Small arms and Light Weapons

[Steven Rogers]

How do you know brother?

I was at the defence expo 2020 and had a chat with the ARDE guy at the stall...

 

[FalconSlayers]

I was at the defence expo 2020 and had a chat with the ARDE guy at the stall...

You mean this is Alive?
It is a total mess now, SSS Defence wants to sell their small arms too, maybe these MCIWS rifles will be inducted in small numbers for specialised units like SFF, Ghatak or CoBRA in Particular, or maybe rejected by the army.

Because this is a good Commando weapon and good for infantry but not good for Special Forces.

It is best for Commando battalions and infantry but I have never seen them shooting rounds so I feel a bit curious how these work.

Considering these raptor, Sights are made in India as these are derived from ITL MARS. I guess this could be the standard optic with this gun.

So in Future... The Indian army be like...

If everything goes right.

Or maybe MCIWS is going to be standard for CAPFs like CRPF, BSF, ITBP, CISF as they currently use Arsenal Bulgarian AK-47s as standard weapons with INSAS, Tavor X-95, Excalibur and OFB Ghatak assault rifles, we need to focus on CAPFs equally like army, their assault rifles are world class no doubt (except INSAS). But need small arms in huge numbers with good tactical gear atleast elbow and knee pads with a good helmet and a reflex sight made in India.

MCIWS will replace INSAS for sure in CAPFs.

As Army never ordered indigenous Ghatak AK-47, means Army uninterested in OFB arms. And only CAPFs will use OFB arms.

In pic: OFB Ghatak

Indian special forces now have tonnes of world class Tier-1 level “gucci equipment” made in India.

From Tavors, to M4A1s, to MP9s, to JVPC, to Arad, to Carmel, to SIG 716i,
to AK-203, to SCAR-L, to SCAR-H and SSS AK-47 SOPMOD And tonnes of Sniper options and Israeli, American, German and Indian holographic optics and best in class thermal and night vision sights.

 

[Steven Rogers]

You mean this is Alive?
It is a total mess now, SSS Defence wants to sell their small arms too, maybe these MCIWS rifles will be inducted in small numbers for specialised units like SFF, Ghatak or CoBRA in Particular, or maybe rejected by the army.

Because this is a good Commando weapon and good for infantry but not good for Special Forces.

It is best for Commando battalions and infantry but I have never seen them shooting rounds so I feel a bit curious how these work.
View attachment 63681

Considering these raptor, Sights are made in India as these are derived from ITL MARS. I guess this could be the standard optic with this gun.

So in Future... The Indian army be like...
View attachment 63682
View attachment 63683
View attachment 63684
View attachment 63685
View attachment 63686
View attachment 63687
If everything goes right.

Or maybe MCIWS is going to be standard for CAPFs like CRPF, BSF, ITBP, CISF as they currently use Arsenal Bulgarian AK-47s as standard weapons with INSAS, Tavor X-95, Excalibur and OFB Ghatak assault rifles, we need to focus on CAPFs equally like army, their assault rifles are world class no doubt (except INSAS). But need small arms in huge numbers with good tactical gear atleast elbow and knee pads with a good helmet and a reflex sight made in India.

MCIWS will replace INSAS for sure in CAPFs.

As Army never ordered indigenous Ghatak AK-47, means Army uninterested in OFB arms. And only CAPFs will use OFB arms.

In pic: OFB Ghatak
View attachment 63688

Indian special forces now have tonnes of world class Tier-1 level “gucci equipment” made in India.

From Tavors, to M4A1s, to MP9s, to JVPC, to Arad, to Carmel, to SIG 716i,
to AK-203, to SCAR-L, to SCAR-H and SSS AK-47 SOPMOD And tonnes of Sniper options and Israeli, American, German and Indian holographic optics and best in class thermal and night vision sights.

Yes bro this is alive and is now called ARDE AR. And will only be chambered .6.8mm

 

[Lancer]

Any word on optics/attachments for our SiG's and AK's?

 

[FalconSlayers]

Yes bro this is alive and is now called ARDE AR. And will only be chambered .6.8mmView attachment 63695

IDK but this has low muzzle velocity, less than even 800m/s.
bruh but it has a better velocity than all intermediate cartridges At 400 yards, means it best for 500m range and performs better than all rounds even if 5.56 has a 930+ m/s muzzle velocity.

CHECK THIS.

 

[FalconSlayers]

Yes bro this is alive and is now called ARDE AR. And will only be chambered .6.8mmView attachment 63695

It only proves that if you think MCIWS is based on INSAS, You are wrong, it is inspired from South Korean K2 assault rifle.

K2

ARDE AR

 

[FalconSlayers]

Any word on optics/attachments for our SiG's and AK's?

BEL Holographic Sight

 

[Vishalreddy3]

 

[Vishalreddy3]

I got addict to these videos!!!
This is AK103 used by all Russian Spetsnaz units and India is getting its export variant AK 203

 

[Johny_Baba]

It only proves that if you think MCIWS is based on INSAS, You are wrong, it is inspired from South Korean K2 assault rifle.

K2
View attachment 63719

ARDE AR
View attachment 63720

View attachment 63718

While in general it's true that MCIWS//AAR has got some striking similarity to SoKorean K-2 rifle but it is still a unique design on its own and in some regards near to INSAS

for example, Trigger Group in the MCIWS//AAR is of Kalashnikov pattern one,makes me think it is taken from INSAS

Then again its working is somewhat unique (still leaning towards K-2 Rifle but still different),just have a look at this

So yeah, it's unique design in my view that's taken some elements from this weapon and major design elements from K-2 rifle maybe.

