ADA Tejas (LCA) News and Discussions

[aero_sp]

Has the radar range been quantified without the cone?

I don't have any confirmation on this but when the radar was identified not providing desired performance it was concluded that it is due to carbon fibre cone as it is less conductive for the radar emissions. Root cause analysis must have been done including testings required before conclusion.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

MMR : 50km is for 2 sq meters = 63kms for 5sq meters, Without Quartz radome according to IOC-2 report ..

With Quartz Radome range is +100kms according Saruv Jha`s tweets ..

============

^^ Tejas PV-6 of IOC-2 grade fighter trainer seen with new radome ..

Has the radar range been quantified without the cone?

I don't have any confirmation on this but when the radar was identified not providing desired performance it was concluded that it is due to carbon fibre cone as it is less conductive for the radar emissions. Root cause analysis must have been done including testings required before conclusion.

 

[janme]

MMR : 50km is for 2 sq meters = 63kms for 5sq meters, Without Quartz radome according to IOC-2 report ..

With Quartz Radome range is +100kms according Saruv Jha`s tweets ..

============

^^ Tejas PV-6 of IOC-2 grade fighter trainer seen with new radome ..

50 km for 2 sq.m. is tracking range or detection range?

 

[Kunal Biswas]

I think more details @ersakthivel can shed light in this ..

50 km for 2 sq.m. is tracking range or detection range?

 

[PaliwalWarrior]

MMR : 50km is for 2 sq meters = 63kms for 5sq meters, Without Quartz radome according to IOC-2 report ..

With Quartz Radome range is +100kms according Saruv Jha`s tweets ..

============

^^ Tejas PV-6 of IOC-2 grade fighter trainer seen with new radome ..

so new radome has been deliveredmto HAL ?

what about IFR probe ?

 

[rahulrds1]

Director-General (Aero R&D) K.Tamilmani, who heads all aeronautical development projects at the Defence Research & Development Organisation, told The Hindu that the developer, Aeronautical Development Agency, continues to wait for two imports from U.K. vendor Cobham: namely the quartz nose cone to test the radar performance of the plane; and the refuelling probe.

"If we get them by March this year as promised, then we can complete the remaining tests by September," Dr. Tamilmani said. They are required for the last lap of the project

Cobham Official web site :
Cobham plc :: Advanced Electronic Solutions, Integrated Electronic Solutions, Baltimore, Radome & Composite Design

source : Parrikar hands over LCA SP-1 to Air Force - The Hindu

 

[ladder]

BTW What happened to IAF's lead-in-fighter trainer requirement? Last I read, IAF was looking for about 100 of these trainers after MiG-21s retire, which are currently being used for LIFT. Speculations were strong and rightfully so that Tejas MK-1 was suitable for LIFT requirements. Any news on that front?

Additionally, why can't HAL's production schedule increase from 16 aircrafts of all varieties? Whether Su-30MKI, ALH Dhruv, LCA Tejas, you name it, HAL can produce only 16 at max. With this rate of production, it would take two decades for a platform to get inducted in respectful numbers. Why can't HAL manufacture 30 or more aircraft platforms annually like other companies in America or even China? If LCA Tejas MK-1 is produced in good numbers, it could be eventually upgraded to Mk-2 standards later like it was done to F-16, Mirage or any other aircraft. So why such tiny production number?

1. It's not clear but probably the 2 seat-er trainer will serve as LIFT. It is rumoured that 16 of them will be ordered apart from the 8 among the 40 which are already ordered.

2. ALH Dhruv's production capacity is 30 PA currently being increased to 40.

3. Mk-1 might not be upgradeable to Mk-2 standards, I am not confident. May be someone can confirm whether it is possible or not.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

My job is to clear all hurdles for forces, says Manohar Parrikar

By Anantha Krishnan M

Thirteen hours of non-stop meetings, facility visits, speeches in between, listening to attention-seeking officials, visitors and photo sessions hardly seemed to have frazzled India's Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar.Parked a few metres from his make-shift office was a Service aircraft ready to transport him and the battery of officials to the next destination. "The take-off is at 8 pm," reminded one of his aides.Parrikar adjusts his reading glasses and says matter-of-factly. "You go ahead with your questions, I am listening."He takes a look at the watch. "It's 7.40 (pm). Okay, go-ahead," he says, nodding his head. It was time for a really supersonic interview before the scheduled take-off at 8 pm. Excerpts from the interview granted to OneIndia.


