India's Neutron bomb capability

Discussion in 'Strategic Forces' started by LETHALFORCE, Mar 25, 2009.

  1. tharikiran

    tharikiran Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2009
    Messages:
    734
    Likes Received:
    823
    Location:
    Hyderabad,India
    domain-b.com : Indian Army clears BrahMos Block II for induction

    The DRDO is already developing a long range, high sub-sonic, cruise missile, Nirbhay, for deployment with all three services. The stealth, terrain-hugging cruise missile is tipped to have a range in the proximity of 1,000 km.

    Guess, the above lines satisfy all doubters. If not brahmos, face the chin music from Nirbhay.
     
  2. Officer of Engineers

    Officer of Engineers Defence Professionals Defence Professionals

    Joined:
    May 22, 2009
    Messages:
    650
    Likes Received:
    11
    Guess you've missed the high SUB-sonic part.
     
  3. ppgj

    ppgj Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2009
    Messages:
    2,029
    Likes Received:
    163
    yes it is in development but it is subsonic like a tomahawk. so it can be guided.
     
  4. tharikiran

    tharikiran Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2009
    Messages:
    734
    Likes Received:
    823
    Location:
    Hyderabad,India
    I knew you all will be looking at the subsonic part.
    You should look at the word before terrain hugging.

    It's stealth. :) still does the job mate.
     
  5. tharikiran

    tharikiran Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2009
    Messages:
    734
    Likes Received:
    823
    Location:
    Hyderabad,India
    Forget the above post. let's talk about the hypersonic cruise missile.

    During war, multiple missiles will be launched. Ground radar of Patriot covers 100 km.
    As, I have said before, it will give the ground operator 20 seconds to do all the calculations from trajectory to direction.He, then also has to decide whether it's friend or foe.

    Now, I am talking about a single missile.If 20-30 are launched at any given point of time, it will overwhelm the ground operator . By the time they decide its friend or foe and launch the patriot.It will be too late. By the way patriot goes hypersonic within 5 seconds.The main problem I see with patriot is it's ground radar . Anything out of 100 km range and it can't do anything.
     
  6. tharikiran

    tharikiran Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2009
    Messages:
    734
    Likes Received:
    823
    Location:
    Hyderabad,India
  7. Officer of Engineers

    Officer of Engineers Defence Professionals Defence Professionals

    Joined:
    May 22, 2009
    Messages:
    650
    Likes Received:
    11
    20-30 on a single target? That is some high priority target.
     
  8. Officer of Engineers

    Officer of Engineers Defence Professionals Defence Professionals

    Joined:
    May 22, 2009
    Messages:
    650
    Likes Received:
    11
    You do know that the supersonic/hypersonic horses are supposed to kick in during the final phase. The rest of the time, the bird is subsonic.
     
  9. tharikiran

    tharikiran Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2009
    Messages:
    734
    Likes Received:
    823
    Location:
    Hyderabad,India
    That's how wars are . Aren't they sir. You must be knowing better.

    lets say, karachi harbour. That's a high value target.Guess, you will agree with that.Let's say Pakistan deploys multiple batteries of patriots to protect karachi.

    Knowing this, India overwhelms the patriot ground radars and crew with multiple launches of hypersonic cruise missiles. Forget 20-30. It will be more.
     
  10. hit&run

    hit&run Elite Member Elite Member

    Joined:
    May 29, 2009
    Messages:
    8,566
    Likes Received:
    17,883

    Pro.:
    1. Why whould india scheme deterrence when there is short of explicit statement by opponent that they have been already deterred.(As far as Neutron bomb is concerned).

    2.How you will explain that peace is because of deterrence measures in whole or in part or may be due to some another pressures(pakistan= US pressure) or desire(china= US factor) of opponent.

    Con.:

    1. Why India should think like NATO not Russia, In full scale war all three Surgical(neutron), Atom and conventional are complementary to each other.

    2. Why India will waste time in decision making dilemma like NATO forces or would wait for super boss's decision to intervene.

    3. Even in absence of Neutron bomb (very contemporary) the war will reach(nuclear) strategic levels with the blink of an eye. why you wont predetermine the out come in your favour by striking first.
     
  11. tharikiran

    tharikiran Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2009
    Messages:
    734
    Likes Received:
    823
    Location:
    Hyderabad,India
    For your information Brahmos is super sonic through out its flight.

    BRAHMOS Supersonic Cruise Missile - BrahMos.com

    I am still doubtful about terrain hugging though. But it does have a variety of flight trajectories it can use.
     
