Indian Air Force Light Combat Aircraft Tejas India's Second Supersonic Fighter

Discussion in 'Military Multimedia' started by WolfPack86, May 30, 2016.

  1. Enquirer

    Enquirer Senior Member Senior Member

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    Yep. The math works!
    40 - Mk1
    83 - Mk1A
    201 - Mk2

    324/18 = 18 Squadrons!!! (18 aircraft per squadron!)
     
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  2. kamaal

    kamaal Regular Member

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    By not ordering more MK1A IAF is not encouraging pvt industries to participate in LCA and develop a robust Aero industry. They must commit to MK1A, MK2 is distant future/dream for now. Must concentrate on current jet and think about foreign market.

    Nobody knows what will happen to MK2 by 2025-26. Also HAL has no business left once MK1A finishes production in 2025-26 as MK2 will take at least 4 years to clear all the operational clearance stages.
     
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  3. Advaidhya Tiwari

    Advaidhya Tiwari Senior Member Senior Member

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    MK2 development will be complete by 2025 and production will start immediately. Mk2 will be heavily based on MK1 and hence easier to make as well as manufacture from existing LCA MK1 infrastructure.
     
  4. Adioz

    Adioz शक्तिः दुर्दम्येच्छाशक्त्याः आगच्छति Senior Member

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    AFAIK, Tejas squadrons have 20 aircraft each (18 Single seat + 2 Trainer).
    So 324/20 = 16 squadrons + 4 aircraft for TACDE.
    But the 18 squadrons would mean: 18*20 = 360 aircraft.

    Maybe it really is just 18 per squadron ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
     
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  5. arya

    arya Senior Member Senior Member

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    Guys rest of world moving 5 & 6t gen planes & we are talking about MK1 & MK2 . Pls donot make joke of IAF.

    We need to invest in future technolgy , in my view we should go for either PAKFA or f22 + our won 5 th project .

    Govt & IAF don't need to invest time & money in MK2 in my view
     
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  6. Adioz

    Adioz शक्तिः दुर्दम्येच्छाशक्त्याः आगच्छति Senior Member

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    In case you have not heard (ofc you have), we are also moving on to 5th gen fighters with an indigenous program: AMCA. So we are investing in future tech.

    6th gen fighters are not going to be here for a long long time. Decades. Nobody has the monetary appetite for it after right after they finish developing expensive 5th gen fighters.

    Nobody is making a joke on IAF. IAF is in dire need of a large number of fourth generation fighters. Its better if we meet the lion's share of that need with an indigenous fighter and some imports of Rafale. And this is why the Indian Air Force itself has committed to 324+ / 18 squadrons of Tejas fighters.

    We don't have time or money to be relying solely on imports for arresting and increasing the falling squadron numbers of the IAF. Tejas is the only way forward.
     
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  7. arya

    arya Senior Member Senior Member

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    Right sir we dont have time & money for experiment , we should give fighter planes to IAF under make in india . well we all know about AMCA do u know china is flying his 5 th gen planes and what about our ??

    we are still testing our LCA .

    Its not about ego its about national security . in my view govt should buy adance fighter planes under make in india with TOT .

    Future is 5.5 gen planes & drones. we should think & act for future china is make hyper-sonic missile .we should make that one .
     
  8. kamaal

    kamaal Regular Member

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    HAL/ADA/IAF don't understand the word "Start Immediately". MK1A was thought during 2015 and what has happened after 3 years is still not known to any one. 3 years, for just integrating AESA, EWS & reducing some weight from the airframe. And remember they have given year 2021-22 for production of MK1A, so 2015 to 2022 i.e. 7 years for integrating AESA, EWS, Re-fuel probe, weight reduction and some small stuff. While the jet will remain exactly the same.

    MK2 will take at least 4 years before going for full production, so the 'best' timeline for MK2 will be 2027-28. Though I don't mind as far as they are running the HAL production line with MK1A, hence IAF must increase order of MK1A to 83+60(indigenous Engine & AESA) = 123 total.