* IAF keen on Tejas squadron at the earliest

Having gone through various presentations on Tejas through the day and handed over the documents of the HAL-built first series production (SP-1) aircraft to the Indian Air Force, Parrikar seemed to have grasped more information about India's late, but light and bright fighter jet. "Tejas is India's in-house project and it had its share of concerns. I am convinced that it is a fine aircraft and we need to move on now. The IAF should get the aircraft on time so that they can form the squadron without any more delays," Parrikar said. Saying that lots of hard work has gone behind the project, the Defence Minister noted that the future of Tejas will depend upon the full scale series production. "There are small issues and all those will get sorted out. I am impressed with the flying display of the Tejas. I have heard a lot about Tejas and saw it from close quarters today. The IAF wants to form the Tejas Squadron at the earliest," he added. The minister said that the Tejas Mk-2 project is also on track and stake-holders in the project will have to put in their best efforts. "Meeting the timelines is the key and we are here to extend all possible help," he added.

Read more at: OneIndia Exclusive: My job is to clear all hurdles for forces, says Manohar Parrikar - Oneindia

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Tejas LCA EW Suite Explained

Tejas LCA is to be equipped with an EW suite developed by DRDO's Defense Avionics Research Establishment (DARE) in collaboration with Israel. The EW suite contains radar illumination, laser illumination and missile-lock warnings, a radar jammer and a flare dispenser. The suite is capable of dealing with multiple simultaneous threats from air or ground.

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Radar Warning and Jammer Suite (RWJS)

The EW suite centerpiece is an integrated Radar Warning and Jammer Suite (RWJS) that can detect when the aircraft is being illuminated by enemy radar, determine the type of radar (ground based or airborne) and its operating mode (track-while-scan, lock-on); alert the pilot and facilitate neutralization of any radar guided surface-to-air or air-to-air missile threat through Digital Radio Frequency Memory (DRFM) based signal jamming.

Digital Radio Frequency Memory (DRFM) is an electronic method for digitally capturing and coherently re-transmitting RF signal such that the transmitting radar cannot distinguish it from other returns that it receives and processes as targets.

The re-transmitted signal can be tweaked to create false range targets both behind (reactive jamming) and ahead of (predictive jamming) the target intended for protection. Slight variations in frequency can be made to create Doppler (velocity) errors in the victim receiver as well. DRFM can also be used to create distorted phase-fronts at the victim receive antenna which is essential for countering monopulse radar angular measurement techniques.

The DARE RWJS provides 360-deg coverage.Previous generation fighters, like IAF Jaguars, are equipped with just a Radar Warning Receiver (RWR), which could only alert the pilot to hostile radio frequency emissions, but not jam them.If the DARE EW Suite clears its currently underway (January 2015) trials, Tejas would become the first Indian fighter aircraft to be fitted with a Radar Warner and Jammer equipment.The DARE RWJS is similar to ELT/568(V)2 developed by Italy's Elettronica S.p.A. and EL/L-8247/8 developed by Israel's ELTA.Typically a RWJS can be integrated with any airborne platform's avionics, including Chaff and Flares Dispenser, Missile Warning System, Laser Warning System, Towed RF Decoy and Multi-Function Display. It is flight-line re-programmable. Using PC-based equipment and user-friendly human-machine interface, threats and jamming EW techniques may be easily updated.

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RWJS Functioning Typically RWJS functions as follows:


1. The RF signals received via the receiving Antennas are amplified by Front-End Amplifiers and fed to the advanced Channelized Receiver in the Central Unit.

2. The Receiver measures all the RF signals parameters such as PRF, PRI, PW, direction etc., building pulse descriptors that are fed to the Central Processor.

3. The Central Processor extracts the threats according to priority and level of lethality and provides the situation awareness to the pilot via the Multi-Function display.

4. Upon detection of a lethal threat, the Central Processor activates the Jammer, selecting the appropriate EW technique for each threat. The jammer is capable of responding simultaneously to several threats by implementing Power Management techniques.

