India's Neutron bomb capability

Yusuf

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we have a NFU policy so i would assume this to be a second strike weapon, we have wasted resources on much more and this is something that has not been confirmed that we have, but like all things people will be for it and against it. I am speaking for the record i am for it.
Oh it cannot be a second strike weapon. If it comes to second strike we will throw everything at them including the kitchen sink. Neutron bombs are not a second strike weapon esp when I know that C2 can be saved in that. You want to destroy and kill.
 

LETHALFORCE

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Oh it cannot be a second strike weapon. If it comes to second strike we will throw everything at them including the kitchen sink. Neutron bombs are not a second strike weapon esp when I know that C2 can be saved in that. You want to destroy and kill.
yusuf in throwing everything at them, we will kill ourselves too from radiation posioning , this weapon would avoid that.
 

hit&run

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Pro.:
this article is old around the pokran test, but for our scientist to be making this claim after the tests if something they would not do if they were not confident, US at that time believed in a balanced India /pakistan relation and
did not want india to gain an advatage by having a weapon that pakistan did not have would be the most obvious reason.

they are complimentary and like all weapons each has their use for specific reasons.

neutron bomb would give India an advantage of having a weapon which can devastate like nukes without the fallout reaching India as it would from a nuke, depending on how deeply it was used. This is a clear cut advantage and makes this weapon a very viable weapon in the arsenal.
^^^Thats different story, It will never have any advantage.

In case of china and India both countries will have ample time to consider nuclear options and may conceivably fight and finish limited(most likely) war without resort to it.

We are born forward(nuclear warhead positioning), as far as Pakistan is concerned. Damage to friendly population cant be ruled out. Even a short delay in decision making will bust any neutron bomb advantage cause either you will be entrenched into their territory or they will be eating their breakfast in Jaipur.

In case of india and pakistan or may be china; even if winning conventional war and with clean?/improvised more in advantage (neutron) bomb; don't you think one will use strategic nuclear weapons as preemptive measure against increasingly probable use of nuclear weapon by opponent. Specially when Pakistan is not having NFU policy.
 

LETHALFORCE

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^^^Thats different story, It will never have any advantage.

In case of china and India both countries will have ample time to consider nuclear options and may conceivably fight and finish limited(most likely) war without resort to it.

We are born forward(nuclear warhead positioning), as far as Pakistan is concerned. Damage to friendly population cant be ruled out. Even a short delay in decision making will bust any neutron bomb advantage cause either you will be entrenched into their territory or they will be eating there breakfast in Jaipur.

In case of india and pakistan or may be china; even if winning conventional war and with clean?/improvised more in advantage (neutron) bomb; don't you think one will use strategic nuclear weapons as preemptive measure against increasingly probable use of its nuclear weapon. Specially when Pakistan is not having NFU policy.
Pakistan is targetting our major cities so they want to kill as many as they can with their nukes but we cannot target innocent people, but our retaliation should also be appropriate where it dosen't kill us our poison the land and water for generations, we have a no first use policy, pakistan does not so we are unlikely to be an aggressor we will lose a couple of cities like delhi or bombay or more, before we act but this can be a weapon in our arsenal not our complete arsenal.
 

LETHALFORCE

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Oh it cannot be a second strike weapon. If it comes to second strike we will throw everything at them including the kitchen sink. Neutron bombs are not a second strike weapon esp when I know that C2 can be saved in that. You want to destroy and kill.
yusuf you see no role for this weapon , i do let's agree on that. There may come a time when we may not have a no first use policy and it may not, but let's leave it at that.
 

LETHALFORCE

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^^^Thats different story, It will never have any advantage.

In case of china and India both countries will have ample time to consider nuclear options and may conceivably fight and finish limited(most likely) war without resort to it.

We are born forward(nuclear warhead positioning), as far as Pakistan is concerned. Damage to friendly population cant be ruled out. Even a short delay in decision making will bust any neutron bomb advantage cause either you will be entrenched into their territory or they will be eating their breakfast in Jaipur.

In case of india and pakistan or may be china; even if winning conventional war and with clean?/improvised more in advantage (neutron) bomb; don't you think one will use strategic nuclear weapons as preemptive measure against increasingly probable use of its nuclear weapon. Specially when Pakistan is not having NFU policy.

HR if both countries are ganging up on India(like currently) i think we should leave our options open, i am sure they will use nuclear and I know we will suffer tremendous damage before any political will to do anything forget offensive; i don't even expect in a defensive sense, for a weapon like this we need a political will that we have never had that in our history and we will not have in the forseeable future;so no need for anyone to worry this kind of weapon is highly unlikely to be pursued by the government no matter what the scientists claim.
 

