ADA Tejas (LCA) News and Discussions

[rahulrds1]

I too don't know why tere was a delay in ordering quartz radome. bt tamil Mani has said that the responsibility for the delay lies with Cobham and not with ADA. I will try to find the link and post it.

Director-General (Aero R&D) K.Tamilmani, who heads all aeronautical development projects at the Defence Research & Development Organisation, told The Hindu that the developer, Aeronautical Development Agency, continues to wait for two imports from U.K. vendor Cobham: namely the quartz nose cone to test the radar performance of the plane; and the refuelling probe.

"If we get them by March this year as promised, then we can complete the remaining tests by September," Dr. Tamilmani said. They are required for the last lap of the project

Cobham Official web site : Cobham plc :: Advanced Electronic Solutions, Integrated Electronic Solutions, Baltimore, Radome & Composite Design

http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/indian-air-force/43717-ada-lca-tejas-iv-269.html#post994211
Parrikar hands over LCA SP-1 to Air Force - The Hindu

December 20, 2014
It seems that the probe will only reach Indian shores by the end of January 2015 and the first of a total three units of the new nose cone will arrive a month or so later. It is understood that IAF teams have been making visits to Cobham to lean on them to deliver these items faster.

'If Cobham had kept its delivery timelines, the idea was to wrap up ground check outs for the IFR probe in October-November and then commence flight trials says. Some 20-25 day/night flights at different altitudes and speeds would be needed to clear the IFR system and had the probe been delivered in September, it would have easily been cleared before mid-2015', says Dr Tamilmani .

He also says that adding the probe itself and flying it is not an issue since it has already been integrated on the hi-fidelity Tejas simulator developed by DRDO's Aeronautical Development Establishment (ADE) and has even been flown by test-pilots on it.

Now the new quartz nose cone supplied by Cobham replaces an indigenous one and is expected to help the Mk-I's multi-mode radar (MMR) (which has an indigenous antenna and scanner but an Elta EL/M-2032 processing back end) achieve 60 per cent more range than with the latter. The indigenous nose cone has of course already been fully qualified for all modes of the MMR but the current loss through this composite part limits the MMR's detection range to around 50 kms for a fighter sized target and this is expected to increase to more than 80 kms with the new quartz nose cone.

According to Dr Tamilmani, the first nose cone that Cobham made 'had problems' with appreciable losses which led them to making a second cone that is still undergoing structural load tests in the UK. This second nose cone will be supplied to India only in February 2015 and besides spot checks some 50 sorties will have to be flown to qualify this new nose cone. Though three Tejas flight vehicles outfitted with the MMR are ready to receive the new quartz nose cones, the delivery schedule is staggered with the remaining two being delivered at an interval of a month each after the first one. So as per Dr Tamilmani, there are no technological issues deferring FOC but merely process related ones subject to the vagaries of the foreign supplier for the two aforesaid parts.

source : Saurav Jha's Blog : The Radiance of Tejas: A bright prospect for 'Make in India'

 

[rahulrds1]

Air-to-Air Refueling Explained

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfWONx4riag

 

[brahmastra11]

Any data on external load of Su-30 MKI / Mig 29 while it attain top speed on sea level ?

Tejas can fly supersonic with external loads, the sea level top speed of tejas mk1 is the same as that of SU-30 MKI and mig-29.

 

[aero_sp]

So the logical thing is to make Tejas with Carbon Fiber radome and replace radome later. It is not that the carbon radome does not work.
Quartz radome is an optional item. Mig-21 does not have quartz radome which Tejas is supposed to replace. Even Mirage 2000 does not have quartz radome.

IAF is imposing quartz radome on ADA. These are last minute requirement changes, which are being accommodated.

Quartz radome is not being forced but it is the solution to the reduced radar range. As all other aircrafts have metal radom their resistance to the radar pulses are lower than carbon fibre radome. High resistant of the carbon fibre material caused significant loss of strength of the radar signal returning from enemy aircraft. Hence as solution to this problem Quartz Radoms were thought of to be fitted on LCA.

 

[sgarg]

Quartz radome is not being forced but it is the solution to the reduced radar range. As all other aircrafts have metal radom their resistance to the radar pulses are lower than carbon fibre radome. High resistant of the carbon fibre material caused significant loss of strength of the radar signal returning from enemy aircraft. Hence as solution to this problem Quartz Radoms were thought of to be fitted on LCA.