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EW Suite Development Progress

The suite was test flown for the first time on Tejas PV1 on January 10, 2015 at HAL airport in Bengaluru. According to a DRDO press release "the equipment was noted to be detecting Radar signals operating in and around the flight path."Over the coming few months, ADA and DARE will be scheduling further sorties to evaluate the system in various signal scenarios.An EW system developed by DARE for MiG-29 UPG reportedly was rejected by the IAF due to performance shortfalls.The suite was earlier tested on the ground using simulation. Airborne testing on PV-1 was initially expected to start in November 2013 or early December 2013.In October 2013, Deccan Herald reported that DRDO has fitted the EW suite on LCA PV-1.PV-1 had been on the ground since 2001-02, having flown 242 test flights till then. According to MoD's annual report for 2013-14, Ground Acceptance Test (GAT) has been completed.IDP Sentinel members can remain updated on the Tejas project by visiting the link below.

Source : Thum! Kaun Aata Hai?: Tejas LCA EW Suite Explained

 

[karn]

Wasn't this the same EW suit that was rejected for the Darin upgrade and the Mig 29UPG upgrade ?
Or is this an updated version of that ?

 

[ersakthivel]

Wasn't this the same EW suit that was rejected for the Darin upgrade and the Mig 29UPG upgrade ?
Or is this an updated version of that ?

This EW suite was fitted with DRFM based jamer. Do you know what DRFM based Ew suit is all about? Do you know whether the rejected DARIN suite also had such a DRFM based jamer?

 

[Pulkit]

This EW suite was fitted with DRFM based jamer. Do you know what DRFM based Ew suit is all about? Do you know whether the rejected DARIN suite also had such a DRFM based jamer?

buddy please elaborate I want to know please.

By the way congrats.

Finally our dream came to reality.

Tejas Part of Indian Airforce ....

 

[karn]

This EW suite was fitted with DRFM based jamer. Do you know what DRFM based Ew suit is all about? Do you know whether the rejected DARIN suite also had such a DRFM based jamer?

Im not sure if your question is rhetorical but I'll explain what a DRFM is .. It basically takes in any radio waves that are hitting the aircraft analyses it and then creates noise in that frequency/phase and sends it back at the transmitter in effect blinding it . There are ways to counter it ofcourse especially with AESA radars that continuously shift their frequency . So it becomes an race as to who has the more powerful processor . If the DRFM cannot keep up with the radar the attacker wins .
DRFMs are also used to jam communications . You may know that all encrypted communication happens with frequency hopping radios . I remember studying about "smart" jammers that basically do the same thing, they analyse the spectrum and send a matching jamming system . This caused the development of fast frequency hopping systems ... you know arms race and all that ..
Sometimes jamming is desirable for example this funda is the basis of the CDMA technology used on your everyday mobile phone . Unwanted signals that come to your phone is rejected (only people that dialed your number get connected to your phone). 3G means CDMA (all these methods use a "spreading code" or pseudocode to mask the signal . If the receiver does not have the code it thinks that it is only detecting noise) .
I cannot find the Darin III article but the jammer used on Mig 29UPG..
ELT/568 ..
The self defence suit is not only being integrated on the Tejas but the suit itself is being tested . I would not expect anything for atleast 18 months to 2 years . If it is not satisfactory I suspect that the ELT 568 will be put on all tejas in the future ..
Offtopic : DFRMs are also what make the Akash and KUB missles used by India utterly obsolete .
Also the blog post is wrong both the Mig 29UPG and SU 30MKIs have DRFM jammers already . Tejas will not be the first to have it .Mirage probably has one but I don't know much about that.

 

[karn]

As for the rest of it the the Radio warning receiver and the missile approach system is probably from Saabtech .
After all it is on the Dhruv , Heck they use the Dhruv on their website.
IDAS Integrated DAS

Platforms where systems/components have been installed: Oryx, Puma, Cougar/Super Puma, Rooivalk, A109, Super Lynx 300, Dhruv, Chinook, Hawk, C-130, C-130H, Su-30, NH-90, MI 17, Embraer 120, Gripen, Saab 2000 & ERIEYE, Dash-8, Tornado.

Systems used by India in bold . The DRDO suit is directly competing with this .
Edit: Damn I totally missed it the front cover is that of the lCH dropping flares ...

