2016 India–Pakistan military confrontation

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meh
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This reduces the credibility of the Pakistani state in their own citizens eyes.
Not immediately, only when they are exposed which could be a few years down the line and under a different Army chief and Prime Minister. Then it will damage not the credibility of the Pakistani state in their citizen's eyes but the previous government. It's the same way we Indians tend to dismiss anything bad that comes out about the Congress government.

You & me as an Indian should firm up your own psyche and be ready to accept losses.
I believe that we are, every loss just angers us more and strengthens our resolve to make Pakistan pay.
 

Screambowl

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No point. They'll claim they are doctored no matter we share. You are misjudging their basic nature if you believe that'll work. The only way for their people to give up on their army is to beat them in a conflict, as decisively as '71 and then hold onto to the territory gained.

I believe in 71 there was no social media or twitter or youtube. Hence they could not access the other news.
But in the age of information if India lack behind promoting Indian propaganda of psywar and infowar on Porkis then its little sad.
 

sorcerer

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Maybe most will not believe but some will, land grab can be done in addition to releasing footage. I'm salivating at the prospect of Indian planes flying over Pak dropping propaganda pamphlets.
In another angle..what about the chinee factor..
pakis acceptin it will put their bestshit friend china in a situation.. Now pakis would require china to give them permission to speak.

china is doing good looting in pakistan..if it means to come that china didnt help their best friend pakistan in time of an event as usual :D that will hurt chinese businessess more than pakistan..as pakistan is used to getting hurt anyway.

pak: *sobbing

china:Hey fraaaaaaaaaand whut u say?

pak: got surgical strike on my rear from Indian army.

china:awwwieeee..you are butt hurt...errr.... literally this time? Nobody touches daddys lil girl paki rear ..its for china wonly!! (*Throws fist in the air)

pak:*nods *puppy face

china:Now..hush hush..Its not the first time nooooo..dont cry like a virgin now..You have got reared before..be a sport..

pak:you didnt warn us. ..was you not watchin us from above

china:*chuckles..errr voyeur is a different thing but..it was dark no.. them Indians did it on a No moon day no.. and they kicked your moons..now its a bloody moon. *chuckles

pak:u makin fun of us.

china:hey besht friend noooooo..cheering cheering you.

pak:I will complain to the UN on this.

china:noooooo...why...its not like a new thing...now hush hush..and be happy happy..nothing happened..alright.. (*like a shrink)..remember you started it. Didn't daddy block your buddy Jem at the same UN and other international forums..

pak:*nods with sad face.

china:hmmm..to cheer you up we will dump more chinese goods in your economy at cheaper rate than your textile manufactureres and whatever crappy industry you are having...you want some chinese atta noodles....how about some..eh eh..eh...? We will treat your economy with chinese atta noodles and things you already have..

pak:hey..we already have atta...

china:wokay wokay.. we will give you some fake milk and atta.

pak: and commission..

china: okay okay.




Airspace violation + act of war
It willl bring unnecessary expediency and complication in the plan BSF is planning for winter..may be.
 

sorcerer

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Indian Army 'Fire Assault' Hits Pakistan Military Outposts

On Saturday evening, the Indian Army’s Northern Command stated that it carried out a “massive fire assault” against Pakistani outposts across the Line of Control, the de facto border separating India-occupied and Pakistan-occupied Kashmir.

“Four Pak posts destroyed in massive fire assault in Keran Sector. Heavy casualties inflicted,” the Indian Army’s Northern Command noted on its official Twitter account, providing little other information.

The move was ostensibly retaliation for the killing and mutilation of an Indian solider by unknown militants, who reportedly received support from the Pakistan military.

The Pakistani side has not commented on the Indian Army’s claimed “fire assault” across the Line of Control, as of this report.

Both events underline the ongoing tensions along the Line of Control, which grew out of a volatile summer in the Kashmir Valley following the killing of Burhan Wani, a Hizbul Mujahideen leader, and exploded following a September assault by Pakistan-based militants on an Indian Army outpost in Uri. With 19 soldiers killed in that attack, the Uri attacks represented the single deadliest strike on the Indian Army in well over a decade, sparking public outcry in India and calls for retaliation.

Shortly after the Uri attacks, India staged retaliatory “surgical strikes” across the Line of Control, raising concerns of potential Pakistani retaliation or escalation. Since then, tensions have remained high, with additional militant attacks in India-occupied Kashmir, including a prolonged stand-off near Indian Army 46 Rashtriya Rifles and Border Security Force camps in Baramulla.

