ADA Tejas (LCA) News and Discussions

[EzioAltaïr]

HAL said it is 8/year. But there have been delays in making prototypes. It may be increased only after IAF order 4 squadrons of Mk2s.

Hope so, the production is too low at the moment.

IAF has only ordered 40 Mk1s. IAF has promised 4 squadrons of Mk2. 200+ is all fictional as of today. IAF's current plans are 6 squadrons in 10 years.

IAF needs 39 squadrons, and has 36 1/2. Over the next few years, the strength is actually gonna decrease, since the MiG 21s are going out faster than MKIs, LCAs, and Rafaels are coming in. Plus, recently IAF said it needs 45 squadrons, not just 39. Consider all these factors, and it's quite clear that IAF needs huge amounts of aircraft, since FGFA and AMCA will come to life only by 2019.

This is not an issue anymore. Early missiles had this issue.

Ok. In any case, flares are the worst enemy of WVR.

Btw, about the LCAs prototype inductions. Those are not inductions. Those are just prototypes that were handed to IAF. The aircraft still belong to ADA. The first 2 aircraft to be delivered for actual IAF use is only in 2013. Meaning only IOC aircraft will see squadron induction.

2 by 2013? But I've seen reports claiming that by next year, IAF will have completely re-equipped the Flying Daggers with Tejas.

 

[p2prada]

?? No, there are still 153 operational MiG 21s in IAF, alongside a number of grounded ones.

You are confused with the statement I made. When I said "all" I meant all the aircraft that have been phased out. I did mention Bisons are still flying and will continue to do so until 2017.

Su 30MKI production is to be capped after the next batch of 40 fighters, I believe.

50+140+40+42 = 272

Production will run until 2018.

So LCA is the aircraft that replaces other MiGs 21s right?

Yeah. 2 squadrons. But not until 2013-14.

 

[ersakthivel]

p2prada;579754]LCA, you can forget it. Dog fight or BVR fight. The LCA has no chance of survival in such an environment. The Mig-21 Bison filled 3 roles. The first was point defence, second was interception, 3rd was escort for Mig-27 and Jaguar while Mig-29 and Mirage-2000 provided air superiority cover. A very minor strike role too. The LCA is expected to do the same roles. Nothing more. This is because the Mig-27 and Jaguars cannot protect themselves.

Who is going to die protecting them? cruise missiles have long taken over the jobs done by these flying fossils.You want to upgrade the and parade them in front of PAF F-16s and J-10s .Why you are so cruel. You are saying that SUKHOIs have replaced MIG_21s. Sukhoi is mainly a fighter cum striker. See BRAHMOS missile is integerated with it. We want strike aircrafts that can defend themselves like air superiority fighters.
If you have any doubt look at the rafael and SUKHOI. They can strike and fight. LCA is the pure interceptor. Mig-27s and Jaguars are flying fossils, that have no role in facing PAF and PLAF.

Now point defence and interception can easily be done by MKIs and far more effectively. Escort service, there is a limited need for it till 2030 when Jaguars are still there. But MKIs better that role anyway. Pretty soon we will induct Rafales which will protect themselves better. Later AMCA will follow suit and will completely eradicate the need for LCAs. Now do you understand why LCAs are no longer necessary? Whatever it was expected to do, the MKIs do it better. Simple as that.

Do you remember the pic I posted, with 4 MKIs and 12 Gripen Cs and the tankers?

Let's calculate the costs shall we? Let's replace Gripen C with LCA.

MKI costs $45Million today. LCA will cost $40Million. IL-78 will cost $45Million.

So, to achieve the capability of 4 MKIs, there should be 12 LCAs and 2 IL-78s.

In terms of costs, that's $180Million to buy 4 MKIs. For 12 LCAs it will be $480Million + 90Million for two tankers = $570Million. Hmm, interesting?

Add pilot costs, infrastructure, weapons, training, maintenance etc and the cost for 12 LCAs would balloon to much higher levels

 

[EzioAltaïr]

You are confused with the statement I made. When I said "all" I meant all the aircraft that have been phased out. I did mention Bisons are still flying and will continue to do so until 2017.