 

[Lions Of Punjab]

Tejas lacks the teeth IAF needs - The Times of India

NO EW ON SUKHOI SU-30 - MIRAGE-2000 COULDN'T CARRY WEAPONS: BIASED IAF STILL ACCEPTED THE AIRCRAFT: WHY NOT LCA

IAF now wants Russian Gun, Upgraded Software, LR missiles and Mid-Air refueling capability .

Bengaluru: There was joy at HAL and ADA on Saturday with the LCA Tejas being finally handed over to the IAF after decades of hard work. But is it the mean machine the IAF is looking for as its struggles with outdated aircraft, depleting squadron strength and India losing its air-power edge to its neighbours?

The first series production LCA may have been handed over, but IAF is pushing Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) and HAL to make it more combat-worthy. It wants four main additions -- a Russian gun, upgraded software, long-range missiles and mid-air refueling capability. Their absence will affect the IAF's operations and a final clearance will be elusive. An advanced electronic warfare suite is also a requirement. "The LCA has already been built, and to meet these requirements, we have to disrupt the structure. But work is on, the gun has been integrated with a prototype and accommodation of refueling is on. The other things will also be ready," ADA chief PS Subramanya told TOI.

Kota Harinarayana, called the Father of the LCA, said: "The aircraft is combat-ready. They should begin using it, understand the platform and then upgradations can be made." He said, "The Su-30 platform, four times the size of LCA, isn't equipped with electronic warfare. Have we stopped using it? When India purchased the Mirage-2000 series, the plane couldn't carry any weapons. Why did we buy it?" The IAF continues to push HAL and ADA for the changes before the final clearance is granted. The IAF's discontent with the project has been apparent over the years which saw the aircraft having to get a second Initial Operation Clearance while the Final Operation Clearance is still elusive. Subramanya said not all of the first 20 of 40 aircraft to be delivered to IAF will lack these. "The first 20 will be in the IOC configuration but we're making sure that 35 meet FOC standards. All these requirements will be met from let's say the fifth series production aircraft," he said. The IAF though will not settle for anything less.

 

[Lions Of Punjab]

yellow journalism & vested interests in the indian defence sector

towing the line of a biased and import loving iaf & indian army (there is so much money to be made in imports), defence journalists in the country have time and again mocked at several indigenous weapons development efforts by drdo, ordinance factory board, hal and others. A case in point are two state-of-the-art weapon systems developed by drdo that has borne the maximum brunt from slanted journalists, the arjun main battle tank (mbt) and the lca tejas fighter.


Light combat aircraft - tejas

the story of tejas, is the one of development and maturity of combat aircraft technologies in india. The tejas program had the twin objectives of designing and developing a state-of-the-art combat aircraft for the indian air force besides bridging the technology gap of many decades in the process. The tejas is a pure delta wing configuration, with no tail-planes or fore-planes, and a single dorsal fin. It integrates technologies such as relaxed static stability, fly-by-wire flight control system, composite material structures, and a flat rated engine. Accordingly, the critical fourth plus generation of technologies were identified and demonstrated such as quadruplex digital fly-by-wire control system, all glass cockpit, composite structure and microprocessor based monitoring and control systems. The fighter aircraft has undergone improvements in terms of its angle of attack and weapons delivery and has been tested for operation in different weather conditions.

The lca is one of the most prestigious projects of drdo and ada being the lead agency who develops and integrates technologies for the fighter aircraft. The lca project though conceptualized in 1983 was actually initiated as a pursuable project in 1990. Design of lca was completed as a tail-less compound delta winged relaxed static stability aircraft. Phase i (technology demonstrator) of the development was commenced to create the proof of concept. It was only in april 1993 that the full funding was approved and development work for phase 1 was started in june 1993 and in 1995 the first technology demonstrator, td-1, rolled out in november.

Contrary to this fact, almost defence journalists harp on a 32 year long development time frame whereas the actual time taken to reach its current stage is just over 2 decades, a very reasonable period considering the fact that most fighter aircraft development around the glove takes an average of around 15 years to fructify this is true even in developed economies. All it requires is to simply verify the data which is available in the public domain before reporting such flubs.

Sadly, it is a well known fact that some these fishy journalists are on the payroll of politicians, senior bureaucrats, shady middlemen or foreign government agencies. Their job is to undermine and demoralize the indian defence manufacturing industry by disseminating fraudulent information, thereby paving the way for foreign companies to sell their wares. The government has to take note of this and establish stringent regulations to monitor and preclude such nefarious activities.

