Small arms and Light Weapons

[WARREN SS]

SSS defence has fielded their assault rifle P72, they aren't pitching for it very hard contrary to their sniper maybe because they have are more confident about the sniper capability.

Here is the P72

View attachment 49657

The deisgn is very much like magpul and Scar series. Rail for attachments above corner and below.

The biggest improvement over Ak series is the full length picattiny rail.
Now depending upon how it operates, if DIS it can replace AK 47 and if Short stoke it cam fill the gap of AR-15 like platform. Rotating bolt will be a cheery on top.

The modular butt stock will allow proper handling from a Jat to Gurkha soldier.

Here is VK singh with the rifles he is 5'6

View attachment 49660

If they work on it right they can provide a low cost Scar like platform.

The rifle size in perspective, I think this is the DMR derivative.


View attachment 49661


Below is the Carbine in the left and AR at the right. Notice the grip attached on the AR.
They make their own attachments.

View attachment 49662

Different angle of the AR

View attachment 49663

View attachment 49664

View attachment 49665


At the very least these guys deserve a Trial.

It Better To give SIG 716 g2 a go ahead With Licence Production in india We already bought 73000
Why create logistic Nightmare for troops

And Ghatak for non infantry units

 

[piKacHHu]

It Better To go give SIG 716 g2 a go With Licence Production i india We already bought 73000
Why create logistic Nightmare for troops

And Ghatak for non infantry units

That is quite a reasonable deal; At $900-990 for a .308 Battle rifle from a reputed manufacturer like SIG is a real sweetheart deal. I feel the aggressive bidding by SIG has disrupted the apple cart for other vendors including Kalashnikov Concern. The AK-203 deal is going downhill on pricing issue. But I doubt when it comes to manufacturing in India, it will going to cost more as the SIG will try to spread out its capital investment for new assembly plant in India.
As a matter of fact, on Chinese front the SIG 716i will be more effective given the topology of the land (similar to Afghanistan ) & to match the Chinese who are equipped with 5.8x42mm which is better than 5.56x45 round.

Possible way ahead could be:
1. Equip front line troop with SIG 716 (2-3 lakhs)
2. Cancel AK 203 deal; Instead adopt local solution like P72
3. Adopt a new DMR like SSS Viper for SVD replacement
4. CAR 816/ SIG MCX for Sterling replacement; could be licensed produced domestically
5. Disband OFB & their junk ammunition plant; redeploy their manpower for MNREGA works where their incompetency doesn't claim soldier's life.

 

[Suryavanshi]

It Better To give SIG 716 g2 a go ahead With Licence Production in india We already bought 73000
Why create logistic Nightmare for troops

And Ghatak for non infantry units

Are warren bhaiya ye kaisi bate kar rahe ho?

License production of Sig and then what. Shelf life if rifles is no more than 10 to 15 years. Do we send rifle back to America for upgardes or trust or incompetent OFB chaps?
Like INSAS Sig won't have any decent upgrades after it's shelf life is over.
Sig production will be good for short term but very bad for Long term.
While me might struggle initially with SSS but we will improve in the long run.

Who knows if we give them the chance SSS defence might be the next Sig.

 

[Blue Water Navy]

That is quite a reasonable deal; At $900-990 for a .308 Battle rifle from a reputed manufacturer like SIG is a real sweetheart deal. I feel the aggressive bidding by SIG has disrupted the apple cart for other vendors including Kalashnikov Concern. The AK-203 deal is going downhill on pricing issue. But I doubt when it comes to manufacturing in India, it will going to cost more as the SIG will try to spread out its capital investment for new assembly plant in India.
Nevertheless, on Chinese front the SIG 716i will be more effective given the topology of the land (similar to Afghanistan ) & to match the Chinese who are equipped with 5.8x42mm which is better than 5.56x45 round. Possible way ahead could be:

1. Equip front line troop with SIG 716 (2-3 lakhs)
2. Cancel AK 203 deal; Instead adopt local solution like P72
3. Adopt a new DMR like SSS Viper for SVD replacement
4. CAR 816/ SIG MCX for Sterling replacement; could be licensed produced domestically
5. Disband OFB & their junk ammunition plant; redeploy their manpower for MNREGA works where their incompetency doesn't claim soldier's life.

