary? Whatever it was expected to do, the MKIs do it better. Simple as that.

Do you remember the pic I posted, with 4 MKIs and 12 Gripen Cs and the tankers?

Let's calculate the costs shall we? Let's replace Gripen C with LCA.

MKI costs $45Million today. LCA will cost $40Million. IL-78 will cost $45Million.

So, to achieve the capability of 4 MKIs, there should be 12 LCAs and 2 IL-78s.

In terms of costs, that's $180Million to buy 4 MKIs. For 12 LCAs it will be $480Million + 90Million for two tankers = $570Million. Hmm, interesting?

Add pilot costs, infrastructure, weapons, training, maintenance etc and the cost for 12 LCAs would balloon to much higher levels.
If there is no need for the LCA at all, then why is the IAF so interested in it? Why has it ordered 40 Mk 1s and stated that they intend to cap orders at 200?

I know that the LCA has faced problems and delays, but please, do not criticise it baselessly.
 

p2prada

New Member
Joined
May 25, 2009
Messages
10,234
Likes
4,017
By the way, how many Tejas can HAL make in one year? I once read it's 10 a year, but that's too low right? That would mean 20 years for the 200 planes IAF requires.
HAL said it is 8/year. But there have been delays in making prototypes. It may be increased only after IAF order 4 squadrons of Mk2s.

IAF has only ordered 40 Mk1s. IAF has promised 4 squadrons of Mk2. 200+ is all fictional as of today. IAF's current plans are 6 squadrons in 10 years.

WVRs are very unreliable, correct. I've read that even the presence of the sun in the sky can confuse a WVR.
This is not an issue anymore. Early missiles had this issue.

Btw, about the LCAs prototype inductions. Those are not inductions. Those are just prototypes that were handed to IAF. The aircraft still belong to ADA. The first 2 aircraft to be delivered for actual IAF use is only in 2013. Meaning only IOC aircraft will see squadron induction.

Same with PAKFA. Russian air force will see first PAKFA in 2013, but actual squadron inductions will happen with mass produced aircraft in 2015, ie, IOC. Completely different things. You can say IAF cannot go to war with IOC aircraft(at least well after FOC to incorporate changes), let alone prototypes.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Articles

Top