AMCA - Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (HAL)

Assassin 2.0

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Russia how to build the aircraft when India has no experienced. If Russia capitulated to India the program would have been a mess with Indian demands, it would have turned into another LCA or Arjun fiasco with decades of delay and then Russia would be blamed as usual
Because we were supposed to buy more than 200 of those su-57 which would have costed india A BOMB. And india is not a technological dumb country. We wanted a jet which can live upto our needs for example AL-31FP underperformed in indian climatic conditions meanwhile it worked nicely in Russian climate. We wanted that jet with item - 30 engine Russia failed to stick with the time lines .
( even rafale is tuned for indian conditions.)
Russia eventually said that we could transfer TOT to india for 5 billion and said india wanted TOT for free after spending 300 million $ in which development of prototypes costed Russia 6 billion.

Their are only two answers to this first india founded out that Russia is not going to provide total TOT( even after payment) and Chinese will eventually get hands on these jets and secrets will be out.

Second issues can be fighter failed to match technology requirements.

If we can pay 1.2 billions for a tank T-90 to get it's tot then we could have also invested more if hypocrite Russia supported joint development.

India pays Russia $1.2 billion in technology transfer fees for T-90S tanks


And why india will not ask for test flight not to remind that request of test flight was created in after 2011 at that time SU-57 prototypes were flying.

Btw don't you know that Russia itself utilized India's modifications which we asked for development of su-30?
 

Assassin 2.0

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Thats not transfer fees..
India's buying 464 tanks for that amount too.
Nope.
NEW DELHI — India has awarded a $3.12 billion contract for local production of 464 T-90S main battle tanks after paying a technology transfer fee to Russia.

The contract was signed with little fanfare earlier this month. The deal stipulates that Russian original equipment manufacturer UralVagonZavod and arms export agency Rosoboronexport will be paid $1.2 billion for technology transfer, while India’s state-owned Ordnance Factory Board will be paid $1.92 billion for local production of 464 T-90S tanks, according to an Indian Ministry of Defence official.

Total contract worth 3.12 billion.

Vietnam paid $3.9 million for its T-90S tanks. India pays $6.7 million for the T-90S tanks because of the transfer fee.
 

Neptune

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Because we were supposed to buy more than 200 of those su-57 which would have costed india A BOMB. And india is not a technological dumb country. We wanted a jet which can live upto our needs for example AL-31FP underperformed in indian climatic conditions meanwhile it worked nicely in Russian climate. We wanted that jet with item - 30 engine Russia failed to stick with the time lines .
( even rafale is tuned for indian conditions.)


What Did France do to “tune” Rafale? Engines work more efficient in cooler conditions where air is dense. As for the “-30 engine” Russia is working on the engine without foreign help. It’s light years ahead of any other engine besides maybe the F-135. Look at the Kavari engine, India is getting a lot of assistance and the engine is probably obsolete and you bash Russia? Remind everyone how long it took India to built and induct the LCA and Arjun-this with half the parts in those things being foreign. You seem upset with Russian progress but fail or refuse to admit India cannot achieve the same success even with massive foreign assistance to build much less sophisticated equipment.





Russia eventually said that we could transfer TOT to india for 5 billion and said india wanted TOT for free after spending 300 million $ in which development of prototypes costed Russia 6 billion.

Their are only two answers to this first india founded out that Russia is not going to provide total TOT( even after payment) and Chinese will eventually get hands on these jets and secrets will be out.



In other words India wanted full TOT practically for free. Gee I wonder why Russia wasn’t interested. By the way TOT transfer would cost Russia a net loss, which I will explain shortly.



Second issues can be fighter failed to match technology requirements.




I remember an old interview in Russian with maybe Bogdan in which he said the aircraft exceeded expectations. So this can’t be it, I feel you are interjecting your own prejudices here.



If we can pay 1.2 billions for a tank T-90 to get it's tot then we could have also invested more if hypocrite Russia supported joint development.

India pays Russia $1.2 billion in technology transfer fees for T-90S tanks




Do you realize what TOT is? Apparently not, it would cost Russia money to transfer TOT so you think India would get it for free at the expense of Russia? You think Russia just hands over a hard drive or blueprints and be done with it? Wrong, it involves helping set up factories and production lines, giving machinery and training everyone from engineers to production workers. The transfer of TOT also means that the orders from the original manufacturer is zero or very little which means the original manufacturer will not let a foreign entity manufacturer it’s product for free.



And why india will not ask for test flight not to remind that request of test flight was created in after 2011 at that time SU-57 prototypes were flying.

