Know Your 'Rafale'

pankaj nema

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Want to hear some more COLD war stuff

Since we were in the Soviet camp ;When our Newly bought Jaguars were coming to India after a refuelling halt in the Gulf
US planes based in the Gulf region were constantly tailing us just to SCARE the daylights out of our pilots
but our pilots just quitely continued their journey
 

LETHALFORCE

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Indeed How Times change

The British REMOVED the Electronic Counter Measures FROM the JAGUARS when we
first bought them in 1981 as we were in the Soviet camp

The Jaguar , Mirage 2000 and Mig 23 were immediately bought as soon as the US had
announced the sale of the FEARSOME F 16
Pakistan was gifted more F-16 while F-16 was in the MRCA , a move which LM thought would guarantee
an Indian MRCA victory but one of the stupidest moves I have seen by any defense company in the world.
F-16 should never have even been a contender in the first place. US had an advantage of 2 planes in the
MRCA. SH would have had a better shot by itself.
 
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pankaj nema

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UAE ; Iraq ; Libya ; Qatar ; Kuwait are all US buddies

They will prefer US stuff

At the best Brazil looks like the next customer for Rafale
 

p2prada

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UAE ; Iraq ; Libya ; Qatar ; Kuwait are all US buddies

They will prefer US stuff

At the best Brazil looks like the next customer for Rafale
Kuwait and Iraq, I would agree. Qatar and UAE already operate French Mirage-2000s. UAE's current single vendor deal is meant to replace their Mirage-2000-9s ASAP. Before Gadafi was ousted, Libya wanted to buy the Rafales. The rebels in power may look to France for air power. Perhaps the used Mirage-2000s.
 

pankaj nema

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All these Tiny tots like UAE Iraq Libya Qatar Kuwait are ALWAYS in AWE of the Americans

America has much more indirect influence on these Tiny Tots

These Tiny Tots CRAVE for US affection attention and indulgence

Once VISIT from US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and the leaders of the Tiny Tots
will start SINGING " AMERICA the beautiful "
 

Armand2REP

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I guess SKA's first 72 orders will still go through, regardless of issues. The follow on option will face problems because of their F-15 buy.
Saudis want 3B and refuse to buy non-multi role versions. They still want that assembly factory as well. 3B is looking pretty scarce right now and the UK doesn't want to layoff anymore assembly workers.

The IN has vocally supported Rafale. If the IN tender turns out to be political or favouring the cheaper aircraft with high levels of ToT, Rafale has already won. Sea Gripen and Sea Typhoon aren't capable contenders, especially the Typhoon because of costs. Super Hornet, IN won't touch em. They will probably be made to take part just to provide competition. Only F-35 may end up being in the way of a Rafale victory. Rafale for the Navy may end up being cheaper than the IAF version because of already secured large orders.
IN will go with the Rafale simply for commonality sake, same reason IAF bought it with similarities as M2000-9.

PHP:
I guess Kuwait is only being careful. But you never know what the Middle East ends up doing. Heck they may all end up buying the F-35. Other than Qatar and UAE there is also Oman.
I am not going to hold my breath for Oman. They will either go UK or American. 80% of Qatar's military equipment is French, including their entire AF so Rafale = no brainer. UAE demanded we buy their M2000s which we didn't want, but will buy now. There is plenty of French money flowing to Kuwaiti MPs so a big enough bribe will win that. They want what the region is getting, UAE sets the tone.

With all that mud slinging going on over Rafale's victory in the MRCA deal in the UK, there is no way in hell any UK govt will buy the Rafale now. RN will cry about it and still end up being a F-35 customer. Nobody, anywhere cried about EF's defeat in Japan. But they are quite angry over a French victory in India. Quite touchy, these EF guys. It would be the same with any country belonging to the EF consortium. Rafale is an untouchable now.
It all depends on F-35s final outcome, and time frame. They won't invest in Sea Typhoon so the only options are F18s and Rafales. They certainly prefer to get F-35s. But if the money and schedules aren't there, they won't get it. It would look pretty silly to have CVF floating around for years with no fighters. Talk about mudslinging... F18 wouldn't make it if they want France to fund fitting of the joint-carrier. The offset would be them buying Rafale.