    I am not pessimistic, I am just trying to be realistic.

     
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  9. Adioz

    Adioz शक्तिः दुर्दम्येच्छाशक्त्याः आगच्छति Senior Member

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    Instead of harping on about the Chinese threat, it would do us some good if we try to understand what we did wrong, and why we reached this juncture. We lack the capability to make advanced weapons because we failed to invest in domestic technology and products and instead favoured imports.

    Think about this: The Chinese are trying to create a military that can take on the US military. Everyone, including the Chinese know that the USA has vastly superior technology than China. So what approach did the Chinese adopt to close that capability gap?
    If the Chinese were to follow your advice, they would still be importing weapons from Russia.

    Instead, the Chinese chose to make their own weapons, even if they were inferior copies of foreign products. The Chinese invested heavily in indigenous technology with an eye on the future. They did not sweat the fact that their adversary was better equipped today. This enabled them to make their own 5th gen fighters today, much earlier than us.

    Now you want India to dump indigenous products and go shopping abroad just like we have been doing since before independence? Just because our adversary has one superior weapon? It might heal the symptom for the time being, but it will never cure the disease.

    I hope you are aware that the Chinese are well on their way to creating a knowledge based economy that will rival that of USA. Let us assume that we follow your advise today. 50 years in the future, when the Chinese are inducting 6th generation fighters, and we are stuck with 5th generation imported fighters, will you again say that we need to immediately import Russian or American 6th gen fighters or we will lose to China? Understand that this is exactly what will happen if we do not invest in Tejas and AMCA now.
     
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  10. Advaidhya Tiwari

    Advaidhya Tiwari Senior Member Senior Member

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    That is your misunderstanding. There were 53 demands for Mk1A which was released in public. In addition, there will be some other secretive demands too. The problem with Tejas was that till 2014, very little work was done due to UPA sabotaging the project. Hence, even items like FBW, weapons suite, EW etc were not yet developed. These things take time. Also, MK1 will get full FOC thi year and 2 more years for MK1A does not appear unreasonable. SO, if MK1A is complete by 2020 and production begins in 2021, that is goal reached.

    HAL is not slow but UPA was sabotaging. Without UPA causing problems, it is moving fast now and the same pace can be expected for Mk1A.
     
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  11. Advaidhya Tiwari

    Advaidhya Tiwari Senior Member Senior Member

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    Show me one country which has 5.5 or 6th generation plane? USA has not even completed F35 development and it is said to be complete only by 2020. And here you are, speaking of 5.5, 6th generation. No one can answer to your fantasies.

    China has 5th generation plane in IOC format, not fully operational. India is lagging behind by about 8 years and that will be caught up. By 2030, India will have 4th and 5th generation planes with itself. AMCA has completed preliminary design and is in prototyping stage. That will also be complete soon. Things like AESA< high end avionics etc are already being developed in parallel for Tejas Mk2 and AMCA. Overall, things are moving fast.
     
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  12. kamaal

    kamaal Regular Member

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    Could you plz share source the first bold part to prove your claim ?

    MK1 was supposed to get FOC in 2015 then 2016 then again in 2017 and now in 2018, lets see what happens. Though I think they'll get FOC by Jan-Feb 2019, at max.

    I blame the whole system for delay in LCA UPA alone couldn't do the damage. Yes, they didn't help LCA in any sense, its a reality now. But HAL/ADA/IAF should be blamed equally for the plight of LCA project.
     
  13. Advaidhya Tiwari

    Advaidhya Tiwari Senior Member Senior Member

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    https://www.news18.com/news/india/l...parameters-delays-hurting-iaf-cag-988827.html

    No, it was never 20016-17 as developing 53 (and some more secret items) take time.

