ADA Tejas (LCA) News and Discussions

[sgarg]

I have used the word "drop in replacement". This word means something. This means that very minimal changes are required to fit F414 in place of F404.

I think this is what Dr Saraswat meant.

Mark II adds a number of features in addition to change of engine.

I am very confident that Mark II can be completed in 5 years time if the program retains focus and funding. Yes testing takes time but a lot of engineering has already happened.

I hope that answers Pulkit.

 

[Punya Pratap]

Weekend Wishful thinking >>>>>>> A twin GE 414 powered fighter plane with a meter longer fuselage and 2 feet wider wing span than the present MK 1 (especially NLCA looks soo stunted) To be dubbed MK 3 and carrier capable with 3 wet and 9 hardpoints 85 % composite (stealth profile) Twin seat config with at least 1200 kms useful combat radius. That shall sort out the MMRCA and that is why the Imported Arm Chair Air Marshals are soo adamant to kill the Tejas coz they know if Mk 1 & Mk 2 succeed MMRCA configs can be met with the evolution of Tejas (Mk 3) locally instead of importing it from the French etc.

Mk 3 will be a natural evolution if only our Air force starts backing Tejas!!

 

[Pulkit]

I have used the word "drop in replacement". This word means something. This means that very minimal changes are required to fit F414 in place of F404.

I think this is what Dr Saraswat meant.

Mark II adds a number of features in addition to change of engine.

I am very confident that Mark II can be completed in 5 years time if the program retains focus and funding. Yes testing takes time but a lot of engineering has already happened.

I hope that answers Pulkit.

I again repeat please understand when it comes to aero minimal changes are huge changes .
The want to improve composite %
They want to fit more powerful engine

Time span is not the issue its just that they will retested with new prototypes.

We are praying it gets completed by 2018-2019.

So i dont understand what was your answer.

plz reply with quote.

 

[Pulkit]

Sir, first of all we don't know and even HAL also don't know which GE F-414 engine they gonna fit on mk2 aircrafts.

There are total four types of GE F-414 engines.

1) F414-GE-INS6

2) F - 414 Enhanced Durability Engine (EDE)

3) F - 414 Enhanced Performance Engine (EPE)

4) All new light weight GE- F-414 engine for Super Hornet Block 3 as part of "International Roadmap".


Second, GE F-404 and GE F- 414, they both are different variants of the same product line.

There will be some changes in them as there output are different. But still their overall size, dimension remain same and dry weight of F - 414 will be more (say....... xyz < 100 kg).

As GE 414 has better thrust, mk2's airframe has to be strong enough. But for that matter HAL have to re design entire new aircraft as mk2......?

I don't think so. But then you can correct me too.

As per The F414 Engine | Engines | Military | GE Aviation

ADA is looking at INS6 for MK2.

Sir in aero change in mm even have huge impact.
I have said there will be alot of structural changes made to accomodate new engine.
Even u r on similar lines.

its entire aircraft only.
Apart from engine fuselage they want to improve composite % too

 

[sgarg]

I again repeat please understand when it comes to aero minimal changes are huge changes .
The want to improve composite %
They want to fit more powerful engine

Time span is not the issue its just that they will retested with new prototypes.

We are praying it gets completed by 2018-2019.

So i dont understand what was your answer.

plz reply with quote.

Are you an aeronautical engineer?
What makes you an expert on fighter planes?
I am sorry but none of your contentions holds ground.

The F414 engine is NOT an issue, period. It does not require a redesign of air-frame.

The length increase is for increasing avionics space and internal fuel.

 

[Pulkit]

Are you an aeronautical engineer?
What makes you an expert on fighter planes?
I am sorry but none of your contentions holds ground.

The F414 engine is NOT an issue, period. It does not require a redesign of air-frame.

The length increase is for increasing avionics space and internal fuel.

I worked for a Aircraft manufacturing company for over three and a half years.
That gives me little knowledge about aircraft and its structures.

