Indian Special Forces (archived)

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ALBY

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Why we looking at he SCAR L (HK 416 is a 100% out) when we can just place an emergency order for the Caracal ?

Scar H I can understand and its worth its weight in gold.
When we are buying Sigs, why order ScarHs? It may be slightly better than Sigs, but not too good to justify the price difference.
Agree on your take on Scar-L as there is point in going for them when a deal had been cut with Caracal.
The only sensible purchase is that of Mk28 LMGs.
 

ezsasa

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I'm surprised that these small items are stuck in red tape.
GoI had given authority to the Army under vice chief to procure critical weapons.
https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/army-vice-chief-can-make-emergency-buys/article19265478.ece
This was done in 2017 and enhanced again 2018
https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...-by-5-times/articleshow/66547181.cms?from=mdr
Relax sir, this will happen by end of this year if modi comes back..

200 million $ procurement at a time when only interim budget is in place and at a time of general elections, will not happen.

On a lighter note: looks like IA needs to hire some civilians (gujjus or Sindhis) under their payroll in their procurement department. Procurement is an art, it is not everybody’s cup of tea..
 

rkhanna

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When we are buying Sigs, why order ScarHs? It may be slightly better than Sigs, but not too good to justify the price difference.
Agree on your take on Scar-L as there is point in going for them when a deal had been cut with Caracal.
The only sensible purchase is that of Mk28 LMGs.
The only advantage of the Scar heavy is that it makes one hell of a DMR at extreme ranges will replace galil and dragnov .

The SIG being a brand new rifle/system will go through teething problems . (Like the tavors did ) . The SCAR would just be better out of the box and can be pressed into service faster
 

rkhanna

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No I don't. That wasn't the point.
Surely it's not that difficult to comprehend what I meant earlier.
Yes you are right. Accept my apologies. Didn't read the full article to understand the context.

And no SF don't strip weapons off jihadis to fill the armoury. Weapons taken off militants are actually used for deniable ops and ikhwaans (though they got disbanded )

But weapons off jihadis do find themselves with the JK SOG /Police etc - at the end of the day we are a poor country with limited resources.

And unfortunately or fortunately even this govt won't be able to change the reality all that much
 

Maddy_9UY

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Why we looking at he SCAR L (HK 416 is a 100% out) when we can just place an emergency order for the Caracal ?

Scar H I can understand and its worth its weight in gold.
Is it possible that the government wants SF to use Sig and Caracal, so they are delaying this process?
 

Immanuel

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Actually a mix of weapons is fine, as long as we do fuck about with too many caliber types. HK, SIG, SCAR are all welcome. This way operators can use the weapon of their choice, better for results.
 

debspark90

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Why we looking at he SCAR L (HK 416 is a 100% out) when we can just place an emergency order for the Caracal ?

Scar H I can understand and its worth its weight in gold.
We are infact buying the Car816 rifles that are even better than the HK416 and some older SBRs. This was designed by the same German and US designer duo.
 
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debspark90

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When we are buying Sigs, why order ScarHs? It may be slightly better than Sigs, but not too good to justify the price difference.
Agree on your take on Scar-L as there is point in going for them when a deal had been cut with Caracal.
The only sensible purchase is that of Mk28 LMGs.
Well the recoil management and stability of the ScarH is best in terms of a BR. There is a reason why it is so costly and preferred by SFs only.
 

Wisemarko

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The Indian Army is miffed by delays in Rs 1,000-crore equipment proposal to buy urgently required equipment for its nine Para-Special Forces (Para-SF) battalions from the US. Disagreements within the ministry saw the proposals to acquire new assault rifles, night vision devices and machine guns being dropped from the agenda of a March 20 meeting of the Defence Acquisition Committee.

A contingent of Indian Army's parachute regiment, including special forces, doubles past the saluting dais on Republic Day in Delhi. (Photo: PTI)

Top Ministry of Defence (MoD) officials want the equipment to be purchased through the Foreign Military Sales (FMS) route from the US, to be broken up into smaller procurements of Rs 300 crores and acquired by the Army under its own financial powers. This process, sources say, could further delay acquisitions by another six months.