Btw don't you know that Russia itself utilized India's modifications which we asked for development of su-30?


There is zero practical reasons as to why Russia would risk handing over the Pak-fa to India. There is no need, since India would get the same feedback from Bogdan as Russia would get. This type of backwards decisions is the same reasons why it takes India decades to develop simple aircraft even when when using foreign assistance and foreign engines, radars and weapons.



Lol this is new one. How many flight hours this bogdon has which Indians can't match.


It has little to do with flight hours but Bogdan probably has more then any Indian pilot anyways since he graduated in 1983 from Air Force academy. Name a single Indian pilot that flown 55 different types of aircraft...name an Indian pilot that has flown radical designs such as the SU-47 and SU-57? Sorry to tell you but India does not have anyone close to Bogdan’s pedigree. Next you will probably argue India has cosmonauts with the same experience as Russia but obviously that would be impossible because India has limited experience in the space field just like India has limited experience in aircraft design as a result India does not have personnel as qualified as Russia, be it test pilots or cosmonauts.


Anyway su57 crashed recently probably because it was not flown by bogdon ! Lol or was it lmao.



This is childish, there was a glitch in the flight control computer. At least the pilot was experienced enough to safely eject and help engineers figure out what went wrong. The F-22 had a similar issue, Indian built and designed MKIs also had issues with software, the difference is Russia tested the aircraft rigorously and discovered the problem before it it was handed over to regiments while India failed to uncover flaws in its software. China has also had a rash of crashes due to software problems which ended up killing pilots.


Case in point, Bogdan is one of the most experienced pilots to ever fly, not just in Russia but in the world. We are again talking about a man that has been flying for 36 years, a man that has flown 55 different aircraft, one of a handful of pilots to ever fly forward swept wing aircraft, a man that has carrier landings under his belt and a man that has flown the most powerful twin engine aircraft ever created. His years of experience coupled with flying everything from high performance to sluggish aircraft in all environmental is unparalleled. Bogdan has also piloted as unusual and sometimes unpredictable aircraft give him experience that is not easily matched.




The batch for everything but Su35 and token Mig 35 (involving 2 units and no more unless other country orders) have ended.
Those Su34 were last jets out of 92 ordered in 2012
The reason i was expecting larger Su57 is because thats the only jet they'll have in production 2 years from now.


These were Russian Air Force orders only, this does not take into account deliveries Sukhoi made to India, China, Kazakhstan, Belarus or Vietnam. Sukhoi can produce large yearly orders, it’s a matter of orders. Your entire argument is incoherent and makes no sense...Russia has produced and will produce large serial batches yet you claim otherwise.
 
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Bhurki

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Nope.
NEW DELHI — India has awarded a $3.12 billion contract for local production of 464 T-90S main battle tanks after paying a technology transfer fee to Russia.

The contract was signed with little fanfare earlier this month. The deal stipulates that Russian original equipment manufacturer UralVagonZavod and arms export agency Rosoboronexport will be paid $1.2 billion for technology transfer, while India’s state-owned Ordnance Factory Board will be paid $1.92 billion for local production of 464 T-90S tanks, according to an Indian Ministry of Defence official.

Total contract worth 3.12 billion.

Vietnam paid $3.9 million for its T-90S tanks. India pays $6.7 million for the T-90S tanks because of the transfer fee.
Wow.. With the prices you've quoted, India must be planning to make thousands of extra tanks, or such an extra amount would not make sense.
 

Assassin 2.0

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you bash Russia?
Lamo i never bashed Russia.
Btw rest of the world is at 3 fan 6 stages Brits are developing 3 fan 5 stages engine.
Russians are stuck with 4 fan 9 stages engine.
( obsolete kaveri is also 3 fan 6 stage engine with multiple pass cooling blades) :)

There is zero practical reasons as to why Russia would risk handing over the Pak-fa to India. There is no need, since India would get the same
Umm every manufacturer claims big thing about it's product but reality hits the ground when we test it. Hence we couldn't trust Russian results with eyes closed.
India was not going to get jets or anything for free and neither Russia was being merciful saint by offering india su-57E.
This lack of cooperation is one of the reason why india went out of this bad deal.
 

