ADA Tejas (LCA) News and Discussions

[ersakthivel]

I dont fancy LCA to carry DPS into enemy territory .That is not its role.But even against a swrm of incomming fighters that chinese and pakistanes are defenitely going to throw at us four LCAs coupled with a single PAKFA or SUKHOI can give a devestating reply.With out these LCAs the fight for the motherland will be lost ,remember.However latest the rafales ,SUKHOIS and PAKFAs wont cope up with numbers.Hundreds of low RCS LCAs will be defenitely needed.Towards that end the young fighter pilots need to practice on the mk-1s,not wasting time on DPS bombers like mig-27s and JAGUARS ,which can never return ,because they will never be state of art depite the many upgrades.Fly by wire is the future.

 

[ersakthivel]

Nothing precludes LCA from carrying 120 km range missiles. Derby is chosen now .But if future long range missiles are awailable there is no bar on putting it on LCA.
The aircraft simply isn't designed for large missiles. It is a small fighter. In the future, only Astra Mk1 is planned.

Give me one authentic post that precludes LCA from carrying meteor range missiles

What precludes a small fighter from carrying a larger missile ?I wana reliable source not a general statement.If each pylon is strengthened for 800 kgs lca can pretty much cary three 800 kg missiles.

It is not a law that only big fighter can carry a long range missile. Can you give the payload of J-20,so you are saying that the hundreds of j-10s and sukhoi , mig clones that are amassed by china will never come into India? Has china stopped production of J-10s,J-11s? Every fighter has a role friend.

If rafale is a dps then sukhoi is a air superiority.The LCA is needed for CAS, combat air patrol and AWCAS escort ,maritime surveilance etc , etc, Also have a thought my friend,In an extended future war CHINA will block the sea lanes and we have to count on the RUSSIAn willpower to delive urgenly needed spares for SUKHOI and PAKFA, So their use in war will be prioritised.Surely you cant send them on air patrols and all mundane tasks.

 

[ersakthivel]

There are 8 hardpoints. The one under the intake carries pods, no missiles. The centerline does not carry missiles either. So, there are 3 hardpoints for fuel and 4 hardpoints for missiles. Addition of missiles using multi-ejector racks would mean the LCA will have extremely high drag and is more of a BVR truck than an interceptor or point defence.

the basic understanding is when you get into a dog fight when you have used up all your missiles.Since when people dog fih=ght when they have missiles?

 

[Zebra]

Mirage 2000 not LCA

My bad. sorry.

 

[ersakthivel]

Try F-16. Same specs as the F-35. Now, find out why it was first built as a dog fighter and even today is considered as the aircraft with the best sustained turn rates over most other fighters. F-16s wing loading is also in the region of 400s.bazdriver - Israeli Air Force F015 driver.
The F-16 and F-15 are the best sustained energy turning fighter of the 4th generation. No Su-27,30,or MKI or Mig-29 can compete in this category. To not talk about supersonic turn performances were the gap is even higher. Russian current fighters are largely overrated and their reputation has more to do with the glamorous sight of the low-speed but very,very rare dogfight than with actual (Liban, Gulf, Yougoslavia) combat, where overall weapons system and others assets improving SA make the differrence. Today the principle (speed is life) still applies. Even Boyd never argued for low speed dogfighter, but for energy fighter. The F-16 and F-15 were the best and the F-22 will just continue in the same way.

What I said is that those russians fighter are bleeding speed at very high rate with operationnal weight. They are much more draggy than the two american fighters in high speed(subsonic and transsonic) regime, and by the way most Su-27 and Mig-29 flying today are g-limited at speed higher than 450KCAS. I'm not saying they are no match, I said that in most combat situations the F-16 and F-15 enjoy an advantage over them.

F-16 is the best dog fighter of its time. PERIOD .Not today's.People should understand that in a dog fight F-16s turn and mirages and LCA climb.That is the tactics used.However old an F-16 is no new fighter will ever out turn it.That is its basic aerodynamics.

Likewise however famous any F-16 is it cannot out climb a MIRAGE or LCA that point must be understood also.Then What will the best dog fighter do when a LCA with such low wing loading climbs and dives on a turning F-16 or GRIPPEN or J_10. Get shot.Thats all.