    HAL, ADA, IAF are all part of govt or under govt and can't be independent. GTRE chief tried to resist and he was arrested on trumped up charges and shifted out of GTRE. UPA did it intentionally and there is no 2nd thoughts
     
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  14. kamaal

    kamaal Regular Member

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    What 53 ?? At least mention "53 improvements" so that I could understand.

    Here is my source : It says December 2012 :cool3:
    https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...rational-before-2013/articleshow/10237574.cms
     
  15. Prashant12

    Prashant12 Senior Member Senior Member

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    Tejas ready for auto low-speed recovery trials


    Bengaluru: The next key task for India’s Light Combat Aircraft Tejas is to undertake auto low-speed recovery (ALSR) flights. This is part of the last leg of activities towards the Final Operational Clearance (FOC), likely to be accorded to the programme, this December.

    ALSR is a state-of-the-art-feature that guarantees complete carefree manoeuvring of the aircraft. In a conventional dogfight situation, the fighter jets need to perform extreme manoeuvres. To enable the pilot to concentrate on his combat task, the Tejas fly-by-wire system automatically limits the aircraft parameters to ensure no departure from controlled flight and also ensures that none of the structural limits of the aircraft are exceeded.

    Unlike in a conventional fighter aircraft (MiG 21, MiG 27 or Jaguar), where the pilot has to continuously monitor all the parameters while doing combat, Tejas with this feature becomes completely carefree.

    Engineers and designers from Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA), Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) and the test crew from National Flight Test Centre are all geared up for this impending test.

    The Initial Operational Clearance (IOC) version of the Tejas (16 fighters) already automatically limits many of the aircraft parameters. The only parameter not being limited automatically is low speed which the pilot needs to monitor in flight. But for the FOC versions, even the speed limiting is made automatic, making the aircraft carefree.

    NATION
    AFS Sulur offers Flying Daggers envious environment to operate Tejas

    In this mode, the flight control system (FCS) continuously monitors the pilot's manoeuvres and once it detects that the current manoeuvre if continued for some more seconds could lead to a low-speed departure, it gives a warning to the pilot to take corrective action.

    However, in case the pilot ignores this warning the auto-low speed recover function takes over control of the aircraft and recovers it to a safe condition in the shortest possible time.

    The Tejas MK-I is capable of pulling up to a maximum of 8 G at 24 degrees Angle of Attack (AoA). Photo: Praveen Sundaram.
    Professors and students from IIT Bombay assisted the ADA team to optimise the auto recovery procedures. The advantage of this feature is that it allows the pilot to fly at the limits of the aircraft capabilities by toggling on the low-speed warning during combat. However, it weaves around a safety net, if the pilot makes any error of judgement.

    If pilots get disoriented

    Another related feature in the FOC version of the control laws which is also being tested simultaneously is the Disorientation Recovery Function (DRF).

    Pilots may get disoriented at times while flying into clouds or while flying over the sea. In such situations, a switch (panic button) is provided in the cockpit.

    If pressed by the pilot, the FCS takes over the controls and recovers the aircraft to level flight optimally (with minimum loss of speed or altitude). Here again IIT Bombay is said to have done some cutting edge work in creating the optimal algorithms. Thus while the auto low speed recovery mode cuts in automatically, the DRF mode is engaged by the pilot when he needs it.

    NATION
    Propelled by young blood, HTT-40 spins & recovers at first attempt
    The trials for ALSR and disorientation recovery will be done in various air-defence and ground attack configurations.

    As reported by Onmanorama earlier, Tejas had made its first ever air-to-air wet contact with an Indian Air Force (IAF) tanker over Gwalior in September this year.

    A Tejas variant (LSP-8) made the wet contact with an IAF IL-78 tanker for the planned air-to-air refuelling. About 1,900 kg of fuel was transferred during the in-flight refuelling process at an altitude of 20,000 feet.

    The scientists now say that during the subsequent air-to-air refuelling trials, up to 2,700 kg of fuel was transferred with the maximum fuel carrying load of Tejas being 4,000 kg.