IndianHawk

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It has little to do with flight hours but Bogdan probably has more then any Indian pilot anyways since he graduated in 1983 from Air Force academy. Name a single Indian pilot that flown 55 different types of aircraft...name an Indian pilot that has flown radical designs such as the SU-47 and SU-57? Sorry to tell you but India does not have anyone close to Bogdan’s pedigree
India have several pilots who are flying jets from 1980s . India operates most distinctive fleet of aircrafts in world as it's criticized as zoo. Indian pilots not only fly all top russian design but also western jets . Indian pilots have flown mig21/23/29 to su27/30/30mki to mirage to jaguar to rafale to f16 to gripen to LCA to f18 hornests !!! How many russian have flown western jets which are far more expensive than anything Russia ever build. Lol

Yes but poor Indian can't fly su57 . So be it keep it in Russia with precious bogdon . He can keep crashing it. Lol. We don't need it. Lol
 

IndianHawk

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Wow.. With the prices you've quoted, India must be planning to make thousands of extra tanks, or such an extra amount would not make sense.
It could very well be payment for something which cannot be mentioned otherwise.
 

IndianHawk

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Anyway this is amca thread no more su57 here.

Continue discussion on amca.

A committee under DR. Saraswat has set to recommend path for amca and 110kn engine. Also DSI divertless supersonic intake design have been completed which has reduced RCS significantly.
 

Neptune

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India have several pilots who are flying jets from 1980s . India operates most distinctive fleet of aircrafts in world as it's criticized as zoo. Indian pilots not only fly all top russian design but also western jets . Indian pilots have flown mig21/23/29 to su27/30/30mki to mirage to jaguar to rafale to f16 to gripen to LCA to f18 hornests !!! How many russian have flown western jets which are far more expensive than anything Russia ever build. Lol

Yes but poor Indian can't fly su57 . So be it keep it in Russia with precious bogdon . He can keep crashing it. Lol. We don't need it. Lol


Some Russian pilots have also flown some Western aircraft too, so what? you still have not answered my question, name one Indian pilot that has flown 55 different aircraft including rare experimental aircraft and has 36 years experience. You forgot Bogdan helped in the development of the Pak-fa and SU-35, he gave valuable impute from the SU-47 program too.

Even if a few lucky Indian pilots flew, or more precisely got a backseat ride in a western aircraft it does not mean they are certified on the platform nor is there a single Indian pilot that has flown all the aircraft you mentioned. You can’t serious say, well this Indian pilot flew a Mig-23, this one flew a Mig-21 and now flies an SU-30 and this Mirage pilot once got a backseat ride in an F-16, therefore India has a pilot at the level of Bogdan.

Reality is that there is zero-Indian pilots that have flown and are certified on 55 different aircraft types and has 36 years experience and has helped in the development of aircraft. This would explain why Sukhoi only allowed Bogdan to fly the SU-57 at least initially after he trained other highly qualified and experienced pilots.
 

fire starter

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Some Russian pilots have also flown some Western aircraft too, so what? you still have not answered my question, name one Indian pilot that has flown 55 different aircraft including rare experimental aircraft and has 36 years experience. You forgot Bogdan helped in the development of the Pak-fa and SU-35, he gave valuable impute from the SU-47 program too.

Even if a few lucky Indian pilots flew, or more precisely got a backseat ride in a western aircraft it does not mean they are certified on the platform nor is there a single Indian pilot that has flown all the aircraft you mentioned. You can’t serious say, well this Indian pilot flew a Mig-23, this one flew a Mig-21 and now flies an SU-30 and this Mirage pilot once got a backseat ride in an F-16, therefore India has a pilot at the level of Bogdan.

Reality is that there is zero-Indian pilots that have flown and are certified on 55 different aircraft types and has 36 years experience and has helped in the development of aircraft. This would explain why Sukhoi only allowed Bogdan to fly the SU-57 at least initially after he trained other highly qualified and experienced pilots.
we have very well experienced pilots in both divisions that's why we were able to develop NLCA . meanwhile china still lacks naval pilots and they do 33% less sortie than Indian pilot.
 

IndianHawk

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Some Russian pilots have also flown some Western aircraft too, so what? you still have not answered my question, name one Indian pilot that has flown 55 different aircraft including rare experimental aircraft and has 36 years experience. You forgot Bogdan helped in the development of the Pak-fa and SU-35, he gave valuable impute from the SU-47 program too.

Even if a few lucky Indian pilots flew, or more precisely got a backseat ride in a western aircraft it does not mean they are certified on the platform nor is there a single Indian pilot that has flown all the aircraft you mentioned. You can’t serious say, well this Indian pilot flew a Mig-23, this one flew a Mig-21 and now flies an SU-30 and this Mirage pilot once got a backseat ride in an F-16, therefore India has a pilot at the level of Bogdan.