The greek airforce has both and all the time GREEK PILOTS gave thumbs up to mirages in climbing and diving fights

 

[p2prada]

I dont fancy LCA to carry DPS into enemy territory . That is not its role.

Previously you questions me on why LCA will be meant to handle only strike fighters. So, it seems you are learning. Good.

But even against a swrm of incomming fighters that chinese and pakistanes are defenitely going to throw at us four LCAs coupled with a single PAKFA or SUKHOI can give a devestating reply.

How about replacing those 4 LCAs with 2 more PAKFA and 2 MKI? We can certainly afford it.

With out these LCAs the fight for the motherland will be lost ,remember.

Pffffft!

The exact opposite stands.

However latest the rafales ,SUKHOIS and PAKFAs wont cope up with numbers.

270 MKIs, 126-200 Rafale, 214-300 PAKFA against a paltry 123 LCAs that too when 40 of them will be based in Sulur. I need ten times the weed you smoke man. As a researcher in Nanotechnology you must be knowing there is a minimum qualification required in math to discuss about aircraft.

Hundreds of low RCS LCAs will be defenitely needed.

There is no place for hundreds of fighters. ADA will be lucky to even manage to sell 100 LCAs to IAF.

Towards that end the young fighter pilots need to practice on the mk-1s,

Our young pilots are all on MKI. All our old and experience pilots are on Jaguar and Mig-27

not wasting time on DPS bombers like mig-27s and JAGUARS ,which can never return ,because they will never be state of art depite the many upgrades.

This kind of utter nonsense is the reason why I am calling you a kid. LCA is equal to these aircraft anyway. The state of the art upgrade Jaguar is going through is the same stuff that will be in LCA Mk1.

Fly by wire is the future.

Fly by wire came in 1970. Fly by light is the future.

 

[ersakthivel]

The twisted wing root and diffused flow chambers and cranked delta in LCA whre there, because once the IAF has got MIRAGES they simply loved it.Now people are showing bee stung faces means what can we do.Remember the IAF bought mirages to counter the F-16 .The LCA took all that is best of mirage in a miniature form.Note DASAULT is the consultant for LCA.

Does anyone know how long DASAULT took for MIRAGE's FLY BY WIRE technology? 15 years to be precise. Now that puts into perspective what ADA has acheived.Now even AIRBUS is buying the fly by wire technology from ADA.

The AMCAA is just going to be a bigger version of LCA.Note the similarities between J-10 canard design and J-20.J-20 came so earlie surprising everyone because all the sweat has been spilled on J-10 and hundreds of J-10s that are operationalised and lessons learned from that.

Now even the chinese have given it a bomber nomenclatue acknowledging its lack of thrust. But still they are building it for a specific role of close air support.mind it.

With just one prototype of J-20 taking off twice here people are shouting ,junk the LCA.Whatis the point mate? the J-10s deployed in tibet have bomber nomenclture

 

[Apollyon]

I dont think LCA will ever be stationed in North East sector and will only constitute second line of defense even against PAF and i cant think of any reason why IAF should be buying LCA Mk-I ..!!

 

[Apollyon]

With just one prototype of J-20 taking off twice here people are shouting ,junk the LCA.Whatis the point mate? the J-10s deployed in tibet have bomber nomenclture

dafuq ? :shocked:
J-10A's are deployed in Tibet and are actually Interceptors with minimal Air to Ground Capability.

 

[p2prada]

What precludes a small fighter from carrying a larger missile ?I wana reliable source not a general statement.If each pylon is strengthened for 800 kgs lca can pretty much cary three 800 kg missiles.

If you grow a brain, you will be 6 inches taller. Is that how it works in the nanotechnology field too?

If you do increase the strength to such a degree, which is not possible anyway, what do you think the weight gain will be for an empty airframe? What will power the extra weight? Who the heck will fly that 6m long missile sticking out? Heck the missile will be half the length of the airframe. Now, I need hundred times the weed you smoke.

It is not a law that only big fighter can carry a long range missile.

Yes, it is a law. Bigger cars can carry more people. Bigger trucks can carry more cargo. Bigger aircraft can carry more payload. The MKI's inner hardpoints can carry 2 tons and will be increased to 3 tons for Brahmos. The LCA's inner hardpoints can at best carry 500-600Kg.