Forget the Middle East, there are other countries that require aircraft. Korea is there, but they may be a bunch of F-35 buyers as well. Vietnam and Philippines are available as clients. Indonesia may buy Russian or go for the Japan 5th gen JV, but may have room for the Rafale. So, that's Asia.
Korea is little Yankee puppet state. They are occupied by it so...

Vietnam and Rafale... never happen. Philippines is too poor. Now, if that F-16 deal doesn't go through in Taiwan it should make Rafale a clean sale. The frigate scandal is resolved with Thales paying damages and they are happy with French Senate not blocking the lawsuit. M2000 already dogs China's hottest disputes. Now lets make it Rafale. Indonesia is diversifying suppliers so who knows, but I doubt it.

Libya with it's oil deposits may either buy the used Mirages or new Rafales, a good choice to have. I don't think there is any other African country interested in a new jet.
Rafale is too rich for Libya now. Emirates used M2000-9s will definitely go there. Africa is too poor for such fighters. The richest South Africa can't even afford to fly the cheapo Gripen.

Australia, Rafale will only take part in a losing battle, no point.
Australia is deferring F-35 orders, of course they would just buy more Super Boogers.

Argentina is a possible buyer if the political situation is favourable. A few other countries like Peru and Chile may help.
We won't sell to the Argies as high as tensions are with the Brits. That would throw our entire alliance to dust. Peru just signed an upgrade for MiG-29s so it would be awhile before they scrap them. They just signed an upgrade for the M2000s so that is another long time. Once they are depleted it would certainly be on the table. Chile is in the market for new fighters. Only way I see it happening is if F-16 line is shut down before time, they do like the Falcon.

Forget the Swiss. Every country follows procedure. Gripen beat all other aircraft in the deal and Rafale has a chance only if the deal is re-tendered. I think all other European countries may go for the F-35 save for Greece and Serbia. Greece's economy may improve over time and they may need a replacement aircraft for their F-16s and Mirage-2000s. Turkey is buying the F-35, so Greece will follow with new aircraft. There is Serbia with their squadron deal, but they will simply choose the second cheapest bird after the JF-17. :becky:
I can't forget the Suisse, Gripen deal is under investigation by the Senate and Dassault undercut their offer. That is totally in play. Greece will buy Rafale but it depends on how fast Turkey gets F-35s. It is looking pretty slow now. Serbia will but whatever is cheap, they are broke. They won't buy JF-17 because it isn't NATO compliant. Refurb aircraft most likely.

Most other countries like Venezuela and Poland are either in the Russian camp or the American camp. So, no point trying to pull them apart. The best bet is to get a proper contract done for the UAE deal. The Indian deal victory obviously helps reduce the cost big time. Pull in Brazil and Qatar after that and hope Kuwait joins in. I would say the Indian MRCA victory will help bag these countries easily as compared to before. 31st, Jan 2012 is definitely a very memorable day for Dassault and France.
Gawd, don't mention Venezuela and Poland in a discussion of Rafale sales potential . There are some parts of the world we simply have no sphere. India win gets rid of the biggest inhibitor to Rafale's export... no export. :laugh:
 

Kunal Biswas

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Serge Dassault confident about a first Rafale export soon ?



Sunday January 15, during a debate about French economic issues on I-Tele, Senator Serge Dassault, president of Groupe Dassault, estimates that good news about Rafale export could be announced soon. However, he didn't tell which country could be concerned by this export.
The current 3 main export prospects for the Rafale are India, the UAE and Brazil.
Source : i>TELE - A la une


The old man had a Vision or he knew from beginning:cool2:..
 

naive01

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I hope there will be no re tendering for the additional MMRCA's. It will just be a follow on order after the first 126 are delivered.
But if IN decides to go for naval fighters apart from the Mig 29's then there will be a fresh RFP.

My 2 cents.
 