Daredevil

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For your information Brahmos is super sonic through out its flight.

BRAHMOS Supersonic Cruise Missile - BrahMos.com

I am still doubtful about terrain hugging though. But it does have a variety of flight trajectories it can use.
It cannot be terrain hugging because it needs altitude to generate the supersonic speeds and hit the targets with high kinetic energy. Making supersonic missiles 'terrain-hugging' is a very difficult thing. Even Brahmos never claimed it to be terrain-hugging.
 

Yusuf

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yusuf in throwing everything at them, we will kill ourselves too from radiation posioning , this weapon would avoid that.
I don't think we will be worrying about that after suffering from a first strike.

Also so far the discussion was mostly of it's use as a tactical weapon which is ruled out.
 

tharikiran

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It cannot be terrain hugging because it needs altitude to generate the supersonic speeds and hit the targets with high kinetic energy. Making supersonic missiles 'terrain-hugging' is a very difficult thing. Even Brahmos never claimed it to be terrain-hugging.
As of now, terminal phase, 40 km from target, it descends to sea skimming level.
Claims to fly at 10 meters.
 

hit&run

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HR if both countries are ganging up on India(like currently) i think we should leave our options open, i am sure they will use nuclear and I know we will suffer tremendous damage before any political will to do anything forget offensive i don't even expect in a defensive sense, for a weapon like this we need a political will and we have never had that in our history so no need for anyone to worry this kind of weapon is highly unlikely to be pursued by the government no matter what the scientists claim.
See, to avoid a war with Pakistan and china vise a verse you don't need water proof strategic nuclear deterrence with all types of bombs in your arsenal as far as India is concerned till this date. TRUST ME I CAN PROVE.

To be prepared or to have political will against so called gang is not the salvation but to believe in present circumstances is.(one should utilize/show restrain and grow) !!!

If Pakistan has a professional army, they will stop continue to have their classical approach of targeting all major cities of India etc in case of war.

It is a win win situation for india as far as Pakistan is concerned, i think. china has many other things to do before announcing her self being neutron bomb capable(tactical).
 

LETHALFORCE

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china has the neutron bomb

CNN - China acknowledges development of neutron bomb technology - July 15, 1999

China acknowledges development of neutron bomb technology


July 15, 1999
Web posted at: 5:50 a.m. EDT (0950 GMT)


BEIJING -- Seeking to further discredit U.S. allegations that it stole American nuclear weapons technology, China said Thursday that its scientists had long ago developed their own neutron bomb.

China exploded its first neutron bomb 11 years ago, something widely known in the international community. However, in keeping with the secretive nature of China's military establishment, apparently no public announcements were made by officials or the state-run media.

In a presentation intended to refute accusations by a U.S. congressional committee that China had stolen such technology, chief government spokesman Zhao Qizheng noted that Chinese scientists had developed a neutron bomb on their own.

Threatened by the Cold War nuclear arms race between the United States and the Soviet Union, "China had no choice but to carry out research and development of nuclear weapons technology and improve its nuclear weapons systems, mastering in succession the neutron bomb design technology and the nuclear weapon miniaturization technology," Zhao said.

Zhao noted that since China had already mastered atom bomb and hydrogen bomb technology, it was "quite logical and natural for it to master the neutron bomb technology through its own efforts over a short period of time."


The spying allegations made by the congressional committee, headed by U.S. Rep. Christopher Cox, R-California, have led China to document in greater detail than before its own weapons research and development programs.

Zhao characterized the findings of the committee's report as "utterly absurd" and "racist," saying the implication was that the Chinese would not have been able to develop advanced technology without resorting to theft -- "The Chinese can't be as smart as the Americans, therefore they must have stolen the technology," Zhao said.

Asked if he thought the Cox report was linked in any way to NATO's May 7 bombing of the Chinese Embassy in Yugoslavia, Zhao said he saw no connection.

But he urged the U.S. side to clearly explain the reason for the bombing. The probability that the bombing occurred through a series of errors, as Washington maintains, was "near zero," he said.

Zhao's comments came as a U.S. State Department legal adviser opened discussions at China's Foreign Ministry on Thursday on compensation for the bombing. The attack killed three Chinese journalists, injured more than 20 diplomats and sent U.S.-China ties to their lowest point in decades.

China cut off talks with the United States on trade, human rights and other issues after the attack. They remain suspended.

'Kills people while leaving infrastructure in place'

Neutron bombs are nuclear bombs with higher levels of radiation and lower levels of explosive power.

"What that means is that it kills people while leaving infrastructure in place," said Robert Karniol, Bangkok-based Asian correspondent of Jane's Defense Weekly.