Alright.

50+140+40+42 = 272

The 42 is already in stages of being delivered. And that's it. When I said 40 aircraft, I meant this batch of 42.

First 50 were made by Russia and given to us between 1996 and 2000.

The 140 were manufactured in India and about 100-110 have been delivered. The rest will be here by 2014.

The next order for 40 was placed in 2007, and I think it's been delivered already.

The next 42 are the Super 30's which should be here soon.

This amounts to about 70-90 MKIs yet to be delivered.

Production will run until 2018.

No, probably till 2015. Then they will began upgrading the other 200 MKIs to the Super 30 variant.

Yeah. 2 squadrons. But not until 2013-14.

One of them is No. 45 Squadron. Which is the other? Any idea?

 

[EzioAltaïr]

p2prada;579754]LCA, you can forget it. Dog fight or BVR fight. The LCA has no chance of survival in such an environment. The Mig-21 Bison filled 3 roles. The first was point defence, second was interception, 3rd was escort for Mig-27 and Jaguar while Mig-29 and Mirage-2000 provided air superiority cover. A very minor strike role too. The LCA is expected to do the same roles. Nothing more. This is because the Mig-27 and Jaguars cannot protect themselves.


Now point defence and interception can easily be done by MKIs and far more effectively. Escort service, there is a limited need for it till 2030 when Jaguars are still there. But MKIs better that role anyway. Pretty soon we will induct Rafales which will protect themselves better. Later AMCA will follow suit and will completely eradicate the need for LCAs. Now do you understand why LCAs are no longer necessary? Whatever it was expected to do, the MKIs do it better. Simple as that.

Do you remember the pic I posted, with 4 MKIs and 12 Gripen Cs and the tankers?

Let's calculate the costs shall we? Let's replace Gripen C with LCA.

MKI costs $45Million today. LCA will cost $40Million. IL-78 will cost $45Million.

So, to achieve the capability of 4 MKIs, there should be 12 LCAs and 2 IL-78s.

In terms of costs, that's $180Million to buy 4 MKIs. For 12 LCAs it will be $480Million + 90Million for two tankers = $570Million. Hmm, interesting?

Add pilot costs, infrastructure, weapons, training, maintenance etc and the cost for 12 LCAs would balloon to much higher levels

You do realise that you have been quoting it a bit wrongly right?

 

[p2prada]

If there is no need for the LCA at all, then why is the IAF so interested in it? Why has it ordered 40 Mk 1s and stated that they intend to cap orders at 200?

It is currently 2 squadrons of Mk1 and 4 squadrons of Mk2. I mentioned this already. The 200 numbers is fictional, you can say for domestic consumption. If IAF is serious about it, then they will actually place concrete orders, instead of giving estimates and promises of more orders.

The 6 squadrons are expected by 2022, ie only if they keep to the new schedule. Anything beyond that is speculation at best. Let's not forget that there will be Navy orders too. So, they won't be waiting for IAF orders to finish first.

I know that the LCA has faced problems and delays, but please, do not criticise it baselessly.

There is no limit to criticizing the program. It is a typical case of hand in the cookie jar. ADA simply did not know when to pull their hand out. Now they are stuck.

What is pissing off is that the Americans are cribbing about a 7 year delay, but nobody here is interested in a 20 year delay. Everything chalta hai in India.

2 by 2013? But I've seen reports claiming that by next year, IAF will have completely re-equipped the Flying Daggers with Tejas.

You mean they will finish 1500 flight tests or 1000 flying hours in 9 months after IOC when they have taken 11 years for the same.

Do you believe that?

First 2 aircraft by early-mid 2013. Squadron induction in 2 years after that with the first FOC aircraft to follow in 2015. Then 2 years to get first squadron of FOC aircraft. So, 2 squadrons by 2017.