    “Air-to-air refuelling is one of the most difficult exercises for a pilot and is a high-gain piloting task. The FCS came out with flying colours during this tight tracking task and remarkably the pilot could achieve contact with the refuelling drogue in the first attempt. The skills of Tejas were also tested during Gagan Shakti (military exercise) and it changed the way IAF perceives the programme,” an official said.

    The Tejas MK-I is capable of pulling up to a maximum of 8 G at 24 degrees Angle of Attack (AoA). The control laws (CLAW) are the defining factors that will help pilots manoeuvre safely during these situations.

    Weapon trials on

    Currently the Tejas team is embarking on final FOC weapon trials at Jaisalmer. Tejas has performed very creditably in the Flying Daggers Squadron during their weapon trials.

    The accuracies of the weapon drops have been very good. While the air-to-ground bombs for FOC have been already deployed successfully, there is a need to have a statistical measure of the accuracy of each weapon, which is called as the Circular Error of Probability (CEP).

    With the CEP, the Flying Daggers can then plan the number of aircraft and their configurations to ensure success in destroying an enemy asset. During the ongoing weapons trials at Jaisalmer, hundreds of bombs of different types are being dropped from Tejas to establish the CEPs.

    With the FOC now at a striking distance, the Tejas programme has been surely heading with a clear flightpath in sight. The software fine-tunings will continue even as the FOC fighters start rolling out from HAL hangars. These fighters will be fitted with the fuel probe, GSh-24 gun and a SDR (software-defined radio) among others as mandated by the IAF.


    https://english.manoramaonline.com/...jas-ready-auto-low-speed-recovery-trials.html
     
  16. Advaidhya Tiwari

    Advaidhya Tiwari Senior Member Senior Member

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    HAL ramps up Tejas production

    Bengaluru: The activities at LCA Tejas Division of Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) have reached a fever pitch. The engineers, designers and the shop floor crew are committed to beat the March, 2019, deadline and deliver the remaining five Tejas fighters to the Indian Air Force (IAF).

    The IAF pilots from Flying Daggers are warming up to ferry out a new fighter from Tejas production line to AFS Sulur, the home of No 45 Squadron, Flying Daggers.

    The squadron will get one more flying machine in two weeks after the Test Pilots complete the mandatory Customer Acceptance Flight (CAF).

    The fighters from SP-12 to SP-16, the remaining from the Initial Operational Clearance (IOC) block are all on the final equipping phase. While SP-12, SP-14 and SP-16 are with the LCA Tejas Division, SP-13 and SP-15 are with the second production line at the Aircraft Division.

    This is the first time ever that the Tejas production line at HAL is witnessing so much of activities. There is a renewed energy seen all over and better synergy between all the stakeholders.

    The recent review of the project by Dr Ajay Kumar, Secretary (Defence Production), is said to have given clarity to all stakeholders to overcome the bottlenecks and to find a way forward for stepped-up Tejas production. His interactions and assurances seem to have boosted the morale of team HAL.

    “The production rate of IOC fighters has been really ramped up at the LCA Tejas Division. Starting from one aircraft in 2015-16, it has been gradually increased to two and five aircraft in the next two production years. During 2018-19 fiscal, we are confident of delivering eight aircraft. We had our share of issues in the past and all that is now sorted out,” said an official.

    The SP-12 fighter is ready to undergo a full performance EGR (engine ground run) signalling that it will be ready to kiss the skies for the first time in a week.

    HAL officials say that SP-13 and SP-15 will be ready for maiden flights in December. The Aircraft Division will hand over these two fighters to the Tejas Division after conducting the HSTT (high-speed taxi trials).

    What clicked for LCA Division

    After having taken the hit from all corners for poor delivery of Tejas, HAL handpicked some of the best brains and made them part of programme at the LCA Division. Huge strides have been made now on improving the supply chain management and most importantly the follow-up mechanisms.