I am a mechanical engineer worked in Aerspace
I have worked to design frames and stringers so i know what impacts are made.
I am no expert but I have experience in designing an aircraft( 1 military, 2 commercial)

The F414 engine. is NOT an issue yes true, but that doesnot mean that fitting it didnt lead to major design/structural changes .

I repeat ur questions for you:
Are you an aeronautical engineer??
What makes you an expert on fighter planes??

 

[Kunal Biswas]

What Pulkit said is not false, He is correct in his own grounds which is very basic,Every nut and bolt and smaller instrument make large differences to the whole system ..

At Technical level this matters but considering other things in the whole system, with respect to the former system, the statement given by Ex-DRDO chief is also correct in its own ground ..

I am sorry but none of your contentions holds ground..

I worked for a Aircraft manufacturing company for over three and a half years.That gives me little knowledge about aircraft and its structures.The F414 engine. is NOT an issue yes true, but that doesnot mean that fitting it didnt lead to major design/structural changes .

 

[rahulrds1]

Suvarna Raju is new HAL chairman

T. Suvarna Raju Saturday took over as the 17th chairman of the state-run Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL), following his predecessor R.K. Tyagi's retirement.

"My priorities will be on operational excellence, building the company as a technology powerhouse and creating a knowledge organisation," Mr. Raju said in a statement after assuming charge here.

Mr. Raju, director for design and development in the Rs.15,000-crore ($2.5 billion) defence behemoth, was selected from among five contenders to succeed Tyagi by the Public Enterprises Selection Board Sep 16 in New Delhi.

Mr. Raju, who has the distinction of being granted the first patent in the company in 2002, has applied for a whopping 1,000 patents during the last two years.

"My goal will be to align the company with the government's 'Make in India' endeavour though it's a challenging task in aerospace".

"I believe the best of technologies can never be bought, but can only be developed," Mr. Raju said.

Hailing from a village in West Godavari district in coastal Andhra Pradesh, Mr. Raju joined HAL in June 1980 as management trainee after graduating from IIT in Chennai.

He has master's degrees in business administration and in defence and strategic studies.

Mr. Raju, who drafted the company's first research and development (R&D) policy, spearheaded the country's self-reliance in producing 25 kN (kilo Newton) turbofan engines.

"Under Raju's leadership, the company initiated several R&D programmes covering Light Combat Aircraft (LCA), Intermediate Jet Trainer (IJT), Light Utility Helicopter (LUH), Light Combat Helicopter (LCH), HTT-40 trainer, Jaguar Darin-III and Mirage upgrade," the statement said.

Mr. Raju was also instrumental in setting up a production line for rolling out advanced jet trainer (AJT) Hawk under licence from Britain's BAE Systems for Indian Air Force (IAF) fighter pilots.

Mr. Raju is also the first member-secretary of the design development management board in the defence ministry and member-secretary of the national aeronautics coordination group.

source : Suvarna Raju is new HAL chairman - The Hindu

 

[Kunal Biswas]

We can see all the pawns are getting in place, Good moves ..

 

[Anony86]

I beg to differ .
The change in Engine leads to change in structure in short everything.

The dimensional difference leads to the space taken up by the engine.
The difference in weight leads to change in load carrying ability of the parts.
Change in power leads to more rigid frame.

As per my knowledge it will be having larger fuselage which means more empty space that leads to variable centre of gravity (consumption of fuel).

So with that it leads to in one way or the other change in almost everything.

What we learn from MK1 is the steps taken to rectify to meet requirements which can be kept in mind while building MK2 for faster clearances.

In any major structural change only fuselage will be lengthen by 0.5m- 0.6m and nothing else as air intake of Tejas was initially designed for Kaveri which would have require higher air inflow and thus there is no need to redisgn air intake and rest of the structure will remain the same.

The increase in fuselage will result in decrease in drag as well as increase in internal fuel capacity. The composite content will increase from current 45% by weight in Tejas mk1 to 65% to 70% by weight in Tejas mk2. This will help in reducing the empty weight of Tejas mk2 but again addition of internal ECCM capability will again more or less nullify this weigh advantage and I personally think the empty weight of Tejas mk2 to more or less be same that of Tejas mk1.