In the meantime, first IOC squadron for Mk2 will be half ready(if they stick to schedule) and inducted by 2018. Followed by first FOC Mk2 with squadron induction by 2020.

If they don't stick to deadline then we can at least expect 4 squadrons by 2022, instead of the planned 6.

Whatever the case, it will take 2 years from IOC to FOC. Beyond that it depends on how fast HAL makes the aircraft after FOC.

Notice ADA never said anything officially about LCA beyond the 2014 first flight and 2016 for first induction. Do you like the timeframe I posted here? It fits with the IAF schedule for 6 squadrons by 2022.

 

[p2prada]

The 42 is already in stages of being delivered. And that's it. When I said 40 aircraft, I meant this batch of 42.

First 50 were made by Russia and given to us between 1996 and 2000.

The 140 were manufactured in India and about 100-110 have been delivered. The rest will be here by 2014.

The next order for 40 was placed in 2007, and I think it's been delivered already.

The next 42 are the Super 30's which should be here soon.

The last 42 will be delivered between 2015 and 2018.

The current orders for 140 aircraft from HAL will be completed by 2015 with around 40 left. As of December 2011, HAL had delivered 99.

It's been delayed.

One of them is No. 45 Squadron. Which is the other? Any idea?

I am not sure if that has been decided yet. Maybe they know it internally, nothing in public. There are a few empty squadrons and more will come with the older Mig-21s being phased out this year.

There was a squadron raised for MKI very recently, they replaced Mig-27s. It's been moved to Halwara. Squadron 31.

 

[EzioAltaïr]

It is currently 2 squadrons of Mk1 and 4 squadrons of Mk2. I mentioned this already. The 200 numbers is fictional, you can say for domestic consumption. If IAF is serious about it, then they will actually place concrete orders, instead of giving estimates and promises of more orders.

The 6 squadrons are expected by 2022, ie only if they keep to the new schedule. Anything beyond that is speculation at best. Let's not forget that there will be Navy orders too. So, they won't be waiting for IAF orders to finish first.

LCA Tejas handed over to Indian Air force, IAF Chief clarifies it is a fourth gen aircraft - Frontier India - News, Analysis, Opinion - Frontier India - News, Analysis, Opinion

http://news.indiavoice.info/india/iaf-inducts-indigenous-lca-tejas-2011011016349/

10 Squadrons, 2 of Mk 1s and 8 of Mk 2s. I guess, the figure of 6 squadrons is okay for now, since it's not necessary that IAF will order all 10 of these.

There is no limit to criticizing the program. It is a typical case of hand in the cookie jar. ADA simply did not know when to pull their hand out. Now they are stuck.

Calm down man, I know there were too many delays, and the Tejas is a bit too costly, but it is a good aircraft.

What is pissing off is that the Americans are cribbing about a 7 year delay, but nobody here is interested in a 20 year delay. Everything chalta hai in India.

Yeah, this should be really embarrassing for ADA, hope they learn and fix the timeline a bit.

You mean they will finish 1500 flight tests or 1000 flying hours in 9 months after IOC when they have taken 11 years for the same.

Do you believe that?

I have noticed that the developers in India always delay the original, but the new versions get delivered fast. See the Arjun, Mk 1 in 20 years, Mk 2 a year after that.

First 2 aircraft by early-mid 2013. Squadron induction in 2 years after that with the first FOC aircraft to follow in 2015. Then 2 years to get first squadron of FOC aircraft. So, 2 squadrons by 2017.

I don't know, most sources I see, say that 1 squadron by 2013, 2 by 2015, with follow on orders after that.

In the meantime, first IOC squadron for Mk2 will be half ready(if they stick to schedule) and inducted by 2018. Followed by first FOC Mk2 with squadron induction by 2020.

Hope they stick to schedule.

 

[p2prada]

LCA Tejas handed over to Indian Air force, IAF Chief clarifies it is a fourth gen aircraft - Frontier India - News, Analysis, Opinion - Frontier India - News, Analysis, Opinion

http://news.indiavoice.info/india/iaf-inducts-indigenous-lca-tejas-2011011016349/

10 Squadrons, 2 of Mk 1s and 8 of Mk 2s. I guess, the figure of 6 squadrons is okay for now, since it's not necessary that IAF will order all 10 of these.