Saturday’s “fire assaults” on Pakistani military outposts are particularly concerning for the fragile cease-fire along the Line of Control. The Times of India reported last week, citing anonymous source, that India believes Pakistan may have activated a “Border Action Team” (BAT) to facilitate the encounter that led to the mutilation of an Indian soldier last week.


BAT infiltration across the LoC and support for militant infiltrators makes it considerably likelier that Indian retaliatory actions will begin more explicitly targeting Pakistani military outposts. India’s official statement after its “surgical strikes” sought to make it clear that the retaliation was targeted at militant “launch pads” across the LoC, but clarified that the action was not directed at the Pakistan military. The statement noted, however, that India sought to target “those who are trying to support them.”


While nothing India has done so far suggests a complete shift away from its longer term posture of “strategic restraint” vis-a-vis Pakistan, recent events along the LoC suggest that destabilizing exchanges are likely to continue, straining the ever-more-fragile cease-fire


http://thediplomat.com/2016/10/indian-army-fire-assault-hits-pakistan-military-outposts/


pakis didnt deny or did they?

Well..seems like INdian army knocked some sense into their heads LITERALLY!!
 

thethinker

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Fire Assaults: What They Are And How They Are Conducted

http://swarajyamag.com/defence/fire-assaults-what-are-these-and-how-are-they-conducted

Syed Ata Hasnain - October 31, 2016, 6:18 pm


Over the weekend, the most happening thing in the country was the simultaneous Diwali, in the metropolises of India and at the Line of Control (LoC)/International Border (IB). The former was a happy one with benign lights and sounds while the latter was deadly. Lots of people were hearing the term fire assaults for the first time and social media was demanding to be informed more about this phenomenon. Surgical strikes are passé and fire assaults are in. It is the Indian Army, which in these days is setting the pace for gaining new knowledge.

So here is most of what you would like to know.

What is the LoC and how does it differ from the IB; good to know that. It is a delineated line in a disputed area (although India does not consider J&K as disputed, it is only contested) along which the armies of the claimants are deployed in eyeball to eyeball contact without any no man’s land. The LoC runs well east and south of the actual international boundary and is the alignment along which the conflict of 1947-48 came to a halt, thus creating Pakistan-occupied Kashmir (PoK - often referred as Azad Kashmir, or AK, by Pakistan). Later, after 1971 and the Shimla Accord, it was delineated under the Suchetgarh Agreement. Unlike the IB, there are no boundary pillars (BPs) delineating the LoC. However, there are a series of mostly difficult to discern landmarks such as boulders, trees and nullahs, which have undergone change over the years.

The Indian and Pakistani armies are in an eyeball contact in their various pillboxes and posts all along the alignment, but at places, terrain constraints may separate the two, by two or more kilometres. It is an environment little known to the outside world; here the notion of ‘Grabbers, Keepers’ exists. Translating this into reality, it means that any side grabbing a piece of ground for a tactical advantage gets to keep it unless forcibly evicted (recall Kargil 1999). It is the classical extended form of defence where some key defended localities are held in strength and a few others in the vicinity to support them. There exist gaps, which are patrolled and dominated by fire and in the context of infiltration, ever since 2004 there exists a continuous LoC fence, which is manned 24x7. The gaps are, therefore, no longer existent but the deployment is in penny packets as the LoC itself is hugely manpower intensive, due to the sheer nature of terrain. I can visualise eyebrows being raised with the inevitable question – technology, can’t it replace manpower? The answer is always yes, but the constraints of the LoC terrain cannot easily be imagined. Secondly, the deployment of technical resources is expensive and the nation is unwilling to spend on it unless it increases the defence allocations. Test bed technology demonstrators set up in 2003 are yet to see the light of day.

The IB sector manned by the Border Security Forces (BSF) is a little different. Pakistan does not recognise it as the IB. It calls it the working boundary, denoting that it is not permanent, while for us it is a resolved boundary with nothing contentious. The Army only occupies contentious boundaries, where the threat to territory exists. Only in war will it move up its forces to ‘tactically’ occupy the border even as the BSF continues to man peacetime border outposts. The word tactically means that deployment may not be bang on the border but such that a planned defensive battle can be fought or an offensive can be undertaken. Manning every inch of territory is irrelevant for that.