 

[karn]

Tejas lacks the teeth IAF needs - The Times of India

NO EW ON SUKHOI SU-30 - MIRAGE-2000 COULDN'T CARRY WEAPONS: BIASED IAF STILL ACCEPTED THE AIRCRAFT: WHY NOT LCA


IAF now wants Russian Gun, Upgraded Software, LR missiles and Mid-Air refueling capability .

Bengaluru: There was joy at HAL and ADA on Saturday with the LCA Tejas being finally handed over to the IAF after decades of hard work. But is it the mean machine the IAF is looking for as its struggles with outdated aircraft, depleting squadron strength and India losing its air-power edge to its neighbours?

The first series production LCA may have been handed over, but IAF is pushing Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) and HAL to make it more combat-worthy. It wants four main additions -- a Russian gun, upgraded software, long-range missiles and mid-air refueling capability. Their absence will affect the IAF's operations and a final clearance will be elusive. An advanced electronic warfare suite is also a requirement. "The LCA has already been built, and to meet these requirements, we have to disrupt the structure. But work is on, the gun has been integrated with a prototype and accommodation of refueling is on. The other things will also be ready," ADA chief PS Subramanya told TOI.

Kota Harinarayana, called the Father of the LCA, said: "The aircraft is combat-ready. They should begin using it, understand the platform and then upgradations can be made." He said, "The Su-30 platform, four times the size of LCA, isn't equipped with electronic warfare. Have we stopped using it? When India purchased the Mirage-2000 series, the plane couldn't carry any weapons. Why did we buy it?" The IAF continues to push HAL and ADA for the changes before the final clearance is granted. The IAF's discontent with the project has been apparent over the years which saw the aircraft having to get a second Initial Operation Clearance while the Final Operation Clearance is still elusive. Subramanya said not all of the first 20 of 40 aircraft to be delivered to IAF will lack these. "The first 20 will be in the IOC configuration but we're making sure that 35 meet FOC standards. All these requirements will be met from let's say the fifth series production aircraft," he said. The IAF though will not settle for anything less.

Yea sorry I call bullshit on this . Every aircraft is expected to have a gun . What do you mean "now" they want a Russian gun. . A gun was always part of the requirements . Mid air refueling and long range missiles are not new either
SU 30 has electronic countermeasures . If he meant that the SU 30 did not have counter measures when it was first inducted .. well no shit , the SU 30 MK were imported and Israeli and french components were qualified on the aircraft only then did it become the combat worthy SU 30 MKI .After that the SU 30 MKs were sent back to Russia .The IAF had Su 30s during Kargil and not one went near the fighting because it was not ready . The tejas is hardly an exception to this rule.

 

[power_monger]

Offtopic : DFRMs are also what make the Akash and KUB missles used by India utterly obsolete .

Akash missile system has a very good ECCM(Electronic counter measure) system which can prevent Jamming the signals to the missile. Even the highly advanced AESA radars will have tough time to defend itself against more powerful ground based radars. AESA radars on fighter jets will be highly usefull agains preventing its detection from enemy fighter radars but it would struggle against more powerfull ground radars. So i dis-agree with you when you say Akash missiles can be blinded by fighters AESA Radars.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Lets not mix up everything else in this thread ..

Akash is not KUB but that is another discussion ..

Lets stick to what this thread is all about ..

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Easy on language, It does not make it nice to read ..

The funny thing about this is All aircraft are meant to be in FOC config when it archives, Including the onces handed to IAF now, Old birds will be re-equipped have FOC config ..

This is something common in all nation who makes their own Fighters ..

Yea sorry I call bullshit on this . Every aircraft is expected to have a gun . What do you mean "now" they want a Russian gun. . A gun was always part of the requirements . Mid air refueling and long range missiles are not new either
SU 30 has electronic countermeasures . If he meant that the SU 30 did not have counter measures when it was first inducted .. well no shit , the SU 30 MK were imported and Israeli and french components were qualified on the aircraft only then did it become the combat worthy SU 30 MKI .After that the SU 30 MKs were sent back to Russia .The IAF had Su 30s during Kargil and not one went near the fighting because it was not ready . The tejas is hardly an exception to this rule.