Some wrong things here.

IAF plans to induct two squadrons in IOC mode by the middle of 2011.

Nobody inducts two squadrons of IOC standards. One is enough to achieve FOC.

The IAF has already placed the orders for 40 LCAs in March 2005.

The second squadron was ordered in 2009.

The IAF plans to ultimately have around 10 LCA Tejas squadrons to replace Russian MiG-21.

The exact same quote has been copy pasted in different articles, some without the Mig-21. So, it is a repeat of outdated information.

LCA tejas has cleared the Initial Operational Clearance. IAF will now be able to fly the aircraft under its own colors and it will contribute to Final Operational Clearance (FOC). The FOC is expected to be achieved by the end of 2012. IAF intends to deploy the aircraft at one of its bases in Bangalore.

For obvious reasons, none of this has happened. Hence outdated information.

I have noticed that the developers in India always delay the original, but the new versions get delivered fast. See the Arjun, Mk 1 in 20 years, Mk 2 a year after that.

It is not a big deal to modify an existing platform and deliver it quickly.

ADA announced that any new platform will take them 16 years. 7 to design and and build a prototype followed by 9 years of flight testing. So, AMCA is expected to have first flight in 2017-18 and see first induction in 2026-27, if we go by what they say.

I don't know, most sources I see, say that 1 squadron by 2013, 2 by 2015, with follow on orders after that.

I have seen that only in one source that Sridhar posted. It is wrong information.

Accurate info,
Tejas IOC pushed back to 2013 | idrw.org

The initial operational clearance (IOC) for India's locally designed Tejas Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) has been further delayed to mid-2013, postponing its active squadron service with the Indian Air Force (IAF) to 2015, if not beyond.

Officials said the LCA was expected to obtain full IOC after participating in the IAF's 'Iron Fist' air exercises at Pokhran in the Rajasthan desert in February 2013.

"Tejas will display its capabilities during the exercise when its [weapon] lethality and precision will be tested," Air Marshal Anjan Kumar Gogoi of South Western Command said on 24 August.

IAF officials estimate the single-engine LCA will eventually secure IOC by mid-2013, with final operational clearance (FOC) following in 2015.

 

[EzioAltaïr]

Some wrong things here.


Nobody inducts two squadrons of IOC standards. One is enough to achieve FOC.



The second squadron was ordered in 2009.



The exact same quote has been copy pasted in different articles, some without the Mig-21. So, it is a repeat of outdated information.



For obvious reasons, none of this has happened. Hence outdated information.






It is not a big deal to modify an existing platform and deliver it quickly.

ADA announced that any new platform will take them 16 years. 7 to design and and build a prototype followed by 9 years of flight testing. So, AMCA is expected to have first flight in 2017-18 and see first induction in 2026-27, if we go by what they say.



I have seen that only in one source that Sridhar posted. It is wrong information.

Accurate info,
Tejas IOC pushed back to 2013 | idrw.org

Hope they induct it as soon as possible in any case.

By the way, IOC pushed back to 2013? It already achieved IOC back in 2011 right?

 

[p2prada]

By the way, IOC pushed back to 2013? It already achieved IOC back in 2011 right?

Fake IOC. For kicks I suppose.

Now IOC has been divided into two phases(I believe it's the first time in history).

IOC-I was the one that happened in 2011 and was a farce.

IOC-II is expected in 2013 and this is generally what everybody is calling IOC. This is because IAF refused to accept aircraft that don't come up to IOC level. They publicly revealed that the AoA, sustained turn rate and G limits were not achieved and hence will wait for ADA to achieve it before ordering first 2 aircraft from HAL.

Then there were major delays due to problems in fuel pipes. They had to modify the design a bit. So, what should have taken 6 months to 1 year has instead taken this long.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Under influence of Former Parlimentarian Suresh Kalmadi..

