FUTURE STRIKE: India's hypersonic vehicle (HSTDV) ready for ground tests

[Twinblade]

but you will agree that its not one time project. it will take atleast a decade from now to complete it and induct it. moreover its a weapon delivery system which reusable at the same time.
so at most a dozen of it will be made and delivered to sfc and the constant research in it is expected so that technology matures and better platforms are given out to force because china wont be sitting idle in the meantime.
having a hypersonic wind tunnel like CIAM of russia is a long term investment.

Things move at their own pace, like every organisation, most of the defence labs vie for budget and not every lab gets the budget they want. What would you rather prefer, Brahmos-2 in product testing phase by 2016 (hypothetical) and international partnerships of civilian organisations with ISRO on scramjet or a national scramjet lab by 2016 followed by years of datbase building and both DRDO and ISRO products in testing by 2025 ? Prioritisation of budget and pragmatism is call for the day and not and Indian version of Juche' in science and technology.

 

[Twinblade]

Where are cryogenic engines tested?? Speeds are usually 4.4 km/sec

4.4 x3600=15,840 km/hr

mach=1195/hr

15,840/1195=13.255 MACH or greater.

Cryogenic engines do not have issues with supersonic airflows in the intakes. One of the biggest challenge in scramjet engines is sustainable combustion, and a badly designed inlet can make combustion beyond a few seconds impossible to achieve.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

I thing you maybe too focused on a phase India may have passed long ago? the real issue with scramjets in being able to manuver and control the extreme speeds and finding materials which can bear the high temperatures. If HSDTV is ready for ground tests the wind tunnel is a non issue.

 

[Twinblade]

I thing you maybe too focused on a phase India may have passed long ago? the real issue with scramjets in being able to manuver and control the extreme speeds and finding materials which can bear the high temperatures. If HSDTV is ready for ground tests the wind tunnel is a non issue.

Isro's scramjet was able achieve the stable conditions for scramjet igntion for 7 seconds. This is just a baby step in terms of sustained hypersonic flight. For a longer flight, the vehicle may accelerate to a velocity where airflow is uncontrollable or too unpredictable, so I wouldn't say that the phase passed long ago

 

[Falcon]

sad to see even after so much of things coming up and dozens of laboratories and test centers lined up in this country, wind tunnel test for these high value vehicles are done is russia.

just think, this thing is first dismantled and packed- weeks of work.
then transported to russia-week or so
opened up and joined again- weeks.
testing in wind tunnel and data collection-weeks if not months.
again dismantling and packing-weeks
transporting to India-week or so
again opening and assembling- weeks.

then comes the intermediate step- system changes and applying the changes thus finalized after data analysis.

in the above layman analysis. we can see that crucial prototype testing takes months in total of unnecessary assembly and dismantling, transportation. and after making due changes one need to repeat the above procedure to validate the changes means again a new russia trip.

this trip also include charges for sending and protecting model and that of scientists.

who the hell is not sending proposal to make a wind tunnel. im sure my university VC or prof from IIt can design it.

Check this link bro. You might feel better.....

http://www.icast.org.in/Resources/Dwttfi2.pdf

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Isro's scramjet was able achieve the stable conditions for scramjet igntion for 7 seconds. This is just a baby step in terms of sustained hypersonic flight. For a longer flight, the vehicle may accelerate to a velocity where airflow is uncontrollable or too unpredictable, so I wouldn't say that the phase passed long ago

how did they go from 7 seconds to ground tests ?? Scramjet has already been tested successfully even if for 7 seconds.

http://www.thehindu.com/sci-tech/article145746.ece

ISRO conducts flight testing of advanced sounding rocket

 

[LETHALFORCE]

but you will agree that its not one time project. it will take atleast a decade from now to complete it and induct it. moreover its a weapon delivery system which reusable at the same time.
so at most a dozen of it will be made and delivered to sfc and the constant research in it is expected so that technology matures and better platforms are given out to force because china wont be sitting idle in the meantime.
having a hypersonic wind tunnel like CIAM of russia is a long term investment.

This project has probably been worked on for close to a decade(or more) already??

 

[Twinblade]

how did they go from 7 seconds to ground tests ??