I was never in favor of ak 203. Yet I hear in this forum that we need a lot of guns from normal soldiers to the guard at the front gate of any army base. So, we need the ak203.

Yeah, sure money is the factor so if we try to replace all the insas with sig and caracal then it will take say 2-3 years more than usual. I say why not? The soldier at the front gate isn't going to war.

 

[piKacHHu]

I was never in favor of ak 203. Yet I hear in this forum that we need a lot of guns from normal soldiers to the guard at the front gate of any army base. So, we need the ak203.

Yeah, sure money is the factor so if we try to replace all the insas with sig and caracal then it will take say 2-3 years more than usual. I say why not? The soldier at the front gate isn't going to war.

This is the classic example of short term vision or lack of vision. On one hand, Rawat sahab is lecturing on improving teeth-to- tail ratio on the other hand he's segregating troops as Front-line or Non-Front line troops. In this case, Non-Front line troops can be given inferior rifle like AK-203 which ironically is more expensive than SIG 716 used by the front line troops.

 

[WARREN SS]

License production of Sig and then what. Shelf life if rifles is no more than 10 to 15 years. Do we send rifle back to America for upgardes or trust or incompetent OFB chaps?

Who told you Contract Will go to OFB
are Jab 73000 Leli toh baki aur lelo

Who knows if we give them the chance SSS defence might be the next Sig.

What is the reliability Of SSS defense
Are u Sure A New Player Should get Contract of 4,00,000 units
Without reliable Manufacturing Background Not SIG Or IAI

wo 499 waale Phone ka offer yaad hai
India are good at scamming

 

[Suryavanshi]

India current need of firearms.

2.2 million handguns for police force all across the state.

An universal gun like AK 47 that can serve from Desert of Rajasthan to Snowy mountains of Siachen.
Approx 2 million in numbers.

A good carbine for sate police force that can unload a lot of rounds quickly.
A good 1 million of these are needed from Army QRT to state police to CRPF.

A good DMR for LAC and BSF approx 300,000 in number.

Sniper rifle.
Anti materiel rifle.
And the list goes on.

 

[Blue Water Navy]

This is the classic example of short term vision or lack of vision. On one hand, Rawat sahab is lecturing on improving teeth-to- tail ratio on the other hand he's segregating troops as Front-line or Non-Front line troops. In this case, Non-Front line troops can be given inferior rifle like AK-203 which ironically is more expensive than SIG 716 used by the front line troops.

Russia has set the price at $1200 per rifle. I heard it in the news. And Modi govt I am assuming that, wants the rifle under $1000 as sig is costing around $850-900.

 

[piKacHHu]

Russia has set the price at $1200 per rifle. I heard it in the news. And Modi govt I am assuming that, wants the rifle under $1000 as sig is costing around $850-900.

The whole idea of purchasing AK 203 is beyond comprehension when you have OFB making AK clones like TAR or GHATAK. Of course, questions will be raised about high procurement cost of AK 203 when OFB is producing similar product sans picattiny rails may be at much lower cost.
Had it been SIG in place of AK 203, it would have been lot easier to justify its local production as OFB hasn't produced any DI based .308 battle rifle so far.

 

[Blue Water Navy]

The whole idea of purchasing AK 203 is beyond comprehension when you have OFB making AK clones like TAR or GHATAK. Of course, questions will be raised about high procurement cost of AK 203 when OFB is producing similar product sans picattiny rails may be at much lower cost.
Had it been SIG in place of AK 203, it would have been lot easier to justify its local production as OFB hasn't produced any DI based .308 battle rifle so far.