  12. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2009
    Messages:
    22,838
    Likes Received:
    14,374
    Pro.:
    1. Why whould india scheme deterrence when there is short of explicit statement by opponent that they have been already deterred.(As far as Neutron bomb is concerned).

    this article is old around the pokran test, but for our scientist to be making this claim after the tests if something they would not do if they were not confident, US at that time believed in a balanced India /pakistan relation and did not want india to gain an advatage by having a weapon that pakistan did not have would be the most obvious reason.


    2.How you will explain that peace is because of deterrence measures in whole or in part or may be due to some another pressures(pakistan= US pressure) or desire(china= US factor) of opponent.

    Con.:

    1. Why India should think like NATO not Russia, In full scale war all three Surgical(neutron), Atom and conventional are complementary to each other.

    they are complimentary and like all weapons each has their use for specific reasons.


    2. Why India will waste time in decision making dilemma like NATO forces or would wait for super boss's decision to intervene.

    3. Even in absence of Neutron bomb (very contemporary) the war will reach(nuclear) strategic levels with the blink of an eye. why you wont predetermine the out come in your favour by striking first.

    neutron bomb would give India an advantage of having a weapon which can devastate like nukes without the fallout reaching India as it would from a nuke, depending on how deeply it was used. This is a clear cut advantage and makes this weapon a very viable weapon in the arsenal.
     
  13. Officer of Engineers

    Officer of Engineers Defence Professionals Defence Professionals

    Joined:
    May 22, 2009
    Messages:
    650
    Likes Received:
    11
    I don't like using high value assets for cannon fodder. While overwhelming defences would work, I rather use dumb old SCUDs (cheaper and if they get through, well good but their primary job is to waste interceptors).

    That's a pretty big if that Paks would get PATs, maybe Chinese versions of the S-300s.

    However, why would you want to go force-on-force? Brahmos is accurate enough that you can go for LOCs instead of assembly points, take out a bridge instead of a port.

    Like the American 800 cruise missile strike on Baghdad?
     
  14. Officer of Engineers

    Officer of Engineers Defence Professionals Defence Professionals

    Joined:
    May 22, 2009
    Messages:
    650
    Likes Received:
    11
    I so stand corrected.
     
  15. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2009
    Messages:
    24,292
    Likes Received:
    11,498
    Location:
    BANGalore
    LF,
    There is a defense against the neutron bombs. So there is no strategic value with that weapon.
     
  16. tharikiran

    tharikiran Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2009
    Messages:
    734
    Likes Received:
    823
    Location:
    Hyderabad,India
    It seems brahmos has a terminal sea skimming capability while maintaining supersonic speeds.
    On launch it climbs to 14000-15000m for cruise phase. 40 km's away from the target it descends to sea skimming altitude. The closing speed is about 750m/sec which increases its kinetic energy to extreme heights.
    290kms distance is achieved in lo/hi/lo flight profile. We need to remember that it can use a variety of trajectories.

    Guess, its time to get back to the topic of neutron bomb.
     
  17. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2009
    Messages:
    22,838
    Likes Received:
    14,374
    The defense of building a swimming pool is not a practical defense IMO ,simple question where will the swimming pool be built will you know the exact location?? water may work as a shield but Heavy water d20 is what is really used is anyone knows the basics of neutron absorption in nuclear reactors it is heavy water that is used, so with a swimming pool of heavy water in the exact location i would agree on this defense.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heavy_water
     
  18. tharikiran

    tharikiran Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2009
    Messages:
    734
    Likes Received:
    823
    Location:
    Hyderabad,India
    However, why would you want to go force-on-force? Brahmos is accurate enough that you can go for LOCs instead of assembly points, take out a bridge instead of a port.

    I was only giving a example of some target and some scenario.Pakistan gets PAC-2, PAC-3 is irrelevant.But, it's a fact that in case of war, karachi will be shut down/ taken down.
    Now, we will use brahmos,pruthvi, agni is not for me to decide.I am purely talking a hypothetical battle field scenario of patriots versus hypersonic cruise missiles.
     
  19. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2009
    Messages:
    24,292
    Likes Received:
    11,498
    Location:
    BANGalore
    As the west has already been there, done that, it's better we not waste our resources on it.

    Use of neutron weapons also means we give the enemy the reason to use their own nukes in retaliation.

    And from what has been said about use of neutron weapons and how it hinders your own troops advance, we might as well go for 1000 lb JDAMs if we could have them. And lots of them. That would flatten a lot of things.
     
  20. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2009
    Messages:
    22,838
    Likes Received:
    14,374
    we have a NFU policy so i would assume this to be a second strike weapon, we have wasted resources on much more and this is something that has not been confirmed that we have, but like all things people will be for it and against it. I am speaking for the record i am for it.
     

Share This Page