Future Infantry Combat Vehicle (FICV)

[Armand2REP]

DPSUs are our safety net... Scope for Private players will increase definitely, based on their performance from now on. Private players are already involved for manufacturing sub-components , just not as Primary integrators.
But DPSUs are here to stay....

DPSUs are screw driver work, doling out sub assemblies to private players is screw driver work, off sets are screw driver work. The only way to make truly indigenous products is to fund the private sector to DESIGN them.

 

[ezsasa]

DPSUs are screw driver work, doling out sub assemblies to private players is screw driver work, off sets are screw driver work. The only way to make truly indigenous products is to fund the private sector to DESIGN them.

All in good time..... For now it is what it is........

 

[G10]

Actually it should have been reverse as in case of ATAGS. DPSU’s should design and screwdriver job should be outsourced to private players and build upon it. In USA proof of concept is outsourced to universities. Actual product development Is done by private companies. All this is managed by govt agencies.

 

[Armand2REP]

Actually it should have been reverse as in case of ATAGS. DPSU’s should design and screwdriver job should be outsourced to private players and build upon it. In USA proof of concept is outsourced to universities. Actual product development Is done by private companies. All this is managed by govt agencies.

Actually the US has government funded laboratories that develop key technologies, then they spend government money for private companies to design and build prototypes. The winner gets a firm order. India needs to give private firms access to government technology to build prototypes and the government needs to fund the design and building of those prototypes by private firms. The final and most important aspect is giving them firm orders big enough to make it worth their while.

 

[ezsasa]

Actually the US has government funded laboratories that develop key technologies, then they spend government money for private companies to design and build prototypes. The winner gets a firm order. India needs to give private firms access to government technology to build prototypes and the government needs to fund the design and building of those prototypes by private firms. The final and most important aspect is giving them firm orders big enough to make it worth their while.

is it the case that you are assuming Private players do not take up major projects in india?

 

[Armand2REP]

is it the case that you are assuming Private players do not take up major projects in india?

I am assuming the government does not fund the design and building of prototypes by private firms in India, such as moving to Make II and skipping a funded prototype competition for FICV.

 

[ezsasa]

I am assuming the government does not fund the design and building of prototypes by private firms in India, such as moving to Make II and skipping a funded prototype competition for FICV.

1) Tata SED, L&T & Godrej created many of the complex engineering + Digital + Electronics systems for all the forces. Now few more pvt companies like Alpha, VEM , TONBO are doing a good job.
2) There is a distinct difference between DPSUs formed Pre and Post 1947. BEML, BDL , BHEL etc work like a private companies. work culture is not different from private institutions. These companies have created some excellent products over the years.
3) majority of the complaints we hear are about OFB, because they control majority of the chunk of equipment for IA. OFB was formed Pre-independence.

you also have to take into consideration that major roadblocks have been cleared only 2017 as per DIPP 2016..

Five more years and budget constraints will be re-solved.. Infact pipeline for next five years is more or less set for all forces including strategic command.

 

[Suryavanshi]

1) Tata SED, L&T & Godrej created many of the complex engineering + Digital + Electronics systems for all the forces. Now few more pvt companies like Alpha, VEM , TONBO are doing a good job.
2) There is a distinct difference between DPSUs formed Pre and Post 1947. BEML, BDL , BHEL etc work like a private companies. work culture is not different from private institutions. These companies have created some excellent products over the years.
3) majority of the complaints we hear are about OFB, because they control majority of the chunk of equipment for IA. OFB was formed Pre-independence.

you also have to take into consideration that major roadblocks have been cleared only 2017 as per DIPP 2016..

Five more years and budget constraints will be re-solved.. Infact pipeline for next five years is more or less set for all forces including strategic command.