We know the weirdest part. Ak 203 is a completely different platform than AR. If the soldiers are going to fight with AR rifles (as the main battle rifle & carbine are AR) then why not just choose a low cost variant of AR rifle. I am sure there are plenty of companies in the US who will want to collaborate with any Indian private or Govt firm just to catch the Indian arms market.

 

[Blue Water Navy]

Even caracals car 816 is costing $940 to India then why buy an AR for $1200?!

 

[WARREN SS]

Why don't the army test their guns and then if they pass place and order of 100,000 guns.
After employing them in Kashmir army gives them a feedback and then they further improve on the design.

Their guns can't be as bad as the INSAS can they be?
I'm not saying place the order of 4 million immediately but do that over a time of 5 years.

On what basis Do they have Prior Manufacturing record To deliver Such order

Sorry I Will rely on OFB on than some New time Wonder SSS defence
until they have Some Serious Goodwill in market

We didn't produce a jet for 70 years and then we fielded LCA what manufacturing background did we have other than screw driver giri?

HAL has Producing jets Since 50 years
You can question there Work ethics not there Experience and Good Will in market

they rank 38 globally

Apke jaise log hi talent ka gaand mar dete he.
Aur fir dunuiya bhar me small arms ke liye bhi lannd chathe firte he.

Strategic Security is Not Experiment ground For Some New Player in Market

 

[piKacHHu]

Even caracals car 816 is costing $940 to India then why buy an AR for $1200?!

AFAIK, in Sandeep Unnithan article, it was quoted around $1000-1100 range, that deal is still in limbo even though it was categorized as Fast Track Procurement (FTP).

Now, since SIG has breached the Indian market; more American companies will follow the suit after seeing huge demand in IA for 10-15 years horizon.

 

[Blue Water Navy]

AFAIK, in Sandeep Unnithan article, it was quoted around $1000-1100 range, that deal is still in limbo even though it was categorized as Fast Track Procurement (FTP).

Now, since SIG has breached the Indian market; more American companies will follow the suit after seeing huge demand in IA for 10-15 years horizon.

I heard the price in India TV, maybe I am wrong or maybe the price is lowered because of bulk purchase & also the scheme of make in India is involved. Anyway, even if its $1 less still any reasonable person will choose AR.

 

[Chinmoy]

SSS defence has fielded their assault rifle P72, they aren't pitching for it very hard contrary to their sniper maybe because they have are more confident about the sniper capability.

Here is the P72

View attachment 49657

The deisgn is very much like magpul and Scar series. Rail for attachments above corner and below.

The biggest improvement over Ak series is the full length picattiny rail.
Now depending upon how it operates, if DIS it can replace AK 47 and if Short stoke it cam fill the gap of AR-15 like platform. Rotating bolt will be a cheery on top.

The modular butt stock will allow proper handling from a Jat to Gurkha soldier.

Here is VK singh with the rifles he is 5'6

View attachment 49660

If they work on it right they can provide a low cost Scar like platform.

The rifle size in perspective, I think this is the DMR derivative.


View attachment 49661


Below is the Carbine in the left and AR at the right. Notice the grip attached on the AR.
They make their own attachments.

View attachment 49662

Different angle of the AR

View attachment 49663

View attachment 49664

View attachment 49665


At the very least these guys deserve a Trial.

I'd just request them to just make a variant with conventional fixed butt stock. That way it would garner more interest in home market.

 

[Akula]

 

[Blue Water Navy]

What gun is that?? The second one??

 

[Akula]

What gun is that?? The second one??

Early prototype of SSS Defence P-72 gun.

 

[Raj Malhotra]

It seems SSS is now offering P72 series rifles in numerous calibers like 7.62x39, 7.62x51, 5.56x45 with different barrel lengths

It's also offering LMGs but specifications are not known.

 

[shuvo@y2k10]

What is SBR and RECR?