"You can sort of blow up a city and kill everybody in the city but the buildings don't get destroyed," he said. Karniol said he did not know how far China had advanced its neutron program.

China is one of the world's five declared nuclear powers, along with the United States, Russia, Britain and France.

India and rival Pakistan conducted nuclear tests last year, and both have missiles and are considered capable of arming them with nuclear warheads.
 

hit&run

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yusuf you see no role for this weapon , i do let's agree on that. There may come a time when we may not have a no first use policy and it may not, but let's leave it at that.
I have answered to you already LF in my second post when we be having no NFU policy. If we have started saying that we may need to review this policy it means we have already.

you can not avoid nuclear war in full scale conflict in future. At present there is no need to develop, let Pakistan and china announce neutron bomb capabilites (after test) and jeopardise their status co with India.( as mentioned/indicated in my above post).
 

hit&run

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china has the neutron bomb

CNN - China acknowledges development of neutron bomb technology - July 15, 1999

China acknowledges development of neutron bomb technology


July 15, 1999
Web posted at: 5:50 a.m. EDT (0950 GMT)


BEIJING -- Seeking to further discredit U.S. allegations that it stole American nuclear weapons technology, China said Thursday that its scientists had long ago developed their own neutron bomb.

China exploded its first neutron bomb 11 years ago, something widely known in the international community. However, in keeping with the secretive nature of China's military establishment, apparently no public announcements were made by officials or the state-run media.

In a presentation intended to refute accusations by a U.S. congressional committee that China had stolen such technology, chief government spokesman Zhao Qizheng noted that Chinese scientists had developed a neutron bomb on their own.

Threatened by the Cold War nuclear arms race between the United States and the Soviet Union, "China had no choice but to carry out research and development of nuclear weapons technology and improve its nuclear weapons systems, mastering in succession the neutron bomb design technology and the nuclear weapon miniaturization technology," Zhao said.

Zhao noted that since China had already mastered atom bomb and hydrogen bomb technology, it was "quite logical and natural for it to master the neutron bomb technology through its own efforts over a short period of time."


The spying allegations made by the congressional committee, headed by U.S. Rep. Christopher Cox, R-California, have led China to document in greater detail than before its own weapons research and development programs.

Zhao characterized the findings of the committee's report as "utterly absurd" and "racist," saying the implication was that the Chinese would not have been able to develop advanced technology without resorting to theft -- "The Chinese can't be as smart as the Americans, therefore they must have stolen the technology," Zhao said.

Asked if he thought the Cox report was linked in any way to NATO's May 7 bombing of the Chinese Embassy in Yugoslavia, Zhao said he saw no connection.

But he urged the U.S. side to clearly explain the reason for the bombing. The probability that the bombing occurred through a series of errors, as Washington maintains, was "near zero," he said.

Zhao's comments came as a U.S. State Department legal adviser opened discussions at China's Foreign Ministry on Thursday on compensation for the bombing. The attack killed three Chinese journalists, injured more than 20 diplomats and sent U.S.-China ties to their lowest point in decades.

China cut off talks with the United States on trade, human rights and other issues after the attack. They remain suspended.

'Kills people while leaving infrastructure in place'

Neutron bombs are nuclear bombs with higher levels of radiation and lower levels of explosive power.

"What that means is that it kills people while leaving infrastructure in place," said Robert Karniol, Bangkok-based Asian correspondent of Jane's Defense Weekly.

"You can sort of blow up a city and kill everybody in the city but the buildings don't get destroyed," he said. Karniol said he did not know how far China had advanced its neutron program.

China is one of the world's five declared nuclear powers, along with the United States, Russia, Britain and France.

India and rival Pakistan conducted nuclear tests last year, and both have missiles and are considered capable of arming them with nuclear warheads.
LF i understand your noble concern (effort to alert) about this whole topic and i know you are aware of what we are trying to say. BTW i have already read this article before typing my posts.

I can post a link where Pakistan is mentioned as capable of having Neutron bomb.

1. Do you think we can not develop (or do not have) Neutron bomb in given time.

2. Again; will/is Neutron bomb giving any advantage to china against USA, RUSSIA as later are many folds advanced to operate. Is this so called neutron bomb will give any advantage against india to china cause we are already not advanced in even conventional war? if you are china will you use tactical nukes against indian army and wont expect nuclear war on strategic levels?

3.We simply can not afford this topic 'LF' cause we are developing more deep strategic partnership with USA which is also throwing open doors of Europe for us. I will go for neutron bomb if world will end before 2020 as most of the pakistanis or may be chines are thinking on different online discussion forums.
 

LETHALFORCE

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LF i understand your noble concern (effort to alert) about this whole topic and i know you are aware of what we are trying to say. BTW i have already read this article before typing my posts.