What do u think are the main reasons why OFB Underperforms.
I mean on one side there is Institution like ISRO and then we have OFB

 

[ezsasa]

What do u think are the main reasons why OFB Underperforms.
I mean on one side there is Institution like ISRO and then we have OFB

***************Unions************** whose charters were created before independence...

 

[Armand2REP]

1) Tata SED, L&T & Godrej created many of the complex engineering + Digital + Electronics systems for all the forces. Now few more pvt companies like Alpha, VEM , TONBO are doing a good job.
2) There is a distinct difference between DPSUs formed Pre and Post 1947. BEML, BDL , BHEL etc work like a private companies. work culture is not different from private institutions. These companies have created some excellent products over the years.
3) majority of the complaints we hear are about OFB, because they control majority of the chunk of equipment for IA. OFB was formed Pre-independence.

you also have to take into consideration that major roadblocks have been cleared only 2017 as per DIPP 2016..

Five more years and budget constraints will be re-solved.. Infact pipeline for next five years is more or less set for all forces including strategic command.

Please list the successful products of these DSPUs procured in bulk for the Indian Armed Forces. The last time I looked the average Jawan was woefully under-equipped for the 21st century battlefield.

 

[ezsasa]

Please list the successful products of these DSPUs procured in the bulk for the Indian Armed Forces. The last time I looked the average Jawan was woefully under-equipped for the 21st century battlefield.

That's the thing, majority of Infantry related equipment comes from OFB. and OFB sucks....

 

[Armand2REP]

That's the thing, majority of Infantry related equipment comes from OFB. and OFB sucks....

OK, but I will ask again...

Please list the successful products of these DSPUs procured in bulk for the Indian Armed Forces.

 

[ezsasa]

OK, but I will ask again...

Please list the successful products of these DSPUs procured in bulk for the Indian Armed Forces.

http://www.bdl-india.in/?q=our-products
https://www.bemlindia.in/product_profile_beml.aspx
https://www.electronicsb2b.com/industry-buzz/bhel-expand-defence/

there many other DPSUs i will not be listing them, you can do your own research...

 

[Armand2REP]

http://www.bdl-india.in/?q=our-products
https://www.bemlindia.in/product_profile_beml.aspx
http://www.larsentoubro.com/heavy-engineering/products-services/defence-aerospace/

there many other DPSUs i will not be listing them, you can do your own research...

It looks foreign to me. What INDIAN products have they made IN BULK to the Indian Armed Forces?

 

[ezsasa]

It all looks foreign to me. What INDIAN products have they made IN BULK to the Indian Armed Forces?

Old ToT will continue... Just because Armand2REP wants to score an point in a argument on a defence fanboy website, reality does not change overnight... you are well aware of the product developments are ongoing.

what is the point you are trying to make?

i am not going to spoon feed you with information, you are welcome to do your own research...

 

[Armand2REP]

Old ToT will continue... Just because Armand2REP wants to score an point in a argument on a defence fanboy website, reality does not change overnight... you are well aware of the product developments are ongoing.

what is the point you are trying to make?

i am not going to spoon feed you with information, you are welcome to do your own research...

The point I am trying to make is DPSUs are useless and should be given over to the private sector. They can do it better, cheaper and faster because they are motivated by profit and are held accountable to its shareholders and the clients. DPSUs are accountable to no one.

 

[ezsasa]

The point I am trying to make is DPSUs are useless and should be given over to the private sector. They can do it better, cheaper and faster because they are motivated by profit and are held accountable to its shareholders and the government. DPSUs are accountable to no one.

BHEL, BDL and BEML are listed companies... profits and book order matter to them...

 

[Armand2REP]

BHEL, BDL and BEML are listed companies... profits and book order matter to them...

They are owned by GoI, they must be divested to be held accountable.

 

[ezsasa]

They are owned by GoI, they must be divested to be held accountable.

Nope not gonna happen.....
i seriously suggest you spend time studying their product portfolio(Not just the ones i mentioned above)...

 

[Armand2REP]

Nope not gonna happen.....
i seriously suggest you spend time studying their product portfolio(Not just the ones i mentioned above)...

Their product portfolio is a bunch of screw driver work of foreign products sent in knock down kits. The government must divest them and let them compete as private firms for design and building prototypes in defence competitions. Let the government run the labs, leave the private sector to design and build it. This will allow DRDO more leeway to focus on core competencies rather than wasting time reinventing the wheel.