Armand2REP

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Thinking about the RCS reduction of Rafale.. if you could have retractable canards for a "stealth mode" ie not dogfighting but penetration. It would go a long way with enclosed canisters. It could do a little transformer type move. Unfortunately there is no room in the current design for internal weapon bays, and you have to get rid of that butt ugly fuel probe. Should put it on par with export F-35.
 

Folk hero

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Thinking about the RCS reduction of Rafale.. if you could have retractable canards for a "stealth mode" ie not dogfighting but penetration. It would go a long way with enclosed canisters. It could do a little transformer type move. Unfortunately there is no room in the current design for internal weapon bays, and you have to get rid of that butt ugly fuel probe. Should put it on par with export F-35.
what kind of strings attached to Rafale or it's completely string free and about the stealth will dassault let us modify the air like that fuel probe or like US you will tel us you can't do this do that and so on, what i mean is what is policies regarding Rafale.
 

p2prada

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Rafale has not been designed for RCS reduction. It has a low RCS, but is not low observable.
 

I4U

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Australia won't buy a 4.5th gen aircraft. Their requirement is for a 5th gen. Only F-35 fits the bill. It is the same with Korea. But it may not be such a big problem to opt for Rafale if the requirement is small or is a Middle East country. A Brazil deal will be a major boost to any competing aircraft. Requirements will obviously play a key role here.
ausairpower.net published very worrying report about the weaknesses of F35 against the coming 4.5gen russian and chinese fighter. They traditionnaly are buying US assets, but in the present situation, they are really terrified by the lack of solution to keep a true airdominance in the 30 next years: if the F35 is sold, it will be a political choice, not a military one.
 

vanadium

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The B variant is meant to replace the Marine A-10 and Sea Harriers. The replacement aircraft is superior to both these aircraft. I am not sure if the B will do better than A-10 in CAS, but it will be efficient.

Australia won't buy a 4.5th gen aircraft. Their requirement is for a 5th gen. Only F-35 fits the bill. It is the same with Korea. But it may not be such a big problem to opt for Rafale if the requirement is small or is a Middle East country. A Brazil deal will be a major boost to any competing aircraft. Requirements will obviously play a key role here.
Do not want to sound pedantic, but as a matter of accuracy the F-35B is meant to replace the USMC´s Hornet and Harrier II (AV-8B). The F-35A will replace the USAF´s flying Gatling gun aka A-10. Not a very sexy machine but bloody efficient for its specific dedicated role.
 

Blackwater

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Yaroooo pls baksh do Rafael nu hun. Rafael wi khanda hona kithe phas gaya. For translation pls contact singh ji...:namaste::namaste::namaste::scared1::pound:
 

vanadium

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The Suisse National Council has opened an investigation on Gripen's "irregularities." Dassault then threw out a lower bid than Gripen as that is the reason for its selection. Suisse prosecutors are still miffed over the quashing of the Czech Gripen bribery so they want blood. It is far from over there, not even comparable to clean selection of Rafale in India.

Brasil will buy up to 100 FX fighters, 36 is not enough for such a rising power. Rafale already won it but was cancelled due to funding for natural disasters. Dilma is said to favour F18s, but US has not had good relations with Brasil so it is not likely. They still want the high ToT offer, the same as India.
I quite liked Dassault´s initiative of re-opening the game in Switzerland by re-submitting an unsolicited offer undercutting SAAB. What is the reaction of the Air Force and the political world?

Brazil will eventually replace not only the air defence line (Mirage 2000), but also the rest of the combat fleet (F-5E and AM-X). If you add also the eventual Navy requirement, you could come close to 100 a/c (72 for FAB + 24 Navy).

Interestingly in Brazil all three contenders have been, at some point in the competition, in the No.1 spot. Key driver there is ToT and the US do not deliver in that area. Dilma may just be posturing as she should do, anyhow. My view is Gripen or Rafale. Given the threat level and the chronically low budget for O&S, I guess the FAB might realistically go for the single engined fighter. Even though Rafale is a more capable machine.
 

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