As I explained, it is an optional item. The radar must be seen along with the weapons the aircraft carries. A 50 km range is adequate if the air-air missile carried is similar or lower range.

The practical BVR engagement for Tejas should be in 30-40 km range with an Astra missile or similar Russian missile.

Nothing wrong in fitting quartz radome or making a "Mig-21 replacement" better than Mirage 2000. But it must be clear that these are NOT baseline requirements.

 

[aero_sp]

The issue of integrating gun, BVR etc. is beings secessionalized in media reports. IAF have already placed an order for 20 LCAs in IOC configuration and they are waiting for it since long. It is already decided that rest of the things will be integrated in FOC configuration. HAL will need another year to deliver 20 aircrafts till then FOC will be achived. Things are simple hearon but stated complicatedly by media while reporting. I have read strange articles related to range of issues far away from reality and quated little in negative way blaming DRDO. God knowes who are funding them.

 

[Compersion]

would be good to see LCA(s) in the republic day ... american contribution would be highlighted (e.g. engine)

 

[ersakthivel]

Any data on external load of Su-30 MKI / Mig 29 while it attain top speed on sea level ?

All sea level top speed figures and high altitude top speed figures for all the fighters , are for clean configuration with no external fuel tanks, missiles or weapons.

 

[ersakthivel]

All Missiles are command guided upto a point . That is when end game seekers take over . Relying on the home radar to guide to missile right upto impact is significantly worse than having active seekers on the missile . The command guided missile is far more vulnerable to the jammer than one that has an onboard seeker .
.Any EW suit worth its salt will know the moment the search radar of the akash or any SAM picks it up not when the missile is within 4 Km .
What do you mean in the future missile will have both command guidance and active seekers ?The Barak is ready now Aster and many more missile use active seekers whereas initial targetting is done by the ship land/radar .Even BVR missiles are guided for a time by the radar on the aircraft .
DFRMs are not a magical shield that make all aircraft invulnerable. It depends solely on the qualtity of the product . It is field where the west is far far ahead . If this was not so Russia would not need to use western jammers on their new export aircraft .
Akash represents very old technology .)Look at any class of missile command guided missiles represent the oldest generation of guided missiles .Precisely for this reason the Barak 8/LR SAM will be the SAM of the future for the Airforce and army not any akash 2 (which supposedly has a semiactive seeker)
Also the F 35 is single engine aircraft and was supposed to be cheap they just screwed it up . If by fighter mafia do you mean the interview of the designer of the f 16 ?
On the last point technology advance for both the sword and the shield . Newer seekers are designed all the time as well as missiles with better processing power that can reject noise better , Things don't stay static.

All Missiles are command guided upto a point . That is when end game seekers take over . Relying on the home radar to guide to missile right upto impact is significantly worse than having active seekers on the missile . The command guided missile is far more vulnerable to the jammer than one that has an onboard seeker .
.Any EW suit worth its salt will know the moment the search radar of the akash or any SAM picks it up not when the missile is within 4 Km .
What do you mean in the future missile will have both command guidance and active seekers ?The Barak is ready now Aster and many more missile use active seekers whereas initial targetting is done by the ship land/radar .Even BVR missiles are guided for a time by the radar on the aircraft .
DFRMs are not a magical shield that make all aircraft invulnerable. It depends solely on the qualtity of the product . It is field where the west is far far ahead . If this was not so Russia would not need to use western jammers on their new export aircraft .
Akash represents very old technology .)Look at any class of missile command guided missiles represent the oldest generation of guided missiles .Precisely for this reason the Barak 8/LR SAM will be the SAM of the future for the Airforce and army not any akash 2 (which supposedly has a semiactive seeker)
Also the F 35 is single engine aircraft and was supposed to be cheap they just screwed it up . If by fighter mafia do you mean the interview of the designer of the f 16 ?
On the last point technology advance for both the sword and the shield . Newer seekers are designed all the time as well as missiles with better processing power that can reject noise better , Things don't stay static.

