Chengdu J-10 'Vigorous Dragon'

[LurkerBaba]

1st batch of J-10Bs will use Russian engines (Twitter)

 

[shiphone]

the August 1st Aerobatic team of PLAAF owns 12 J10AY and J10SY in total

these pix taken on Aug 26 2012:

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the rumor of the first batch of J10B with AL31FN came from the following pix...actually ,it is the first Prototype of J10B (1031 jet) returned to the factory for overhaul...so we don't know if the production begins

 

[p2prada]

@Shiphone

I noticed the J-10s loaded weight is given as 13 tons. I don't understand how that works out.

Well I did notice the fuel capacity on the J-10 is significantly large at 4.5 tons. But the loaded weight only takes 3.25 tons of fuel(at the F-16's level) compared to full fuel load on other aircraft like F-16(3.1t), EF-2000(5t) and Rafale(4.5t). The LCA too takes 2.4 tons for fuel and half a ton for AAMs as combat load.

The Americans take combat load at 100% fuel and over a ton of weapons for the F-15. For the Mig-29 too it is a full 3.5 tons of fuel and 1.5 tons of payload as combat load.

Comparatively, the Russians take combat load at 70% fuel for the Flankers. Similar to the J-10.

Is there some reason behind the J-10s loaded figure with 70% fuel instead of 100%? Sure you can adjust it for AAMs by reducing the fuel to 50%, but am I right in assuming the Chinese are looking at Flanker type figures for the J-10 because of the larger fuel load.

 

[shiphone]

ok, I was just thinking about this question as trying to understand that guy's view of TWR in LCA thread.

1.J10 is the first fighter project designed with American Standard and measure from the very beginning...we learn this from the Israel.

2.J10 was formally revealed in December 2006, and then we began to get the specs from the official approach... most specs on english wiki is quite old and wrong.
and I found those on the Chinese version Wiki edited already... so I listed here for your reference ...although this from wiki ,but we are sure these are quite reliable after so many year's watch except the internal fuel(I will talk about this later).

empty weight: 8840 Kgs
Normal take off weight 12400 kgs (not Load weight )
Max take off weight 19277 kgs

3.Normal Take off Weight is always used in our text book.so the load weight figure is always confusing for me...here's the PPT of some weight specs of JF17 in Dubai Airshow 2011...

this 12.4 tons NTW should be the similar to the LCA figure on ADA website: Load weight (CLEAN). means:
1.full fuel(100%)
2.no drop tanks and any other external payload.
3.ammo of guns ready

so If we are thinking about the Load Weight using the American standard...we would add following
1.2 PL12 200Kgs *2
2.2 PL8 115Kg *2
3.4.missile launcher 48kg *4
so these are around 850 Kgs

so the LOAD WEIGHT is around 13.3 tons...

4.about Internal fuel...the most suitable reference object is F16...in history, the J10 R/D team won the another J13 project team in developing tender. both projects aim the F16 specs at that time...so around 3-3.3 tons of Internal fuel might be quiet reasonable(3.1 for F16)...and I'm afraid the current J10's USABLE internal fuel is around 3 tons(less than 3.3). cos there always some fuel in oil pipeline and tank...and we got this info confirmed in a TV Interview with a Test pilot of PLAAF in 2009

so the 12.4Tone NTW including:
1.empty weigh 8840 kg
2.internal fuel 3000-3300 kg
3.other oils and ammo : around 500 kg

the J10's ferry range(internal fuel+ 4100L drop tanks) is less than F16 with similar config . because the fuel consumption efficiency of Russian engine , we also could tell the internal fuel should be at the same level. not that much like 4.5 tons .

the following is revealed by PLAAF on 60 anniversary in 2009...it's the specs of J10 and J10A

 

[p2prada]

Excellent. Thanks for the info. So, the wiki figures are wrong. Someone needs to edit it.

So, these figures go by what's already known on other fighters of this class.

 

[shiphone]

1st batch of J-10Bs will use Russian engines (Twitter)

now it's safe to say . this is correct.

==================
the manufacture of J10B serial has begun. the first one: SP1(0701 jet?) was spotted...it seems it still equips with AL31FN...

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Today .the PLAAF's August 1st aerobatics team carried out the first and only flight practice before the opening of Airshow China 2012. which attracted many shots.

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source: DSWC military forum...

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4 plane formation

 

[shiphone]

the manufacture of J10B serial has begun. the first one: SP1(0701 jet?) was spotted...it seems it still equips with AL31FN...

1 .it seems that 07 batch is still J10A ...0701,0702,0703 jets spotted...so far the J10 and J10A have been producted in 6 batchs.. around 240 single seat J10s have been made besides the Twin seater...