That brings us to the real subject, fire assaults. Well, you can use troops to physically attack, destroy and evict the enemy but you will suffer high casualties in the course of doing that. The option of not crossing the LoC exists and could also be a politico-diplomatic term of reference from the government of the day for specific purposes. Yet, if the enemy, including the terrorists, connive to cross the LoC and target our posts and the smaller detachments along the fence and gaps there has to be retribution. After the surgical strikes the expectation would be that the Army crosses over each time there is a contingency. That is tactically not possible and there are other options, which the Indian Army is very successfully adopting in the last few days. One of them is fire assaults.

Fire assaults were often used prior to 26 November 2003, and also in some selected areas in later years; areas such as Nangi Tekri in the Rajouri/Mendhar sector, where infringements have been the order of the day. A fire assault involves the optimum employment of mix of weapons of choice, from small arms and machine guns to mortars, missiles, artillery and direct firing artillery guns over a fixed/flexible duration, with the specific aim of causing destruction and casualties in a given area. The fire assault plan has an allocation of heavy ammunition with timings and sequence of employments as felt necessary and caters for the neutralisation against enemy weapons, which will be used as response.

These fire assaults can be absolutely deliberate or pre-decided and employed during contingencies. The important things are to ensure that the firing is not without aim and the punishment is sufficient for the enemy to pay a penalty for his rash actions. It also presupposes adequate overhead, frontal and flank protection for own troops when they are subjected to the response. The surprise factor is most important in this and the ingenuity and experience of the local commander will come handy in planning, execution and catering for contingencies. Surprise can be obtained and ensured by ingenuous choice for deployment of direct firing artillery guns, roving artillery, use of missiles from concealed locations and misleading the enemy on the deployment of force multipliers.

My recount of an incident in 2008 may help understand the importance of fire assaults. A particular area on the LoC had not been frequented by my troops for some time. When I ordered that the area up to the LoC be dominated to avoid the ground being considered by the enemy as his, the local unit sent a small detachment to a temporary location to dominate the ground by day. On the third day of such deployment a Pakistani sub unit under a young officer attempted to evict them by day using a ploy of white flags while dressed in track suits. It led to a brawl with exchange of fire. One of my men was killed but the presence of mind of the light machine gun man saved the day as he opened fire and killed seven Pakistanis on the spot. The rest ran to their post. The Commanding Officer (CO), a phenomenally fit officer, rushed to the area by running and climbing at a height of 13,000 feet. He took charge and recovered the body of our brave heart. Then he asked me what his orders were. I gave him my decision, which was exactly the methodology currently being followed in the last few days. I directed him to destroy the erring post of the Pakistanis from which the officer and his men had emerged to engage our men and any other which interferes with our actions. But I lay the term of reference that the LoC would not be crossed by him or his men.

The brave heart CO was true in his commitment and professional to the hilt. He used the firepower of his unit, no artillery to prevent escalation, and employed heavy weapons in a most ingenuous way the entire night. By morning, pictures sent to me through multimedia displayed exactly what I wished; the flattening out of the Pakistani post, which incidentally was on a lower slope so at much disadvantage; there were many casualties. Not one man from our side crossed the LoC. The next day the radio intercepts revealed the chaos on the Pakistani side with questions and allegations being raised about who was responsible for sending the officer across the LoC in this unconventional suicide mission. Our moral victory was the sighting of an olive green Pakistan Army helicopter on the next afternoon which landed at the brigade headquarters. It took the Brigade Commander away as the only passenger; the Commander was removed from command.

Before the ceasefire came into effect in November 2003, fire assaults were common, particularly in the Poonch and Uri sectors. The Bofors medium gun is extremely useful for such fire assaults and its USP is the surprise that one can obtain with it. The issue which differentiated the Pakistani fire assault from ours was the unpredictability and ingenuity. Our officers, men, porters and animals all joined into the effort and ideas from different sources, higher and lower, were absorbed. Plans were hardly ever repeated.

The other aspect, which soldiers with lesser experience need to remember is that without first ensuring your own protection, never undertake fire assaults. Such protection does not come easy. It is a measure of your appreciation of ground, the amount of backbreaking effort you will undertake to shell proof your own defences and even lowly ambush sites which may be in the open. The moment you reveal a weakness of yours, remember you won’t live to regret it. Senior commanders on visits to posts must always have the corner of the eyes trained to observe flaws such as this, baffle walls and quality of frontal protection. I once made the mistake of assuming that one of my key guns was well protected, without physically visiting the detachment. The gun was blown by an accurate missile strike from the other side; mercifully casualties were superfluous.