 

[EzioAltaïr]

Fake IOC. For kicks I suppose.

Now IOC has been divided into two phases(I believe it's the first time in history).

IOC-I was the one that happened in 2011 and was a farce.

IOC-II is expected in 2013 and this is generally what everybody is calling IOC. This is because IAF refused to accept aircraft that don't come up to IOC level. They publicly revealed that the AoA, sustained turn rate and G limits were not achieved and hence will wait for ADA to achieve it before ordering first 2 aircraft from HAL.

Then there were major delays due to problems in fuel pipes. They had to modify the design a bit. So, what should have taken 6 months to 1 year has instead taken this long.

Wow, a 2 part IOC? Man, this LCA is a disaster. No chance of disposing of Mk1 altogether, and focusing fully on Mk2? 'Cause that would kinda make sense right?

 

[p2prada]

Wow, a 2 part IOC? Man, this LCA is a disaster. No chance of disposing of Mk1 altogether, and focusing fully on Mk2? 'Cause that would kinda make sense right?

Of course, LCA failed already. Deadline after deadline for a 50 year old technology and only a glimmer of light at the end of the tunnel.

Anyway Mk1 is needed for supporting the industry. Let them delay the LCA as much as they want, it does not matter anymore. Same if MK2 is delayed too.

IAF is busy with MKI, they pushed orders from 190 to 270 to manage the squadrons shortfall with PAKFA pushing up the numbers later on. They have prioritized Rafale for now and AMCA's design stage has already begun. So, IAF has plans for 4th and 5th gen for both low and high components of the force regardless of how LCA works out.

While MKI, PAKFA and Rafale are backed by established design houses, AMCA is not. Delays and problems with LCA would mean less delays and problems when AMCA comes up, as long as the engine issue is sorted out. No point pushing AMCA beyond 2030 because that's the time the Americans will come out with a 5th-6th gen hybrid aircraft while other countries like France would have begun plans for a new 6th gen aircraft.

US Navy issues F/A-XX RfI - The DEW Line

The USN has already issued a RFI for a 6th gen aircraft with a secondary manned option. If they make a decision in a few years, then RFPs can be sent out in the same decade.

Can't keep waiting for LCA, especially if they come up with a 2 or 3 part FOC.

 

[EzioAltaïr]

Of course, LCA failed already. Deadline after deadline for a 50 year old technology and only a glimmer of light at the end of the tunnel.

Anyway Mk1 is needed for supporting the industry. Let them delay the LCA as much as they want, it does not matter anymore. Same if MK2 is delayed too.

IAF is busy with MKI, they pushed orders from 190 to 270 to manage the squadrons shortfall with PAKFA pushing up the numbers later on. They have prioritized Rafale for now and AMCA's design stage has already begun. So, IAF has plans for 4th and 5th gen for both low and high components of the force regardless of how LCA works out.

While MKI, PAKFA and Rafale are backed by established design houses, AMCA is not. Delays and problems with LCA would mean less delays and problems when AMCA comes up, as long as the engine issue is sorted out. No point pushing AMCA beyond 2030 because that's the time the Americans will come out with a 5th-6th gen hybrid aircraft while other countries like France would have begun plans for a new 6th gen aircraft.

US Navy issues F/A-XX RfI - The DEW Line

The USN has already issued a RFI for a 6th gen aircraft with a secondary manned option. If they make a decision in a few years, then RFPs can be sent out in the same decade.

Can't keep waiting for LCA, especially if they come up with a 2 or 3 part FOC.

Agreed. Considering that the only enemy who poses any significant threat to IAF is China, and it is going for J-20s. We need to push fast for the FGFA and AMCA, so that we have both 5th Gen air superiority and ground attack aircraft. Let the LCA work at it's own pace. I've heard that the knowledge HAL gained through the use of composites on LCA is being used in the FGFA, and all the knowledge from LCA will be used in AMCA.