Reality is that there is zero-Indian pilots that have flown and are certified on 55 different aircraft types and has 36 years experience and has helped in the development of aircraft. This would explain why Sukhoi only allowed Bogdan to fly the SU-57 at least initially after he trained other highly qualified and experienced pilots.
We don't glorify single pilots just because they flew a lot of soviat crap. 55 aircraft what a joke. Su47 was a failed design and su35 is just a refinement of su30mki nothing more. It doesn't even have an aesa .

So only 36 years experience pilot can flew su57 and no one else. Good then keep bogdon ready to serve untill su57 retires . What idiotic logic is this.

Like I said before indians can't fly su57 keep it in Russia and never ever send it to India. Now go back to pakfa thread and leave this thread alone . Enough of your bogdon this is thread about AMCA.
 

Neptune

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we have very well experienced pilots in both divisions that's why we were able to develop NLCA . meanwhile china still lacks naval pilots and they do 33% less sortie than Indian pilot.

I’m not arguing that Indian pilots are not experienced or talented. Most people regard India as having excellent combat pilots. We specifically are talking about India have a test pilot with Bogdan’s experience. There is a reason Bogdan was chosen to fly the SU-57 and help in its developed, its why he was chosen to be the chief test pilot for the SU-35 and the test pilot for the SU-47 and dozens of other aircraft.

Often times it’s Russian pilots that are chose to be flight commanders of the international space station. It’s simply, they have some of the most experienced pilots that then go to become cosmonauts and then flight commanders which are responsible for safely flying international crews.
 

Neptune

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We don't glorify single pilots just because they flew a lot of soviat crap.

In other words no Indian pilot has flown 55 aircraft....



55 aircraft what a joke.

No it’s a fact, your arguments are jokes.



Su47 was a failed


It was an experimental aircraft just like X-47. It was meant for studying forward swept wings, weapons bays, composites, avionics and aerodynamic. It helped in the design of other aircraft. Only thing that failed is you.


design and su35 is just a refinement of su30mki nothing more.


This is a facepalm comment. The SU-35 doesn’t have canards and is single seat platform, it’s engines and radar far outclass the MKI, it’s FBW is far more advanced.

The following are complete different aircraft:

SU-35
SU-30
SU-34





So only 36 years experience pilot can flew su57 and no one else. Good then keep bogdon ready to serve untill su57 retires . What idiotic logic is this.


No it means he was the most experienced and qualified pilot for the SU-57. The rest of your sentence doesn’t make sense. As for you telling me to go away and stop talking about the SU-57 and test pilots, it was Indians in this thread that mentioned the SU-57 and then complained about Indian test pilots not being allowed to fly the SU-57. I explained why that was so and some Indians like yourself didn’t like that.
 

Bleh

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@Neptune @muzzies slayer @Assassin 2.0 @Bhurki Guys, this is the AMCA thread... :scared2:
A committee under DR. Saraswat has set to recommend path for amca and 110kn engine. Also DSI divertless supersonic intake design have been completed which has reduced RCS significantly.
More on this two please... These are both big news, don't just say them like that!

Any links?
 

IndianHawk

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In other words no Indian pilot has flown 55 aircraft....
Name 55 jets he flew and not copies of each other. Name 55 different jets including wester jets.

It was an experimental aircraft just like X-47. It was meant for studying forward swept wings, weapons bays, composites, avionics and aerodynamic. It helped in the design of other aircraft. Only thing that failed is you.
What aircraft was designed on these concept wings name one in service?
This is a facepalm comment. The SU-35 doesn’t have canards and is single seat platform, it’s engines and radar far outclass the MKI, it’s FBW is far more advanced.
Bwahaha su35 doesn't even have an aesa . Lol.
No it means he was the most experienced and qualified pilot for the SU-57. The rest of your sentence doesn’t make sense. As for you telling me to go away and stop talking about the SU-57 and test pilots, it was Indians in this thread that mentioned the SU-57 and then complained about Indian test pilots not being allowed to fly the SU-57. I explained why that was so and some Indians like yourself didn’t like that.
It's a stupid argument. Everyone uses experienced pilots on prototype but no one insists on a single test piolet! Not American not Chinese not french not Indian . It's just stupid. Modern jets are so safe to fly that children can fly them with proper instructions they are not 1950s death machines.
 

Neptune

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Name 55 jets he flew and not copies of each other. Name 55 different jets including wester jets.


He flew 55 different aircraft, some were variants of the same aircraft but are nevertheless different aircraft when flight testing is concerned.

