Know Your 'Rafale'

Sancho

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The sole desesperate here is you !
Rafale is a good deal. And I'm sorry to say that you will be frustrated in the next future because you will see some other batchs coming.
That's the problem, you don't even understand that I even would be happy to see more MMRCAs coming, because that helps IAF. But that also make the Rafale deal so bad, because it doesn't have the numbers IAF needs to defend the country.
If French forces would require 100 Rafales and the government only buys 20, you wouldn't be happy about it either (if you are honest), because that's a bad result for the forces.
 

mayfair

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Lol and again, that has nothing to do with his statement, that Rafale and S400 with counter the shortfall.Why are you shifting away from his and your earlier statements?
I was responding to your statement. This one

He is linking Rafale and S400 to counter the shortfall, which as said makes no sense. Fighter can't be replaced by SAMs.
It is clear that IAF sees S400 as an important weapon in the arsenal against both the PLAAF and PAF.

IAF chief echoed these words that in the absence of full sanctioned strength a combination of Rafales and S400 will be a crucial component of IAF's doctrine.

And since it's ACM, I would think his words carry far more weight than yours or mine.

That's all.
 

Sancho

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Nobody is talking about replacements over here, it's a "Stop Gap measure" Period
That doesn't change anything. SAMs can't do what fighters can do, therefore are no stop gap either. And btw, 42 squads is the IAF longterm plan, he only asks for 5 to 6 more MMRCA squads, because he can't defend the country with outdated or limited capable equipment. It's not just about numbers, but as he explained also fighting with equal (4th gen) capabilities, otherwise the kill ratio will increase for the enemy.
 

WolfPack86

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Only solution to solve IAF fighter jets short fall it's to order more Tejas MK 1A and Tejas MK 2.
 

Sancho

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I was responding to your statement. This one
No you wasn't, because I didn't talked, nor asked about the capability of the S400, you just posted that, because you couldn't deny his quote, that was contrary to what you claimed earlier.

The issue is not the S400 (which China btw also has), but that he has to put it in relation to counter the lack of fighters and that is a result of MMRCA cancellation, a bad G2G deal, cancellation of SE MMRCA and now the U turn to MMRCA 2.0, which will further delay procurements till after the election and put IAF in disadvantage.
 

mayfair

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No you wasn't, because I didn't talked, nor asked about the capability of the S400, you just posted that, because you couldn't deny his quote, that was contrary to what you claimed earlier.
No read again. I only posted a rejoinder to your statement. Clearly you need to read carefully. China has S400 taht means ours will help neutralise theirs. Napakis have nothing, so it works as a force multiplier on the Western front.

By providing the Rafale and S-400, the government is strengthening the Indian Air Force to counter the short falls of our depleting numbers.”
Do note the word counter. It means "something that serves to counterbalance or to compensate for something else"

Remember the emphasis, COUNTERBALANCE. NOT REPLACE.

Clearly ACM of the IAF is positive about 36 Rafales and S400 being helpful in mitigating the squadron shortfall and clearly I agree with him.

And with due respect to Yusuf, ACM IAF's opinion counts more than most of what him, you or I have to say on this matter.

Remember, ACM has also said that against the sanctioned strength of 42 squadrons, we have only 31. That's a damning indictment and a very right one at that.

[QUOTE="Sancho, post: 1451017, member: 9505"The issue is not the S400 (which China btw also has), but that he has to put it in relation to counter the lack of fighters and that is a result of MMRCA cancellation, a bad G2G deal, cancellation of SE MMRCA and now the U turn to MMRCA 2.0, which will further delay procurements till after the election and put IAF in disadvantage.[/QUOTE]

Those are your opinions.

IAF was at an an disadvantage when the original contract to purchase Mirage 2000s was curtailed in 1980s, when the initiative to purchase 126 Mirage 2000-5s was nixed in 2001-02 because some bleeding babu argued that Mirage 2000-5 was a different plane from Mirage 2000!!! and hence a follow up order was not possible.

IAF was at an an disadvantage when after the shortlisting in January 2012, the government of the day failed to sign a agreement with the preferred bidder by 2014!! For a full two years.

IAF was at an an disadvantage when the government of the day showed alacrity in purchasing US made C130s and C-17s and P8Is for billions but somehow failed to act quickly once a French/European product was shortlisted in the combat jet project.

And how does IAF come into advantage if the current deal is stymied because of ill-informed politics and vested interests and giving the snail's pace of the Indian babudom, the next process can take over a decade with no guarantees that anything will happen?
 

WolfPack86

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If there were any doubts that Rafale is the front runner of the new competition to build fighter jets in India, this 'endorsement' by IAF should shed some light.
 

Prashant12

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Congress in a fix as Rafale deal yet to attract widespread public attention


Trying to take on Prime Minister Narendra Modi on every front while gearing up for the 2019 general elections, the Congress is now in a fix as the Rafale controversy has failed to garner widespread public attention.:pound:

“There is no debate taking place on the Rafale deal and no agitation while the biggest defence scam of Independent India should have been a serious talking point in houses and streets,” Leader of Opposition in Rajya Sabha Gulam Nabi Azad said.:crazy:

He added that debates in the parliament were failing to find mention in newspapers and news channels.:biggrin2:


:biggrin2:


https://www.business-standard.com/a...despread-public-attention-118091300685_1.html
 
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BON PLAN

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for my friend @Sancho

HAL 'did not have required capability to produce Rafale': Defence Minister Sitharaman

Defence Minister Nirmala Sitharaman has said that the PSU 'did not have the required capability to produce them'. In a detailed interview with news agency PTI, Nirmala Sitharaman said that HAL was in 'no position to give a guarantee' for the big ticket item, as a result of which Dassault, the Original Equipment Manufacturer (OEM) of Rafale jets, could not proceed with the negotiations with HAL

UPA predecessor A K Antony saying he did not do anything about improving HAL's capabilities.

Even during negotiation with HAL, Dassault felt that the cost with which the HAL will produce will be far higher than the aircraft produced in France. That was the reality,"


https://www.timesnownews.com/india/...ult-nirmala-sitharaman-hits-out-at-a-k/284374
 

WolfPack86

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n MMRCA-1 ( during UPA) Dassault wanted to make Rafale in India through a JV with Reliance!! because it thought HAL was causing delays and wasn't competent enough, but, ministry denied the request because original RFP proposal mandated that aircraft has to be assembled by HAL only( deal with unfairness). Even in that case, it was certain that Reliance would eventually get some part in Rafale manufacturing, but the negotiations collapsed and MMRCA-1 was scrapped in 2015.
https://www.facebook.com/pg/TeamAMCA/photos/?ref=page_internal
 

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