India loses on Sri Lankan battleground

Discussion in 'Subcontinent & Central Asia' started by HeinzGud, Apr 10, 2016.

  1. garg_bharat

    garg_bharat Senior Member Senior Member

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    @J20!, I have not seen any American action so far to blockade Chinese trade, in SCS or anywhere else.

    USA is only saying freedom of navigation, which is as important for Chinese trade, as it is for trade of other countries.

    USA is not even China's enemy; as your fellow Chinese commentators have repeated said on this very forum.

    So when you talk about US bases in the same vein as Chinese controlled overseas ports, it cannot be due to USA.

    See I do not know what is the purpose. A Chinese ship or sub can very well refuel at Colombo. It does not need Hambantota. There is no great advantage Hambantota offers that Colombo does not. Except, just one, that Hambantota is isolated and can be controlled by Chinese Navy without any SL oversight.

    The same is with Gwadar which has no economic importance.

    Chinese trade cannot traverse the mighty Himalaya and land at Gwadar. A better route is through Russia. In reality Gwadar will never flourish as a civilian port.
     
  2. J20!

    J20! Senior Member Senior Member

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    Vietnam has sunk a number of Chinese fishing vessels as well. Such things happen when maritime features are DISPUTED.

    Oil exploration in waters claimed by both Vietnam AND China. As far as I know, India does not lay claim to Hambantota. Or do you? Maybe you're claiming Gwadar and ports in Myanmar too?

    [​IMG]

    http://www.economist.com/news/inter...mainly-about-trade-not-aggression-new-masters

    http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4640513,00.html

    Chinese companies run ports even on the continental USA, Mexico, Israel, Greece, numerous ports in Africa and others. If you didn't know, China is the no. 1 trading nation, and Chinese shipping companies are some of the biggest in the world.

    I don't where where that particular article is found in international law, but feel free to do as you please.

    What you don't seem to comprehend is that India isn't the principal power in the Indian Ocean at all. The US Navy is. China doesn't have bases in the IOR, the US does.
     
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  3. garg_bharat

    garg_bharat Senior Member Senior Member

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    The Chinese are opening hundreds of years of history and claiming anything and everything.

    India can also claim a lot of land with this kind of logic; but of course such logic is not sustainable.

    We have no interest in claiming Hambantota or Gwadar. Our only interest is to keep both US and China away in making bases close to us.
     
  4. J20!

    J20! Senior Member Senior Member

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    "USA is only saying freedom of navigation" for its military vessels within China's EEZ and usually only a few miles from Chinese naval bases on the mainland. there has never been a documented case of China impeding comercial shipping in the SCS or elsewhere.

    And as I've mentioned before (unlike the US media covering the SCS) most of the trade going through the SCS is CHINESE TRADE. Ships heading to, or coming from CHINESE ports and cities.

    Every case where the US has complained of its "freedom of navigation rights" where cases of Chinese vessels and aircraft impeding US Navy surveilance vessels and flights on surveilance missions in China's EEZ, miles away from the Chinese mainland.

    USNS impeccable incident
    The EP3E Hainan Incident
    The US Navy P8 Incident

    All of them where surveilance missions in China's EEZ. These surveilance flights and sail-by's occur on a daily bases, with hundreds recorded ever year.

    The only countrys to impede freedom of navigation for commercial shipping have been the US itself and its allies Israel and Saudi Arabia.

    -It mined the Nicaraguan Ports in a case that went to the international court of justice.
    -The US and Saudi-Arabia blocked an Iranian cargo ship carrying humanitarian aid for beseiged Yemeni's.
    -It boarded a Chinese comercial vessel on Charges of transporting materiel to Iran - charges proved false when the ship was searched when forced to dock in Saudi Arabia.
    - And BTW, the US "reserves the right" to carry out any such operations whenever and wherever it sees fit, so your assuarances about them not doing the same to Chinese shipping in a war-time scenario ring hollow.

    The PLAN submarine in question DID dock in Colombo Port, so I don't understand your assumptions about Hambantota?

    What are you basing your conclusions on? Has development of Gwadar on this scale ever been attempted before? BTW, China already has a pipeline going through Myanmar which tranports oil and gas from the Bay of Bengal straight to China.

    Considering that China, through various financial institutions has already commited billions to the Pakistani economic corridor project, I dont understand how such a venture is "impossible". Ask the contractors building the roads and pipelines if its "impossible".I guess we'll have to wait and see.
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2016
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  5. J20!

    J20! Senior Member Senior Member

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    The US already has a military base close to India, China does not.

    I believe there needs to be a clear explanation regarding the difirence between a US-Style Naval base and a port run by a foreign company. Because as I said before, Chinese companies do run comercial ports in the US itself.

    I dont see Obama throwing fits about "Chinese Bases" on the US mainland.
     
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  6. sgarg

    sgarg Senior Member Senior Member

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    J20!, you misconstrued my comment about Hambantota. I meant that Hambantota port is not needed as Colombo already is a transhipment hub.

    Gwadar port has been in existence for many years. How much cargo is loaded/unloaded at Gwadar?

    How much captive market is there close to Gwadar - either in terms of producing entities or consuming entities?

    Your logic about viability is wrong as both Hambantota and Gwadar are losing money, still China is pumping more money into them.

    If you want to develop tourism around Hambantota, you would concentrate on airport, not the port.