I’m obviously not going to list 55 aircraft, his biography mentions some of those aircraft including SU-57, SU-35, SU-25TM, Mig-29S, SU-24M2, SU-27KUB, SU-30MK2. Hundreds of aircraft have been developed in the Soviet Union and Russia, some of which you probably didn’t even knew existed there are or was at least 9 aircraft manufacturers in the Soviet Union/Russia. Tupolev, Yak, Sukhoi, Mig, Antonov, Kamarov, Mil, Kazan, KB-SAT.


What aircraft was designed on these concept wings name one in service?



You are tap dancing and diverting the topic as well as trying to discredit one of the words most experienced pilots which is pitiful since Bogdan helped India with the MKI program. I mentioned the SU-47 tested many concepts not just forward swept wings, some of the valuable research was incorporated into the SU-57. It wasn’t just forward swept wings but composites, aerodynamics, avionics, weapons bays and many other concepts that were tested on the SU-47. The aircraft is still being tested to this day.

And the SU-47 helped pave the way for the SR-10, it’s not operational yet but still is the result of the SU-47 and Bogdan:


D86A097B-E101-4F89-9B4D-59C38182B681.jpeg



Bwahaha su35 doesn't even have an aesa . Lol.



What does AESA have to do with anything? You claimed the SU-35 is just a refined SU-30MKI which is laughable and totally wrong.



It's a stupid argument. Everyone uses experienced pilots on prototype but no one insists on a single test piolet! Not American not Chinese not french not Indian . It's just stupid. Modern jets are so safe to fly that children can fly them with proper instructions they are not 1950s death machines.

This is cringe, I’m sure a child could really fly a high performance aircraft, push the aircraft to its limits and safely recover it if it goes into an uncomfortable flat spin or has a malfunction, I’m sure a child could conduct weapons trials, night flights and many other tests of the aircraft flight performance and avionics then after each test flight debrief engineers and designers.

Any child can do that I’m sure, any child could make life and death decisions too, I’m sure if necessary a child can wisely eject or try to fly an aircraft that may have mechanical problems back to base. Do you have any idea how many test aircraft have crashed and how many pilots have been killed. Almost every aircraft ever developed crashed or nearly crashed at some point.
 

IndianHawk

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Do you have any idea how many test aircraft have crashed and how many pilots have been killed. Almost every aircraft ever developed crashed or nearly crashed at some point.
I know one su57 crashed recently. Why russian couldn't find someone 36 years of experience to fly it. Or the bogdon got confused it with another of 55 aircraft and crashed it. Lol.

You did not answer any question just ranted incoherently. Now you are just spamming the thread. My point still stands india had more than enough experience pilots to fly su57. Disputing that is just idiotic after all your Uber experiencced russian pilots still crashed it . Lol
 

IndianHawk

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First is sourav Jha tweet. And DSI info is in DDR article on AMCA.
This is the article. Progress on AMCA

http://delhidefencereview.com/2019/...rogramme-gathers-steam-with-new-developments/

Design work on DSI is complete and this has apparently resulted in a significant reduction in the overall radar cross-section (RCS) of the baseline AMCA airframe design.

We might see DSI in mwf itself as

As of now, a centerline fuel tank carried by a prototype from the LCA family has been modified and fitted with AMCA FADS hardware for the purpose of developmental testing. Interestingly, some developments from the AMCA effort are also finding their way back to the MWF project and even HAL’s Tejas Mk1A programme.

the first AMCA-TD is expected to fly by the fiscal year 2024-25, with the AMCA Mk1 configuration projected to enter series production by 2029-30. The IAF has committed to acquiring a couple of squadrons of the AMCA MkI

Certain ‘sixth generation’ characteristics such as the ability to be optionally manned are being envisaged by ADA for the AMCA MkII. Incidentally, automatic take-off and landing (ATOL) capability, which is a key requirement if the AMCA MkII has to be optionally manned, will be initially tested on an LCA-Navy prototype.

ATOL is, obviously, also a crucial capability for the ‘Ghatak’ single-engined unmanned combat aerial vehicle (UCAV) that is currently under development with DRDO’s Aeronautical Development Establishment (ADE). This UCAV, with a currently projected MTOW of around 13 tons, will have a wingspan greater than that of the Tejas Mk1. It will be powered by a non-afterburning turbofan developed from the core of the Kaveri jet engine and an initial sum of Rs 500 crores has been sanctioned for this purpose. ADA says that both the IAF and the Indian Navy have expressed great interest in the Ghatak

The Expression of Interest (EOI) to build the two TDs was floated back in 2018 itself and has received responses from several domestic firms.
 

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