 

[Killbot]

IDK but this has low muzzle velocity, less than even 800m/s.
bruh but it has a better velocity than all intermediate cartridges At 400 yards, means it best for 500m range and performs better than all rounds even if 5.56 has a 930+ m/s muzzle velocity.

CHECK THIS.

View attachment 63717

Muzzle velocity is not the only thing you need to look at. Amount of energy being transferred in target is more important. 6.8 puts more energy on target than 5.56, and more than 7.62 NATO even at 500 yards. This is because both 5.56 and 7.62 lose energy fast. 6.5 grendel is the best in this regard.

 

[FalconSlayers]

I got addict to these videos!!!
This is AK103 used by all Russian Spetsnaz units and India is getting its export variant AK 203

If its muzzle velocity had been more than 800m/s then it would have been better.

 

[Vishalreddy3]

Muzzle velocity is not the only thing you need to look at. Amount of energy being transferred in target is more important. 6.8 puts more energy on target than 5.56, and more than 7.62 NATO even at 500 yards. This is because both 5.56 and 7.62 lose energy fast. 6.5 grendel is the best in this regard.

6.8 has more energy than 7.62 at 500 yards??? Am I missing something here??

 

[FalconSlayers]

Muzzle velocity is not the only thing you need to look at. Amount of energy being transferred in target is more important. 6.8 puts more energy on target than 5.56, and more than 7.62 NATO even at 500 yards. This is because both 5.56 and 7.62 lose energy fast. 6.5 grendel is the best in this regard.

That’s why I said 6.8mm is great in both regards, it may have a lower bullet velocity compared to 5.56 initially (doesn’t make a difference in short range) But it loses speed in a relatively slower rate than other rounds and after 400 yards 6.8mm has better muzzle velocity than 5.56 and 7.62 Russian slightly lower than 7.62 NATO.

6.8 is better than others, 5.56 has high velocity because of low bullet weight.

 

[Vishalreddy3]

That’s why I said 6.8mm is great in both regards, it may have a lower bullet velocity compared to 5.56 initially (doesn’t make a difference in short range) But it loses speed in a relatively slower rate than other rounds and after 400 yards 6.8mm has better muzzle velocity than 5.56 and 7.62 Russian slightly lower than 7.62 NATO.

6.8 is better than others, 5.56 has high velocity because of low bullet weight.

7.62 Nato has better range than 6.8.
When a bullet is a smaller calibre, it's range and endurance decreases drastically!!
The only reason some countries especially the West replacing the 7.62 round is due to weight.

 

[FalconSlayers]

7.62 Nato has better range than 6.8.
When a bullet is a smaller calibre, it's range and endurance decreases drastically!!
The only reason some countries especially the West replacing the 7.62 round is due to weight.

7.62 NATO is obviously better but is heavy, it is more like a marksman cartridge, 6.8mm is apt battle rifle cartridge.

 

[FalconSlayers]

Any news about Astr defence weapons? Idk why they don’t have any website social media account or PR considering their weapons look ultra modern.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-theme="dark"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The Astr Defence rifle INDRA is a modular platform which with some certain changes can be transformed into five different systems for different need:<br><br>1) 7.62*51 mm Battle Rifle<br>2) 7.62*51 mm SAW<br>3) 7.62*51 mm DMR<br>4) 7.62*39 mm Assault Rifle and<br>5) 5.56*45 mm Carbine <a href="https://t.co/vil1qXmatE">pic.twitter.com/vil1qXmatE</a></p>&mdash; Vinod DX9 (@VinodDX9) <a href="">June 14, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Johny_Baba]

While in general it's true that MCIWS//AAR has got some striking similarity to SoKorean K-2 rifle but it is still a unique design on its own and in some regards near to INSAS

for example, Trigger Group in the MCIWS//AAR is of Kalashnikov pattern one,makes me think it is taken from INSAS
View attachment 63780

Then again its working is somewhat unique (still leaning towards K-2 Rifle but still different),just have a look at this
View attachment 63781

So yeah, it's unique design in my view that's taken some elements from this weapon and major design elements from K-2 rifle maybe.

BTW this pattern of exposed Camming Pin + Camming Surface that too on its Ejection Port was one of those things i immensely hated about MCIWS//AAR

Like seriously WTF these are among the critical working mechanisms of a self loading rifle and they are keeping it exposed ? Forget Inrange TV Pattern Mud Tests,it won't be able to tolerate dust or sand accumulation on its bolt carrier in sandy environment of Thar

Imagine designing a firearm in 21st Century and still making such elementary mistake of not keeping working parts or mechanisms sealed and safe from outside gunk oh and yes they aren't even providing a dust cover on its ejection port so making it even worser

If you'd compare it to AR-15 ( has got dust cover and even when dust cover is open its bolt carrier is sealed enough to keep outside stuff away from working parts ) and K-2 (doesn't have dust cover but bolt carrier is sealing its ejection port well enough) this is failing in both way. I would say even AK (or INSAS) is better sealed than this design as at least bolt carrier is effectively covering its camming surfaces sealed.

 

[Killbot]

7.62 Nato has better range than 6.8.
When a bullet is a smaller calibre, it's range and endurance decreases drastically!!
The only reason some countries especially the West replacing the 7.62 round is due to weight.

No it doesn't. The 6.8 has more velocity and energy at longer distancez because of aerodynamics of the bullet. It loses much less energy due to less drag. Think of 7.62 as a rock and 6.8 as a javelin. You know which travels longer and which has more energy at closer distances...

 

[Killbot]

7.62 NATO is obviously better but is heavy, it is more like a marksman cartridge, 6.8mm is apt battle rifle cartridge.

6.8 is a better marksman cartridge than 7.62. Refer post number 2919.