    Myanmar ports are more suited for China for oil and gas pipelines due to geography and proximity to consuming centers in China.

    The sum total is that Gwadar port is unsuitable for commercial activity. What China intends to do with it? Its only utility is as a military outpost close to American base of Diego Garcia.

    Hambantota will not develop as Colombo is already there very close, and Hambantota does not offer any particular advantage over Colombo.
     
  7. HariPrasad-1

    HariPrasad-1 Senior Member Senior Member

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    Ihave not read any news of vietnah sinking chinese ship. We are exploring the oil in exclusive vietnam economic zone and still it pains you. You have bullied all your small neighbors and you have made Tibet a slave country. You have build dam on Brahmputra in our land. Wait for few years. we will kick you so hard on your dirty @$$ that you will take years to recover. We have a strong government in place. We have started building infrastructure aggressively. We have started all preparations to give you a befitting reply thousand time stronger than we did in nathula. Withing next three years, we will have all goods to teach an unforgettable lesson to you. Believe me that will remind you the rape of Nanking.
    You can find only selective links so not your fault.

    Here the question is not whether we are principle power or not. The question is who owns this Indian ocean is. And of course it is us.
     
  8. J20!

    J20! Senior Member Senior Member

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    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-32400091

    Hambantota is a single port on a planned route that includes many more ports along the Maritime Silk Road. Some of the ports envisioned are in India itself, which would be quite the contradiction if the whole point of the multi-billion $ initiative was to "surround india".

    Sri-Lanka's goal is to become a hub for trans-Indian Ocean trade. How could it possible enter into such a venture with a single port. Even if it could, the port in Colombo is no-where near large enough to handle the volume of shipping traffic that passes through the Indian Ocean.

    But I'll humor you. How exactly would the port in Hambantota help in containing India? Assuming that the Sri-Lankan government would agree to host a "PLAN base" (which it wouldn't)...
     
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  9. J20!

    J20! Senior Member Senior Member

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    Debating you isn't even a debate. Its facts vs fantasy. No links, no facts, and a slim hold on reality.

    I'll take your word for it Mr."Rape of Nanking"
     
  10. HeinzGud

    HeinzGud Senior Member Senior Member

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    Sinhalese regret that such a things happened. Sinhalese has learnt there lesson. But the issue is after all this Tamils has not learnt anything.
     
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  11. bose

    bose Senior Member Senior Member

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    I pray for peace for both Sinhalese & Tamils... Tamils are your brothers and culturally more close to you than me a Bengali... It the duty of the nation to a look after all...
     
  12. HeinzGud

    HeinzGud Senior Member Senior Member

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    Sri Lankan position on Kashmir is always sides with Indian position. Sri Lanka wants Kashmir to be part of India. Though the final decision should be rested upon it's citizens. But, having said that actions based on communal lines should not be tolerated by India.
     
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  13. HeinzGud

    HeinzGud Senior Member Senior Member

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    Sinhalese always consider Tamils to there bothers. But the issue is that Tamils don't consider Sinhalese as their equals.
     
  14. bose

    bose Senior Member Senior Member

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    We Indians do not want people to be killed in Kashmir ... The problem stated because of this communal division of people...
     
  15. HeinzGud

    HeinzGud Senior Member Senior Member

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    Yeah, I understand. You can't reason with Muslims.
     
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  16. bose

    bose Senior Member Senior Member

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    I do not believe that ... Tamil are also humans ... In a family elder or bigger brother have to go extra yard ... It happened in my family too...
     
  17. HeinzGud

    HeinzGud Senior Member Senior Member

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    No, there was no need. In fact there are still many millions of people of India who die of hunger, India should give humanitarian aid to citizen of it's own rather than forcing it on the people of some other country. What was the point of spending millions of rupees just to drop some food parcels over Jaffna. Did India believe that Sri Lankan Tamils are more important than their own citizens?

    Why Should Sri Lankan president accept India aid? Sri Lanka wasn't at a dire need for humanitarian aid.

    Jaffna was never lost by the SLA after 1996. And how can you say Jaffna was not under absolute control of SL? What are you denominators.

    That was the tragedy. Sri Lanka should never have signed that accord.

    There are domestic documents that have investigated about the conduct of the army during the Eelam war 4. They have not come across any genocide evidence.

    SLA soldiers has being caught violating human rights. They have been duly punished for their behavior.

    Why do anyone need international investigators, when LTTE sympathies TNA is in power in Northern province. You suggest they can do such a little thing? Whole world is watching over Sri Lanka now. I don't think TNA would face any objection from Sri Lankan authorities if they wanted to do it.

    You cannot stop any sub from entering IOR. But you can stalk them and chase them away from IOR. Both Russia and US has mastered that tactic during the cold war. Are you suggesting that Indian Navy don't have the skills to accomplish that task?
     
  18. HeinzGud

    HeinzGud Senior Member Senior Member

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    In fact Sinhalese are the minority among the majority Tamil population in Sri Lanka and India. Therefore Tamils has the opportunity to go the extra yard.
     
  19. HeinzGud

    HeinzGud Senior Member Senior Member

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    Hambantota is not designed for Container traffic. Colombo port is enough for that. Hambantota port is built to serve the shipping going along the East-West shipping lane and future industrial zone to be built around H'tota.
     
  20. HeinzGud

    HeinzGud Senior Member Senior Member

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    Plus there is a US listing station located in Sri Lanka close to Tamilnadu.
     
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