If the LCA has any use in the future, it's gonna be against Pakistan, or as a supplement to the heavier aircraft like MKIs or Rafales.

 

[ersakthivel]

Originally Posted by P2PRADA

p2prada;579754]LCA, you can forget it. Dog fight or BVR fight. The LCA has no chance of survival in such an environment. The Mig-21 Bison filled 3 roles. The first was point defence, second was interception, 3rd was escort for Mig-27 and Jaguar while Mig-29 and Mirage-2000 provided air superiority cover. A very minor strike role too. The LCA is expected to do the same roles. Nothing more. This is because the Mig-27 and Jaguars cannot protect themselves.

I closed the post before I can complete my reply , JAGUARS and MIG-27s can't defend themselves without escorts. So it is the rafaels and sukhois that are going to do the INDEPENDENT STRIKE ROLES without escorts. So it is FALSEHOOD to say SUKHOI is replacing MIG-21s as claimed by prada.

So the LCA-mk-1s are now replacing MIG-21s and MIG-21 BISONS. Not the sukhois. In the last KARGIL THe MIRAGEs were called.

That's why strike fighters that can't defend themselves are all obsolete. The LCA moulded in the shape of mirage can do both precision bombing with LGBs and air to air point defence missions. So LCAs can very well easily replace "PRADA's" 4th gen BISONS and can easily do the job of jaguars as well. In this forum betraying his genius p2PRADA once said"DELTAS BOMBING AT SEA LEVEL. NOT HAPPENING". But when RAFAELS do the same jobs for french forces he will keep mum. That shows his level of knowledge and intellectual honesty.

p2prada says Now point defence and interception can easily be done by MKIs and far more effectively. Escort service, there is a limited need for it till 2030 when Jaguars are still there. But MKIs better that role anyway. Pretty soon we will induct Rafales which will protect themselves better. Later AMCA will follow suit and will completely eradicate the need for LCAs. Now do you understand why LCAs are no longer necessary? Whatever it was expected to do, the MKIs do it better. Simple as that.

That is what I say that LCA can do both the roles of jags and bisons both with more agility and accuracy and they can give a good account in encountering enemy fighters while bombing. That's what modern airforces are. So talking that whole sky will fall down with the induction of LCA mk-1 is just garbage.

The experience of these 40 pilots are relevant and easily transferable to the LCA mk-II which will do the job of LCA mk-1 in a much better way. That's what I meant by meaning that if 40 jag &mig-27 pilots spend 10 or 15 years on these to be retired fighters ,it is a waste of time and experience.

P2PRADA says

Do you remember the pic I posted, with 4 MKIs and 12 Gripen Cs and the tankers?

Let's calculate the costs shall we? Let's replace Gripen C with LCA.

MKI costs $45Million today. LCA will cost $40Million. IL-78 will cost $45Million.

So, to achieve the capability of 4 MKIs, there should be 12 LCAs and 2 IL-78s.

In terms of costs, that's $180Million to buy 4 MKIs. For 12 LCAs it will be $480Million + 90Million for two tankers = $570Million. Hmm, interesting?

that's what you always want grippen-cs in place of much better lower wing loadind LCAs that have 45% composites and preventing the 40 pilots who fly these MK-1s retaining the relevancy of 10 yeras of tactics in MK-1 and transfering it to MK-2

P2PRADA says
Add pilot costs, infrastructure, weapons, training, maintenance etc and the cost for 12 LCAs would balloon to much higher levels
You do realise that you have been quoting it a bit wrongly right?

Do you know what is the cost of setting up infrastructure for soon to be inferior GRIPPEN-C(compared to tejas mk_II),
and a far lesser cost of upgrading the MK-1 s MK-ll standards.

Introducing 40 new fighters and wasting 10 more years of pilot tactics on grippsn-c is what you want. For what?

 

[ersakthivel]

p2prada;579970Of course, LCA failed already. Deadline after deadline for a 50 year old technology and only a glimmer of light at the end of the tunnel.

sakthi

First funding on 1993 for two prototype developments,first flight at 2004, IOC at 2011.