Can you give the payload of J-20,so you are saying that the hundreds of j-10s and sukhoi , mig clones that are amassed by china will never come into India? Has china stopped production of J-10s,J-11s?

Payload of J-20 is not known. But it is a heavy fighter, that is known. The hundreds of J-10 and J-11s will wait for J-20 to clear out all the LCAs and then they will come in and pound what's left.

The hundreds of Migs clones will be gone by the decade end.

Every fighter has a role friend.

In today's world the LCA has no role to play. Other heavier 4th gen fighters do have a role, but they can support the 5th gen fighters more effectively than the LCA.

If rafale is a dps then sukhoi is a air superiority.

Both can handle both missions.

Also have a thought my friend,In an extended future war CHINA will block the sea lanes and we have to count on the RUSSIAn willpower to delive urgenly needed spares for SUKHOI and PAKFA, So their use in war will be prioritised.Surely you cant send them on air patrols and all mundane tasks.

All spares are made in India. As for Rafale, we will be making spare parts for France too. MiG is setting up factories in India to manufacture spares for IAF and other export countries too.

FGFA will be our own aircraft like LCA.

All mundane and high priority tasks can be done by both MKI and Rafale and in the future FGFA and AMCA. There are no mundane tasks anyway. Even giving a joyride to the President is not mundane.

 

[p2prada]

the basic understanding is when you get into a dog fight when you have used up all your missiles.Since when people dog fih=ght when they have missiles?

Yes. So. LCA can carry only two compared to 8-10 that MKI/Rafale can carry.

F-16 is the best dog fighter of its time. PERIOD .Not today's.People should understand that in a dog fight F-16s turn and mirages and LCA climb.That is the tactics used.However old an F-16 is no new fighter will ever out turn it.That is its basic aerodynamics.

F-16 still delivers the best sustained turn performances ever. So, it can turn better. Mirages and LCAs capabilities are different. When it comes to instantaneous turn speeds, the Rafale and MKI can do better than LCA.

Likewise however famous any F-16 is it cannot out climb a MIRAGE or LCA that point must be understood also.

Wrong. The F-16 can out climb both Mirage-2000 and LCA. Even tomorrow with the Mk2 in service, the F-16 will have a faster vertical speed than the LCA Mk2.

Then What will the best dog fighter do when a LCA with such low wing loading climbs and dives on a turning F-16 or GRIPPEN or J_10. Get shot.Thats all.

The greek airforce has both and all the time GREEK PILOTS gave thumbs up to mirages in climbing and diving fights

The Americans were flying F-16A/Bs at that time. Mirage-2000 still shows inferior climb performance to F-16. If they give thumbs up or not is just playing for the gallery. Numbers are what matters.

 

[p2prada]

The twisted wing root and diffused flow chambers and cranked delta in LCA whre there, because once the IAF has got MIRAGES they simply loved it.Now people are showing bee stung faces means what can we do.Remember the IAF bought mirages to counter the F-16 .The LCA took all that is best of mirage in a miniature form.Note DASAULT is the consultant for LCA.

For all that LCA should have been inducted in 1999. There is no point talking about how similar LCA is compared to Mirage-2000 when even the French want to sell or phase out their Mirages.

Does anyone know how long DASAULT took for MIRAGE's FLY BY WIRE technology? 15 years to be precise. Now that puts into perspective what ADA has acheived.

ADA achieved nothing world class. It's like our Olympics medal tally.

Now even AIRBUS is buying the fly by wire technology from ADA.

The AMCAA is just going to be a bigger version of LCA.

To think ADA wanted to develop a strike fighter first. There could be similarities, but the models released till date do not show any such similarities.

Note the similarities between J-10 canard design and J-20.J-20 came so earlie surprising everyone because all the sweat has been spilled on J-10 and hundreds of J-10s that are operationalised and lessons learned from that.

What? Canards make it similar?

Now even the chinese have given it a bomber nomenclatue acknowledging its lack of thrust. But still they are building it for a specific role of close air support.mind it.

Can you please explain what is this so called Bomber nomenclature? I would love to know.