In an era when the common understanding is that ‘surgical strike’ is the only term in the lexicon of the Indian Army the public may feel surprised to keep learning and absorbing more terminologies, which form part of military vocabulary. ‘Fire assault’ is not the least of them.
 

Nicky G

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I believe in 71 there was no social media or twitter or youtube. Hence they could not access the other news.
But in the age of information if India lack behind promoting Indian propaganda of psywar and infowar on Porkis then its little sad.
Dude Pakis ban what they don't like. Do they have YT now or is it still banned. Information war is not straightforward as you might think. While I have no issues with us building more assets in this regard, I'd much rather bother about our actions on the ground.
 

Akshay_Fenix

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Dude Pakis ban what they don't like. Do they have YT now or is it still banned. Information war is not straightforward as you might think. While I have no issues with us building more assets in this regard, I'd much rather bother about our actions on the ground.
They have youtube, this year their government unbanned it.
 

ezsasa

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I believe in 71 there was no social media or twitter or youtube. Hence they could not access the other news.
But in the age of information if India lack behind promoting Indian propaganda of psywar and infowar on Porkis then its little sad.
You have to give some credit to modi-doval combo. They even to went to the extent of starting Baloch language radio programs on AIR couple of months back, and more over boosting the signals to reach the other side of pakiland.

We have to accept that this a chess game which is being played at multiple levels. And most of our Govt's moves are not reactionary and are giving indications that they are building up to something.
 

ezsasa

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What is our army doing? Everyday someone gets martied!
Army is doing a fine job of ass whooping the pakis, just like they did between 2002-2003 before Musharraf proposed a ceasefire and that ceasefire did hold good until 2008 Mumbai attack.

if this works, we might have lesser tensions on the border for some years to come.
 

Superdefender

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Army is doing a fine job of ass whooping the pakis, just like they did between 2002-2003 before Musharraf proposed a ceasefire and that ceasefire did hold good until 2008 Mumbai attack.

if this works, we might have lesser tensions on the border for some years to come.
What nice job!!! Pakis are killing both our troops and civillians & we are just destroying their....ahm mere posts!!
 

ezsasa

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What nice job!!! Pakis are killing both our troops and civillians & we are just destroying their....ahm mere posts!!
This is a war of attrition and this is going to go on for some time, better get used to it. as far as paki casualties are concerned, check the previous posts for info.
 

Nicky G

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Army is doing a fine job of ass whooping the pakis, just like they did between 2002-2003 before Musharraf proposed a ceasefire and that ceasefire did hold good until 2008 Mumbai attack.

if this works, we might have lesser tensions on the border for some years to come.
What's the logic of accepting a ceasefire though? Will the Pakis stop trying to hit us via terror attacks? Besides, a ceasefire gives them breathing space to deal with internal matters. My sense, we should continue this war of attrition and see how long can the Pakis last.
 

ezsasa

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What's the logic of accepting a ceasefire though? Will the Pakis stop trying to hit us via terror attacks? Besides, a ceasefire gives them breathing space to deal with internal matters. My sense, we should continue this war of attrition and see how long can the Pakis last.
Usually when ceasefire is offered, responsible nations accept. I have a feeling these ceasefire violations won't go beyond 2017 if not sooner.

If ceasefire accepted, it just means current govt is willing to pass the buck to the next govt whoever that is. It also gives us the breathing space for continuing the policy of diplomatic and economic isolation of pakiland.

There are no right or wrong answers in this game, need a little bit of luck though.
 

Nicky G

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Usually when ceasefire is offered, responsible nations accept. I have a feeling these ceasefire violations won't go beyond 2017 if not sooner.

If ceasefire accepted, it just means current govt is willing to pass the buck to the next govt whoever that is. It also gives us the breathing space for continuing the policy of diplomatic and economic isolation of pakiland.

There are no right or wrong answers in this game, need a little bit of luck though.
Yes we are a responsible nation, but we can always get out of it if its serves our purpose such as making Pak accept concessions or handing over terrorists in order for us to believe their intentions.

If we keep passing the buck to the next government, we'll keep repeating the cycle. We need to sustain the pressure on all fronts - diplomatic, economic and military.

Lets see how much the Pakis can handle.
 

Screambowl

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unless until you show your strength by daily crossing the loc , and stop worrying about UN... no one is going to listen to India.
 

Hassain Ghazini

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Really Indians?

Only two soldiers have been martyred since the beginning of September. These made up stories that fuel your false ego will not affect reality.
 

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