Different organisations ( ISRO and DRDL). ISRO project took off 2 years back, DRDL project has yet to take the air. They will remain separate despite similarity of objectives, like civilian space program and military missile tech.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

The ATV test for scramjet weighed 3 tons to achieve the speed it did I would say it was a success.

 

[sayareakd]

Check this link bro. You might feel better.....

http://www.icast.org.in/Resources/Dwttfi2.pdf

thanks, great info and pics, but cell phone number should have been avoided.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Different organisations ( ISRO and DRDL). ISRO project took off 2 years back, DRDL project has yet to take the air. They will remain separate despite similarity of objectives, like civilian space program and military missile tech.

why would a strategic project like this be tied down by bureacracy???

 

[trackwhack]

The purpose & objectives of both vehicles are very different. The hurdles to overcome may be similar. The Hypersonic vehicle will be completely within atmosphere during its entire flight course reaching a max altitude of 40-45 km. It is meant to deliver a warhead. The heat shield materials will be different. The Space vehicle collects oxygen from the atmosphere during the first stage of launch, effectively increasing the overall payload as it would not need to carry an oxidizer like a conventional rocket does. The space vehicle has to store the oxygen, the weapons system only has to use the oxygen from the atmosphere. Very different implementations though overlapping principles exist. Hence they need to be separate programs.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

The purpose & objectives of both vehicles are very different. The hurdles to overcome may be similar. The Hypersonic vehicle will be completely within atmosphere during its entire flight course reaching a max altitude of 40-45 km. It is meant to deliver a warhead. The heat shield materials will be different. The Space vehicle collects oxygen from the atmosphere during the first stage of launch, effectively increasing the overall payload as it would not need to carry an oxidizer like a conventional rocket does. The space vehicle has to store the oxygen, the weapons system only has to use the oxygen from the atmosphere. Very different implementations though overlapping principles exist. Hence they need to be separate programs.

The technology is the important part, applications will be the different project. The technology has been tested successfully(7 seconds). In the future other applications could possibly be a scramjet UAV similar to Harpy?? This would seem more practical where a pilot would not have to bear high G's to manuever a vehicle?

 

[Twinblade]

why would a strategic project like this be tied down by bureacracy???

Its not bureaucracy but drawing a line. If we need international cooperation on civilian projects, there has to be a clear boundary between civilian and defence projects. Like our civilian nuclear reactors can receive fuel from NSG members but the facilities churning out nukes and submarine nuclear reactors won't. Same is deal with several dual use technologies in aero space. If ISRO and DRDO projects have an active collaboration, the international cooperation to ISRO will dry out.

The ATV test for scramjet weighed 3 tons to achieve the speed it did I would say it was a success.

Yes it was a success and a good starting step, but that is what it is.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Yes it was a success and a good starting step, but that is what it is.

Remember this is a new technology in the world even USA's first ground test was a failure

Hypersonic X-51A Scramjet Failure Perplexes Air Force | Scramjets & Hypersonic Flight | Military Space | Space.com

The space application has a lot of potential to deliver payloads cheaper. India is more focused I think on the space application while USA on the military application?? But with the space application military application will go hand in hand.

 

[Apollyon]

Re: FUTURE STRIKE: India's hypersonic vehicle (HSTDV) ready for ground

Isro's scramjet was able achieve the stable conditions for scramjet igntion for 7 seconds. This is just a baby step in terms of sustained hypersonic flight. For a longer flight, the vehicle may accelerate to a velocity where airflow is uncontrollable or too unpredictable, so I wouldn't say that the phase passed long ago

at what Mach Speed ?

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IISc wind tunnel tests hypersonic vehicles

A senior DRDO official told TOI the HSTDV has achieved the 6.5 Mach (a measure of speed). It, he said, would give India a lead in hypersonic vehicle design, scramjet, material technology and how to manage the environment peculiar to hypersonic flying engines.

So has DRDO tested HSTDV or just DDM

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Re: FUTURE STRIKE: India's hypersonic vehicle (HSTDV) ready for ground

This might have been a missile test? Brahmos 2?

 

[Khagesh]

Hope this happens soon. They have made us wait too long already.