@cobra commando
The Indian Defense Research and Development Organization (DRDO) has decided to increase the range of the Aakash Surface to air missile (SAM), one of its successful programs, and provide it with a 'seeker' in its warhead to achieve better targeting efficiency. Reliable sources in the DRDO are not willing to divulge too many details about these two important elements – the range and the seeker – just yet. The Indian army and air force has ordered an unspecified number of missiles at a combined cost of Rs 23,000 crores ($3.8 billion). And experts believe that as the traditional air defense systems like Russian systems like Pechoras legacy systems are phased out, the demand for Aakash systems will increase. Till now the Aakash SAM system could reach ranges of the nature of 25 kilometers and target aircrafts. It had a radio frequency proximity fuse. The increased range will means an ability to target faster moving aircraft. The 700-kg Akash missile can carry a 60-kg warhead at speeds of up to Mach 2.5. It can be launched from a fixed as well as a mobile platform.
Indian Akash Missile To See Range Increase

 

[sgarg]

A suitably configured EW plane can jam a ground based radar, but I completely disagree that a normal fighter can do that. Jamming needs a lot of power. The command signal from ground based radar will be stronger (in most cases) compared with jamming signal from the target aircraft. The command guidance is the correct approach to building SAMs.

If DRDO wants to supplement command guidance with onboard seeker, it makes sense; but not as a standalone.

A fast moving aircraft has disadvantages in jamming compared to ground based radar which is stationary and stable.

Let IAF come out and disprove based on its experimentation; and not based on second rate information or ADVICE of foreigners.

 

[sgarg]

India needs Akash systems in large numbers which is happening now. We must bolster defences far more than offensive capability.
The offensive capability must be based more on cruise missiles, ballistic missiles and other standoff weapons.
Over-reliance on manned aircraft is illogical.

 

[PaliwalWarrior]

THE neww Seeker in AAkash may well be

an AESA based Radar seeker


DRDO is working on such a seeker and i think in some russian a2a missiles already have such type of seekers ?

SO in future

Aakash & Astra may both be armed with AESA radar seekers

 

[rohit b3]

Happy Republic Day ,Guys.
Im posting this comment regarding today's parade.
On one hand, The Govt. says they are gonna focus on indigenization this republic Day, while on the other hand they neither showcase Tejas, nor the Arjun mk1 or mk2. Instead they are more happy showcasing Jaguars/Mig29s and T90s/T72s.
Logically thinking , thats totally absurd. Shouldn this day be about the pride over our own achievements? Tejas/ Arjun mk1/Arjun mk2 and even LCH were perfect example of this pride.
This is what I like to point out, These people(Govt.) Say something and Do something else.

 

[cannonfodder]

I didn't see the entire the parade. But if this is true, it is indeed sad. We should have particularly showcased Tejas-1 which use GE engine and indicate the importance of US-Indian co-operation in defense industry.

It shows an general reluctant attitude of armed forces to show pride in self made technology( and to use that product). May we should sell all indeginized equipments with "made in russia/us/france" tag and pay some hafta that may cheer them up.

Happy Republic Day ,Guys.
Im posting this comment regarding today's parade.
On one hand, The Govt. says they are gonna focus on indigenization this republic Day, while on the other hand they neither showcase Tejas, nor the Arjun mk1 or mk2. Instead they are more happy showcasing Jaguars/Mig29s and T90s/T72s.
Logically thinking , thats totally absurd. Shouldn this day be about the pride over our own achievements? Tejas/ Arjun mk1/Arjun mk2 and even LCH were perfect example of this pride.
This is what I like to point out, These people(Govt.) Say something and Do something else.

 

[cobra commando]

Tejas achieves another milestone

(Unedited Release)

With three consecutive start- ups of its engine after overnight soak in extreme cold (around -15ºC) conditions of Laddakh winter, that too without any external assistance, Tejas, the Indian Light Combat Aircraft has achieved yet another and a rare distinction. Starting the fighter aircraft under such extreme condition without any external assistance or heating is a technology challenge. The requirements become further stringent when the starting is to be done three times consecutively with a partially charged battery. Team LCA led by AERD&C of HAL, and members from ADA, NFTC, IAF, CEMILAC and DGAQA have succeeded in achieving this. "The team LCA has achieved a technological breakthrough", stated Dr. PS Subramanyam PGD (CA) & Director, ADA. The engine starter is developed indigenously by HAL Aero Engine Research and Design Centre (AERDC), Bangalore. Prior to aircraft tests, the Jet Fuel Starter (JFS) was extensively tested on test rig to meet starting conditions across the operating altitudes including Leh (10,700 ft.) and Khardungla (18300 ft.). The control software of JFS was fine tuned to work at all operating altitudes with no adjustments from cockpit. GE- F404-IN20 engine start up control schedule was also varied with several control patches to establish reliable start.

 

[tejas warrior]

Well Done Team Tejas !!