I can post a link where Pakistan is mentioned as capable of having Neutron bomb.
HR you are more than welcome to, i would not doubt that Pakistan has one.


1. Do you think we can not develop (or do not have) Neutron bomb in given time.

we can develop one but soon our hands will be chained by NPT,MCTR ,CTBTetc...many will argue this but i think the government will eventually be chained to these treaties.even if developed i don't know how or if our computers can do simulations?

2. Again; will/is Neutron bomb giving any advantage to china against USA, RUSSIA as later are many folds advanced to operate. Is this so called neutron bomb will give any advantage against india to china cause we are already not advanced in even conventional war? if you are china will you use tactical nukes against indian army and wont expect nuclear war on strategic levels?

3.We simply can not afford this topic 'LF' cause we are developing more deep strategic partnership with USA which is also throwing open doors of Europe for us. I will go for neutron bomb if world will end before 2020 as most of the pakistanis or may be chines are thinking on different online discussion forums.

I agree HR we should stay focus on development, but we will reach a point in the future where we will have to choose between development and national security and our neighbors are trying to have us reach that point as early as possible.
 

Blademaster

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LF,

Are you not reading what the others are saying?! Neutron nukess do not work as advertised!! Because it can be easily counteracted. Who in their right mind would detonate a nuke in their own land hoping to kill off the infiltrators? Doing so would render that portion of land unhabitable for thousands of years!!

As for others doing so, well have you ever considered that the others have done the research and built it and then only to realize what a waste of time and resources it was to develop neutron nukes?

[mod] No Personal Attacks of Any Sort Tolerated! [/mod]
 

hit&run

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HR you are more than welcome to, i would not doubt that Pakistan has one.

we can develop one but soon our hands will be chained by NPT,MCTR ,CTBTetc...many will argue this but i think the government will eventually be chained to these treaties.even if developed i don't know how or if our computers can do simulations?

I agree HR we should stay focus on development, but we will reach a point in the future where we will have to choose between development and national security and our neighbors are trying to have us reach that point as early as possible.
it is just like switching on and off a button even after these locked chains.

Any way I have to sign in for that article and make an account, i will post it tomorrow cause i am very late now its 03:56 am in Sydney. gotta go..
Always nice talking/typing :) to you. Bye
 

Blademaster

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lets say, karachi harbour. That's a high value target.Guess, you will agree with that.Let's say Pakistan deploys multiple batteries of patriots to protect karachi.

Knowing this, India overwhelms the patriot ground radars and crew with multiple launches of hypersonic cruise missiles. Forget 20-30. It will be more.
You got $2 billion dollars lying around? Do you realize that each missile cost 2-3 million a pop and it would require the order of 800 missiles to do what you are asking for? Remember Baghdad got hit with 800 such missiles and it was still functioning.
 

Blademaster

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Ok, what part of the incoming SCUD was the proximity fuse programmed aimed for?
Jesus, sir....

Sir, the proximity fuse isn't programmed to blow when it comes close to tail.

Try to understand the word proximity.target is at a certain distance and explosion takes place. That's all.
Are you trying to be a smart aleck? OOE served as a combat engineer and he knows what proximity fuses are all about up the yin and yang.

You missed the point what he was referring to. Obviously you ain't gotten a clue what he was trying to tell you. Proximity fuses do not work in one setting for all types of missiles. Different types of missiles work at different speeds and heights and trajectories. Moreover, you need to hit the right part of the missile. If you hit the wrong part of the missile, the warhead will just separate and hit a different target.
 

LETHALFORCE

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LF,

Are you not reading what the others are saying?! Neutron nukess do not work as advertised!! Because it can be easily counteracted. Who in their right mind would detonate a nuke in their own land hoping to kill off the infiltrators? Doing so would render that portion of land unhabitable for thousands of years!!

As for others doing so, well have you ever considered that the others have done the research and built it and then only to realize what a waste of time and resources it was to develop neutron nukes?

[mod] No Personal Attacks of Any Sort Tolerated! [/mod]
can you tell me how they are counteracted with a link?? why would you detonate one in your own land?? get your facts straight neutron bombs leave infrastructure intact nukes make the land unhabitable Neutron bombs to a lesser degree. it was a waste of time-are you sure?? was it for USA who reportedly have used one in Iraq?? please get your facts straight ignorant fanboy.

Iraqi fugitive claims U.S. forces used neutron bomb during '03 airport battle - On Deadline - USATODAY.com

raj USA allegedly used a Neutron Bomb in 2003 in Iraq

US accused of using neutron bombs in Iraq, page 1

Did U.S. use neutron bomb in Battle of Baghdad?

US Used Neutron to Take Baghdad : Politics Right
 

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