The shopping list includes 715 Mk 48 Light Machine Guns (LMGs), 1,050 FN Scar (H) 7.62x51 assault rifles, 1,400 FN Scar (L) or HK-416 assault rifles, 110 .50 Cal Browning heavy machine guns (HMG), 400 helmet-mounted night vision systems, 600 combat free fall parachutes, 100 Barret M107 A1 heavy sniping rifles and 20 million rounds of ammunition for all of these small arms. The proposals are part of fast-tracking of Para-SF buys initiated after September 29, 2016, cross-border raids on terrorist launch pads in Pakistan-occupied Kashmir (PoK). It is the most comprehensive re-equipping of the Para-SF in over two decades.

Army Para Special Forces Requirements

Equipment Quantity
Mk 48 light machine guns 715
FN Scar (H) assault rifles 1,050
Scar (L) / HK-416 assault rifles 1,400
FN .50 Cal Browning heavy machine guns 110
Helmet mounted night vision goggles 400
Combat free fall parachutes 600
Barret M107 A1 heavy sniping rifles 100
Ammunition rounds 20 (M)
Indian Army’s SF units drew the list based on evaluations done after joint exercises with the US Special Operations Command (SOCOM). Each acquisition fulfils a critical void. The .50/ 12.7 mm HMGs are meant to be fitted on the Light Strike Vehicle (LSVs) being procured from Pune-based Force Motors over the next three months.

The 7.62 x 51 mm FN Scar, made by a US unit of Belgium’s FN Herstal, is required to upgrade the firepower of SF operators in dense jungles of the Northeast and Myanmar. The case for a new lightweight belt-fed 7.62 x 51 machine gun to replace 50-year old OFBmade ‘1B’ LMGs, has been pending since 2005. The LMGs are critical squad support weapons giving the small six-unit teams of the Para-SF units heavy firepower.

Procurement of arms from the US for the Indian Army SF is still in the pipeline. (Representational image: Reuters)

In their absence, SF units resorted to stripping machine guns from de-commissioned battle tanks or using weapons recovered from militants. This procurement is part of a larger upgrade which includes Finnish Sako sniper rifles, Carl Gustaf Mark-4 rocket launchers and Beretta pistols and LSVs.

The last major acquisitions for the Para-SF a decade ago were also FMS procurements from the US.

(Courtesy of Mail Today)

Link: https://www.dailyo.in/politics/para...try-of-defence-indian-army/story/1/30043.html
Purchase is not stuck in red tape. The process of buying traditionally through MOD requires more paperwork and lengthy acquisition process including tender and competitive bidding.
Buying in small increments of roughly $40 million per contract through new policy (same way bought Barrett and Beretta sniper rifles recently) via Army funds is simple, quick and without bidding process. Almost all the demand in the list will get stuck in competitive bidding hence the recommendation to buy through army funds in small batches.
 

Bhadra

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Lo ! many are showing their expertise in suggesting what should the SF units buy ....
I am am amused..

SF units worldover generally have a magazine of almost all the weapons, ammunition and equipment available in the world. Before the mission the commander and soldiers go there and pick up their choice of weapons and equipment. After all how much is required 400 each unit. That is nothing.

But look here there some commentators who are exhibiting their "Gyan" as to what should be bought and what not.

million dollars value being extracted out of "Freedom of Speech" .

Mauf Karo bhai. Kisi ko marane / maarane bhej raho to usko usaki choice ka hathyar to de do. Agar kuchh karana hi hai to halla karo ki MoD kyon nahin man rahi ?
 

MuzzleVelocity

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Is there any indication that the Special Forces are finally looking to upgrade their communication systems? Because that's something we majorly lack at the moment.
 

mohitbhagat

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The only advantage of the Scar heavy is that it makes one hell of a DMR at extreme ranges will replace galil and dragnov .

The SIG being a brand new rifle/system will go through teething problems . (Like the tavors did ) . The SCAR would just be better out of the box and can be pressed into service faster
That's not scar 17 but scar mk20....... Scar 17 is a battle rifle and is not designed to be a DMR.
 
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