But these test was done for Tejas Mk I OR Tejas MKII ?

 

[Khagesh]

ILSS-OBOGS development

drdo. gov. in /drdo / pub/newsletter/2015/feb_15.pdf

Indigenous On-board Oxygen Generating Systembased Integrated Life Support System for Tejas


The ILSS-OBOGS, indigenous on-board oxygen generating system (OBOGS)-based integrated life support system (ILSS), designed and developed by Defence Biomedical and Electromedical Laboratory (DEBEL),
Bengaluru, to provide enhanced physiological protection to aircrew of high speed and high altitude fighter aircraft Tejas with primary objective of meeting long endurance flights was handed over by Dr VC Padaki, Outstanding Scientist (OS), Director, DEBEL, to Dr PS Subramaniam, DS, Programme Director, Combat Aircrafts and Director Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA), Bengaluru. Dr K Tamilmani, DS, DG (Aero), DRDO, and Dr Manas K Mandal, DS, DG (Life Sciences), DRDO, and Directors of Bengaluru-based laboratories were present during the ceremony.

Congratulating the team Dr Avinash Chander, SA to RM, Secretary, Department of Defence R&D and DG DRDO lauded the achievement and said that development of ILSS-OBOGS is a major achievement and shows DRDO's commitment to deliver complex technologies to our armed forces.

Emphasising the role of working together towards development of multidisciplinary systems Dr Mandal said, "Deliverability comes only if there is multidisciplinarity. Individuals do not make a team, the team makes an individual."

Dr Tamilmani, emphasised the importance of synergy and lauded the dedicated work of the young team of scientists and said, "Technology breakthrough for OBOGS for future airborne platforms is now within
our capability".

Dr Subramaniam appreciated the role played by different stakeholders in the development of ILSSOBOGS. Designed to get integrated within the confined space available in the aircraft, the OBOGS replaces the liquid oxygen-based system using bleed air from aircraft engine by separating oxygen from other components using technology based on Pressure Swing Adsorption (PSA). Designed to provide breathing gas to aircrew continuously, OBOGS technology offers advantage of unlimited endurance in the sky unlike liquid oxygen system wherein endurance is limited by the storage capacity. In addition, it also provides improved safety, reduced logistics and significantly lowered operational costs. The advanced ILSS-OBOGS addresses in-flight Hypoxia (during high altitude flying and emergency escape) and gravity induced loss of consciousness (G-LOC) during high G manoeuvres.

The technology consists of On-Board Oxygen Generation System (OBOGS) that provides oxygen for breathing, a breathing regulator that supplies the breathing gas to the aircrew at desired flow and pressure, an anti G valve (AGV) that inflates the anti G suit to apply desired counter pressure and an Electronic Controller Unit (ECU) to coordinate various functions. A dedicated solid-state oxygen sensor to sense oxygen concentration in the breathing gas is an integral part of the system.

Many other sub-systems that provide back-up/ redundancy and also impart life support during emergency escape, are integral part of the ILSSOBOGS that will now undergo ground fitment trials on Tejas, followed by flight trials. The ILSS-OBOGS has the versatility to be customised to the needs of other Indian fighter aircraft like MiG-29, Sukhoi-30 Mk1 and Mirage-2000. India will join the elite club of five countries who have established and mastered ILSS technology once the trials are successfully completed.

Image:

imgur . com/ iDLEMuu

 

[Punya Pratap]

Well Done Team Tejas !!

But these test was done for Tejas Mk I OR Tejas MKII ?

I wish it was MK 2 but it is nt ... coz MK 2 is still on the drawing board

 

[Kunal Biswas]

The difference is between both are only the engine and avionics ..

Most of the test done for MK1 is already for MK2 ..

I wish it was MK 2 but it is nt ... coz MK 2 is still on the drawing board

 

[Pulkit]

The difference is between both are only the engine and avionics ..

Most of the test done for MK1 is already for MK2 ..

I beg to differ .
The change in Engine leads to change in structure in short everything.

The dimensional difference leads to the space taken up by the engine.
The difference in weight leads to change in load carrying ability of the parts.
Change in power leads to more rigid frame.

As per my knowledge it will be having larger fuselage which means more empty space that leads to variable centre of gravity (consumption of fuel).

So with that it leads to in one way or the other change in almost everything.

What we learn from MK1 is the steps taken to rectify to meet requirements which can be kept in mind while building MK2 for faster clearances.