2. more pix of first batch J10B SPs...source 战略网

 

[Neil]

J-11 crushes J-10 in PLAAF exercise

Basically they held the largest air force mock combat exercise this year, and the results were overwhelmingly in favour of J-11. The training exercise was similar in scale to American's Red Flag. One particular J-11 pilot managed to accumulate over 42 mock kills over its J-10 opponent while only being "shot down" once. It's interesting since the results were complete reverse of just a few years ago when J-10 always manage to gain the upper hand. The past two years, units flying the J-11 has consistently outperform their opponents.


两夺金头盔 中国空战王 -观察者网 (Chinese source)


russian jets are still kicking ass i guess.....

 

[sayareakd]

so J10 is useless fighter ?

 

[Blackwater]

Chengdu J-10 'Vigorous Dragon'


Chengdu J-10 Copied Dragon

 

[shiphone]

LOL...you guys need learn some Chinese to get better understanding the chinese news...

One particular J-11 pilot managed to accumulate over 42 mock kills over its J-10 opponent while only being "shot down" once.

so called ' 42 killing ' were gained all in the simulation air combat againest other J11 units. none of them were from J10 unit or Su30 units.

-------------------------------------------
you needn't guess, I could tell you more...

1. this competion was held for the first time last year...this is the second one...few units attended the both competion .
2. in 2011. there were 5 winner(so called Golded Helmet winner... 10 in total) from two reigment(one J10 and one J11 regiment) of same Military Region(7 MR in total). among these five, three are from the same J10 Regiment. but this year, this regiment was set as imaginary enemy unit...which means they are examiners this years
3. in 2011, J10A units were the biggest winner . in 2012 .the result between the J10 with J11 is 50:50

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so funny comments from some member as usual...

 

[Apollyon]

J-10 declassified

Code One Magazine: Aviation Archeology
well to be honest i was accepting a pic with a table lamp coming in the way and from behind a barbed partition .

 

[Illusive]

J-10 declassified

Code One Magazine: Aviation Archeology
well to be honest i was accepting a pic with a table lamp coming in the way and from behind a barbed partition .

It doesn't say about J-10, the description of the pic says "An alternate configuration for the lightweight fighter dated 13 August 1971."

also a pic with similar description

An alternate twin-tail configuration for the lightweight fighter dated 6 April 1971. Note the side-hinged canopy.

So i think this was a lightweight fighter concept which americans didn't take it forward. But clearly we know were the roots of J-10 are now.

 

[shiphone]

shiphone , Do you have any good video link that should J-10 flying qualities in details , Turns , Loops etc

Video A: of 2010 中国空军八一飞行表演队 China AirForce August 1st. Aerobatic Team
[video=youtube_share;FE1b48w6AYk]http://youtu.be/FE1b48w6AYk[/video]

Video B the show of next day
[video=youtube_share;Pkj_C2FSA8E]http://youtu.be/Pkj_C2FSA8E[/video]

a video of 2008 ...Pilot was from a combat unit...

 

[shiphone]

@Austin...above three videos were taken by a Japanese Airshow fan on AirshowChina 2010 and 2008..

here's another two videos taken on Airshow China 2008 by Chinese enthusiasts...a little out of focus ...LOL
IAF Sūrya Kiraṇ Aerobatic Team also attended this show and won loads of applause from the Chinese audience...officers from IAF have a close observation of J10's first public show along with many chinese...

[video=youtube_share;zoQK8JgFC8A]http://youtu.be/zoQK8JgFC8A[/video]
[video=youtube_share;EXWWavj9UmY]http://youtu.be/EXWWavj9UmY[/video]

 

[Austin]

@shiphone , Thank You for Sharing the J-10 videos , Any recent video will be welcome .........Any officical source showing growth path for J-10 ?

 

[p2prada]

I am interested in that too. The growth path. It seems to be restricted by the engine. But if the WS-10 works out, then who knows.

 

[gokussj9]

I am interested in that too. The growth path. It seems to be restricted by the engine. But if the WS-10 works out, then who knows.

Shouldn't WS-13 be ready before WS-10?

 

[SilentKiller]

@Austin...above three videos were taken by a Japanese Airshow fan on AirshowChina 2010 and 2008..

here's another two videos taken on Airshow China 2008 by Chinese enthusiasts...a little out of focus ...LOL
IAF Sūrya Kiraṇ Aerobatic Team also attended this show and won loads of applause from the Chinese audience...officers from IAF have a close observation of J10's first public show along with many chinese...

[video=youtube_share;zoQK8JgFC8A]http://youtu.be/zoQK8JgFC8A[/video]
[video=youtube_share;EXWWavj9UmY]http://youtu.be/EXWWavj9UmY[/video]

I love Chinese people until unless they let others live with peace...
anyhow, best of luck for your fighter plane and please don't sell it to terrorists.

If u are getting power, use it properly otherwise u will fall same way as others hungry empires fell.

 

[p2prada]

Shouldn't WS-13 be ready before WS-10?

Depends on how much support it gets either from PAF or any other major export customer. But WS-13 is a 90-100KN class engine. WS-10 is a 120+ KN engine.