Once agiain posting gibberish regarding the time line of TEJAS development, totally hiding the fact that all fcs modern fighters have taken almost more or less same time.CAN you quote the project definition date of RAFAEL and EUROFIGHTER and their ioc and foc and entry into squadron service?
At the same time arguing for Grippen-c ,how many years old are grippen's technologies? is it all seeing 5th gen?

p2prada says
Anyway Mk1 is needed for supporting the industry. Let them delay the LCA as much as they want, it does not matter anymore. Same if MK2 is delayed too.

IAF is busy with MKI, they pushed orders from 190 to 270 to manage the squadrons shortfall with PAKFA pushing up the numbers later on. They have prioritized Rafale for now and AMCA's design stage has already begun. So, IAF has plans for 4th and 5th gen for both low and high components of the force regardless of how LCA works out.

sakthi
More garbage as if you are the head of procurement division of IAF.

p2prada says
While MKI, PAKFA and Rafale are backed by established design houses, AMCA is not. Delays and problems with LCA would mean less delays and problems when AMCA comes up, as long as the engine issue is sorted out. No point pushing AMCA beyond 2030 because that's the time the Americans will come out with a 5th-6th gen hybrid aircraft while other countries like France would have begun plans for a new 6th gen aircraft.

ADA can draw on the experience and knowlegde of AGNI Missile heat shields and ring laser gyros developed for AGNI-5 and totally composite casing of AGNI-5 and the ISRO with hudred space launches and a chandriyan over the moon and fantastic guidance system of BRAHmos and it's own capable FCS capacity already developed for LCA.What edge other design houses have over these?

Not to mention the IIts and 50 other research labs who will give ADA what ever they want without charging royalties of course.

US Navy issues F/A-XX RfI - The DEW Line

p2 prada says
The USN has already issued a RFI for a 6th gen aircraft with a secondary manned option. If they make a decision in a few years, then RFPs can be sent out in the same decade.

Can't keep waiting for LCA, especially if they come up with a 2 or 3 part FOC

sakthi
The USAF inducted F-16 within 3 years of it's maiden flight.

 

[ersakthivel]

p2prada says

HAL said it is 8/year. But there have been delays in making prototypes. It may be increased only after IAF order 4 squadrons of Mk2s.

IAF has only ordered 40 Mk1s. IAF has promised 4 squadrons of Mk2. 200+ is all fictional as of today. IAF's current plans are 6 squadrons in 10 years.

sakthi
Fiction only in your head.

p2prada says
This is not an issue anymore. Early missiles had this issue.

Btw, about the LCAs prototype inductions. Those are not inductions. Those are just prototypes that were handed to IAF. The aircraft still belong to ADA. The first 2 aircraft to be delivered for actual IAF use is only in 2013. Meaning only IOC aircraft will see squadron induction.

sakthi
How will LSp-7 and LSp-8 deffer from LCAA-MK-1? Do you know the fact that the first 40 sukhois delivered to IAF was delivered without any weapons package and IAF pilots honed their skills in tactics with their aircrafts and after a few years they were sent back to russia for weponisation. Can you also call them prototypes?

p2prada sys
Same with PAKFA. Russian air force will see first PAKFA in 2013, but actual squadron inductions will happen with mass produced aircraft in 2015, ie, IOC. Completely different things. You can say IAF cannot go to war with IOC aircraft(at least well after FOC to incorporate changes), let alone prototypes.

Upgraded JAGS and mig-21 BISONS and MIG_27s will win us the war of tomorrow

 

[navkapu]

US Navy issues F/A-XX RfI - The DEW Line

LCA the concept is same as GNAT people thought they were useless but they proved all people wrong ........ LCA is there for a reason so is SU30 etc.....

 

[ersakthivel]

WVRs are very unreliable, correct. I've read that even the presence of the sun in the sky can confuse a WVR.

That is the old generation ,not the new generation which store the surface area heat map of the fighter to homein.