The Chinese do have a bomber nomenclature for aircraft meant for bombing roles, but I would really like to know what you think it is.

With just one prototype of J-20 taking off twice here people are shouting ,junk the LCA.Whatis the point mate?

Yeah. That's how the world works. When the enemy has something good, you try getting something equal or better, not the other way round.

the J-10s deployed in tibet have bomber nomenclture

Repeating Dk's words, "Dafuq?"

 

[Abhi9]

LCA are there for a certain role.

Comparing LCA to J-20 is out of question. If the enemy were to use J-20 for air-dominance to clear the sky, thats where FGFA comes into picture, you put 5the gen vs 5th gen.J-20 capabilities are not yet known to address it as super aircraft that has super stealth or super manouvering . It is still not yet known that how these aircraft perform against each other be it J-10 Vs LCA or rafale Vs J-10.

LCA will be best used for interdiction or point defence roles on the western sector for a less capable PAF. PLAAF has lots of good aircraft coming into the picture. LCA MK1 is good aircraft but airforce wants a superior model with LCA MK2

I am not advocating for LCA MK1 but its not a piece of crap. As can be advocated that hornet evolved into Super hornet. LCA's engine is main culprit, having sad that, LCA is not developed for air superiorty. In its current configuration it can leave behind MIG-21.

I just want to say the R&D done for LCA will not go to waste, it will evolve into more mature and superior technology

 

[p2prada]

Comparing LCA to J-20 is out of question. If the enemy were to use J-20 for air-dominance to clear the sky, thats where FGFA comes into picture, you put 5the gen vs 5th gen.J-20 capabilities are not yet known to address it as super aircraft that has super stealth or super manouvering . It is still not yet known that how these aircraft perform against each other be it J-10 Vs LCA or rafale Vs J-10.

Huh?

In that case even LCA is not proven. At least Rafale and J-10 are proven aircraft.

I am not advocating for LCA MK1 but its not a piece of crap.

Actually it is. It has no combat potential. It can only provide experience to the IAF and our defence industry. Beyond that the other aircraft can do much better. It can still fill a numbers shortfall though and that seems to be a priority for IAF.

As can be advocated that hornet evolved into Super hornet. LCA's engine is main culprit, having sad that, LCA is not developed for air superiorty. In its current configuration it can leave behind MIG-21. I just want to say the R&D done for LCA will not go to waste, it will evolve into more mature and superior technology.

Super Hornet and Hornet are in effect different aircraft. LCA Mk1 and LCA Mk2 are not that different.

LCA was always expected to surpass 2nd generation Mig-21 and be equal to 4th generation Mirage-2000. The problem is LCA Mk1 is somewhere between the two.

With modern LGBs and missiles, the LCA Mk2 will eventually have a capable strike role too. So, more or less a Mirage-2000 in 2020.


Somehow you got the point I was making all along, albeit partly.

 

[trackwhack]

Somehow you got the point I was making all along, albeit partly.

Amazingly, no one else has. Thank god for small mercies.

 

[p2prada]

Amazingly, no one else has. Thank god for small mercies.

How cute. If you read some of Abhi's posts you will realize that even he has the concept of low and high wing loading right.

Maybe there are things you can learn from him instead.

 

[trackwhack]

How cute. If you read some of Abhi's posts you will realize that even he has the concept of low and high wing loading right.

Maybe there are things you can learn from him instead.

You mean the concept of how high wing loading is better than low wing loading?

 

[ersakthivel]

Wrong. The F-16 can out climb both Mirage-2000 and LCA. Even tomorrow with the Mk2 in service, the F-16 will have a faster vertical speed than the LCA Mk2.

That's enough .stop posting your pet ideas. I too can keep on lying for ever.How can an aircraft with such a high wing loading can climb faster? Only tou and the pilot smoke enough pot. If you dont have the mind for accepting that with MLu of higher powered engine LCA mk-1 can out climb F-16 then I wont argue

Besides I am asking one more question.Have the chinese shut down all production facilities of J-10? Please giVe me source regarding that.Not some pot again.

Give source regarding your claim that J-20 has 6m long internal weapons bay door opening.

Also please ask your chinese friends to stick a 40 ton refrigirator to turn its exhaust into turd and drop it all over himalayas. So that it can fly into INDIA undetected by UCAbvs with evolved pay loads.