    The man who heads the LCA Division P G Yogindra, an Executive Director, is said to have a played stellar role at the Hawk assembly lines, ensuring deliveries ahead of the schedule. His expertise in supply chain management is coming handy for the Tejas project now.

    The review mechanism, delegation of responsibilities, increased interaction with vendors and fast-tracking of part supplies have propelled the Tejas production plans.

    As a result, the assembly cycle time and waiting period for parts have been reduced – an accusation often HAL faced in the past. “We have made all efforts to ramp up the production in phases. Now, we are able to source items in advance. The front fuselage structure of Tejas now takes 53 days to be completed and this used to take four to five months in the past. Various teams have sat down and brain-stormed and we have found many answers,” said an official.

    HAL is awaiting a major milestone when L&T Aerospace delivers the wings of Tejas. This it says will be a major step in Make in India and its partnership with a private industry. The last fighter in the IOC series SP-16 will be the first to be integrated with the wings from L&T.

    FOC fighters join the party

    The team at LCA Tejas Division is excited as they have begun the preparations for producing the Final Operational Clearance (FOC) variants of Tejas. While the FOC announcement is expected next month, the division has already begun advanced stages of production of 10 sets of detail parts.

    The assembly of two sets of air fame have already started for SP-21 and SP-22. The parts for SP-23 and SP-24 will be up by the first week of December.

    The provisional DAL (Drawing Applicability List) for FOC fighters were released in October, 2017, and the amended one in August, 2018. DAL is the standard of preparation for production that forms the basis for the final product to be delivered to the customer.

    “Structural assembly of major modules such as front fuselage, (FF), centre fuselage (CF) and rear fuselage (RF) of SP-21 onwards are already under progress, in the structural assembly hanger of LCA Tejas Division. Incidentally, the floor assembly of SP-21 FF Stage-1 has been provisionally cleared by qualifying authorities which is a significant milestone towards our FOC missions,” added the official.

    HAL says that the first FOC fighter (SP-21) will fly out by October, 2019. It is hopeful of creating a new benchmark by delivering 16 aircraft during 2019-20 fiscal.

    As reported by Onmanorama earlier, IAF and HAL seem to have ironed out their differences over Tejas trainers.

    It is expected that the DAL or the build-standard of eight trainers in the FOC version will be now be ready by February, 2019, and the first plane will be likely available to IAF by September, 2021.

    The 1,000-plus workforce of LCA Tejas Division probably is aware that the future of HAL is currently hinged on to their performances. A plane not wanted by many till recently has suddenly become the hope for a company, its user and the nation.

    The upgraded versions of Tejas set to fly out in the future will be a testimony to the belief that making is better than buying.

    (The writer is an independent aerospace, defence journalist, who blogs at Tarmak007 and tweets @writetake.)
     
  17. WolfPack86

    WolfPack86 Senior Member Senior Member

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    I wish Indian air force orders 200 MK 1 a Tejas fighter jet.
     
  18. WolfPack86

    WolfPack86 Senior Member Senior Member

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    #Tejas fighters from SP-12 to SP-16 from IOC block are all on the final equipping phase. While SP-12, SP-14 (in pic) and SP-16 are with the LCA Tejas Division, SP-13 and SP-15 are with the 2nd production line at the Aircraft Division.
     
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  19. kamaal

    kamaal Regular Member

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    There is no requirement for such numbers, also by the time we'll produce 83rd MK1A MK2 will be ready for production, if everything goes as planned. But I think they should go for 83+40=123 MK1A. 83 is not large number to support pvt industry.

    If MK1A is a good platform and satisfies IAF's ASQR then I think 123 is the right number.
     
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  20. ABHINANDAN

    ABHINANDAN Regular Member

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    Dear All,
    Beginner's question for this thread
    what is difference between IOC certified variant to FOC certified variant ?
    sorry, if this was explained elsewhere.
     

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