 

[sgarg]

I worked for a Aircraft manufacturing company for over three and a half years.
That gives me little knowledge about aircraft and its structures.

I am a mechanical engineer worked in Aerspace
I have worked to design frames and stringers so i know what impacts are made.
I am no expert but I have experience in designing an aircraft( 1 military, 2 commercial)

The F414 engine. is NOT an issue yes true, but that doesnot mean that fitting it didnt lead to major design/structural changes .

I repeat ur questions for you:
Are you an aeronautical engineer??
What makes you an expert on fighter planes??

I am an engineer though not aeronautical.

It suffices to say that the current airframe can handle F414 engine. There is no need to discuss this issue any further.

 

[HAL_neighbourhood]

I am an engineer though not aeronautical.

It suffices to say that the current airframe can handle F414 engine. There is no need to discuss this issue any further.

My first post here, unfortunately not related to the core topic. I think sgarg is being a pushover. Why this high handed behavior? Pulkit has been civil and has given enough valid explanations.

Sorry, tried tagging but could not.

 

[Pulkit]

In any major structural change only fuselage will be lengthen by 0.5m- 0.6m and nothing else as air intake of Tejas was initially designed for Kaveri which would have require higher air inflow and thus there is no need to redisgn air intake and rest of the structure will remain the same.

The increase in fuselage will result in decrease in drag as well as increase in internal fuel capacity. The composite content will increase from current 45% by weight in Tejas mk1 to 65% to 70% by weight in Tejas mk2. This will help in reducing the empty weight of Tejas mk2 but again addition of internal ECCM capability will again more or less nullify this weigh advantage and I personally think the empty weight of Tejas mk2 to more or less be same that of Tejas mk1.

What you are saying is true ....
This is known to me what is your point here....?

 

[Pulkit]

I am an engineer though not aeronautical.

It suffices to say that the current airframe can handle F414 engine. There is no need to discuss this issue any further.

Okay as you wish.

So in short you are saying in Tejas MK1 we can use F414...
Wao....

If thats true it will be news for me.

Anything to back it up?

 

[Kunal Biswas]

@Pulkit, If you may then you can compare specs of Kaveri and F414, Of course their will be modifications and comparison will bring light into discussion ..

Also Regarding MK2, The reason that few inches of airframe is increased in length was said due to new engine ..

Okay as you wish.

So in short you are saying in Tejas MK1 we can use F414...
Wao....

If thats true it will be news for me.

Anything to back it up?

 

[Anony86]

What you are saying is true ....
This is known to me what is your point here....?

I just wanna say that Tejas mk2 is more of an avionics upgrade over Tejas mk1, in addition to more powerful engine and most of the flight test will be centered around testing these two parameters and not in testing that whether Tejas mk2 is air worthy (flight certification). Because structural changes are very minimal.

 

[PaliwalWarrior]

We can see all the pawns are getting in place, Good moves ..

pl elaborate

 

[PaliwalWarrior]

what will be the weapons for Mk2 / Mk1 ?

Aastra
Air launched version of NAG / Helina with 10- 12-15 km range ?
Glide Bomb
R73
R77

 

[Pulkit]

@Pulkit, If you may then you can compare specs of Kaveri and F414, Of course their will be modifications and comparison will bring light into discussion ..

Also Regarding MK2, The reason that few inches of airframe is increased in length was said due to new engine ..

Sorry Kunal but Specs of Kaveri available are how reliable I am unaware , but surely I will do the needful .

And your second statement is it a question/comment?

 

[Pulkit]

I just wanna say that Tejas mk2 is more of an avionics upgrade over Tejas mk1, in addition to more powerful engine and most of the flight test will be centered around testing these two parameters and not in testing that whether Tejas mk2 is air worthy (flight certification). Because structural changes are very minimal.

Please elaborate the Term "Minimal".....
And please go through my comments once and respond.