Also ask you chinese friends to ban the use of large wavelength radars so that we can all pass a motion in parliament to scrap Lca.

Also ask the chinese airforce to scrap all the mig,sukhoi clones and their J-10s. And go bankrupt with all J-20 airforce.

With a small football sized IRST Russians are claiming that they can detect a F-22 40 kms away. Shall we all call them fools?

What will happen tommorrow if under the econmic military influence of china Russians cut off spares to all your favourite toys in the air?

Shall we all commit suicide? Come on what kind of argument is that? Only you and your grandfather can deliver A fly by wire ,composite fighter within 9 Years of actual funding as per your claim that ADA should have delivered the craft by 1999.

And we will also outlaw all awacs.Despite ramming it again and again that all your fancied aircrafts rely on their AWACS for targetting.You are claimimg that J-20 will eat AWACS for breakfast.I can also claim that PAKFA will eat AWACS for breakfast and the field is level.Why i am not doing that is because if any real expert reads that he will laugh his ass off.

Lumbering 30 tonners with just few KN spare power from their overworked engines and an EW suit that may weigh at the most a ton can defeat a 100 million dollar packed with end to end electronics AWACS.It can happen only in bond movies.And if someone smokes pot even to beleive that in a movie.

I also think that you have not read any up to date news regarding the fact that AESA beam concentrated from AWACS can fry (not jam) the electronics of modern fighters.Since you are refusing tpo come out of F-16 days what is the point?

If you can argue that LCAs pylons cant be strenghtened beyond 800 kgs. Then if tommorrow some 15 meter long 2 ton missile is invented with a range of 300 km , That can be launched from eben heavier aircraft, can I also claim that every J-20 is obsolete? Do you have any source that there will be no development in long range missile field for the next 15 years that will result in a missile that cant be Launched by J-20.If not then let me declare that all J-20 s are already obsolete I think that chinese should drop J-20 and develop even bigger plan

.

 

[trackwhack]

That's enough .stop posting your pet ideas. I too can keep on lying for ever.How can an aircraft with such a high wing loading can climb faster? Only tou and the pilot smoke enough pot. If you dont have the mind for accepting that with MLu of higher powered engine LCA mk-1 can out climb F-16 then I wont argue

If one believes bullshit for a long enough time, one will be convinced. I have been trying to reason with him on this one point, yet he refuses to acknowledge what is high school physics.

 

[ersakthivel]

In this forum we should shape ideas.Not peddle pet theories . If You keep on claiming that F-16 will outclimb any version of LCA then what is the point?How can a 30 year old fighter bulging all over with all suites and such apathetic wing loading achieve that? If it has a bigger power engine You are convinienly hiding the fact it weighs way over the LCA. The greek airforcr has both and it is their authentic claim that while f-16 cant be beaten in turning fight,The mirage cant be beaten in climbing fight.

It was built for tree top radar evasive flights in the pre awacs pre heavy-sam era. It hasnt met its equal advesary in Network centric condition. Against IRAQ you can do that.Against afganistan you can do that.You cant do that in a heavily defended mobile sam environments.How many times I have to post it. Because it flies low level and picjed up by mobile radar units it will have barely a few seconds to react.

Have you ever spared the thought for a tommorrows battlefield with cruise missiles flying all over.Hundreds at one go.Say tommorrow some one develops a air to air missile to counter them,then will you also employ PAKFA to carry them? The LCA wont even be fit for that,I guess.

Once again Let me say that when J-20 takes the field 10 years from now there will be umpteen counter measures and sensitive Ucavs to smoke them out.In that scenaro just enlighten us how can it eat awacs for breakfast?


And how long will you jeep on flying the 200 odd migs.Replacing them with sukhois is a bad idea as per your plan,since The PAKFA and even AMCA will be more advanced.They can eat sukhoi for breakfast.Isnt it foolish for the GOI to order 42 sukhois. If I sy that you will come hammer and tongs with the argument that they are waaaaaaaay better than the LCA.

Then if I argue by the same logic that replacing rusting migs abd jags with ever upgradable LCAs that are better than most of paf F-16s and J-10s You will call me to grow a brain.Such waste of time