Main Battle Tanks and Armour Technology

If Tanks have to evolve, which path they should follow?

  • Light Vehicles-Best for mobility

    Votes: 25 7.3%
  • Heavy Armour-Can take heavy punishment.

    Votes: 57 16.7%
  • Modular Design-Allowing dynamic adaptions.

    Votes: 198 58.1%
  • Universal Platform-Best for logistics.

    Votes: 61 17.9%

  • Total voters
    341

Damian

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Kunal Biswas

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turret ring is exposed on all tanks, this is not possible to prevent, but other zones may be eliminated.
Exposed yes, Weak point yes, Reduction of it is important..

Look at M1A2 or Leo types, Its not so exposed as T-90MS..
 

Damian

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Look at M1A2 or Leo types, Its not so exposed as T-90MS..
I think You do not know how properly look about it, on all these tanks turret ring is not so exposed.

In M1 series it is in fact not turret ring exposed but lower part of turret front armor, turret ring is placed lower behind hull turret ring collar, same in Leopard 2. In T-90MS from the pure frontal aspect situation is same, what You see is mostly lower part of turret front armor.
 

Andrei_bt

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I think You do not know how properly look about it, on all these tanks turret ring is not so exposed.

In M1 series it is in fact not turret ring exposed but lower part of turret front armor, turret ring is placed lower behind hull turret ring collar, same in Leopard 2. In T-90MS from the pure frontal aspect situation is same, what You see is mostly lower part of turret front armor.
M1 series is in fact an example of "shot traps" with it's huge gape between hull and turret required because of high motor-transmission compartments (to provide turret rotation).
 

p2prada

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All tanks have some weakness or the other. Some design limitations and some as per design as a sacrifice for other advantages. It is up to the crew how best the tank is utilized. I would hate to put an Abrams crew inside a T-90 and expect them to fight at the same level or viceversa. Heck the T-90 crew will be one short right there.

Anyway what is the probability these weak spots on the T-90 would be targeted over the more reinforced points in a tank battle? Sure a missile can, but they are a lot easier to defend against than an APFSDS round.

Even if we say a NATO design is superior to the Soviet design in certain scenarios or viceversa we know that India will be going for a new design that may lean more towards the Soviet design of 3 man crews while providing the same level of protection as a NATO MBT. We have access to both designs to complete said project and will see this implemented in due course of time.

BTW, we know the Arjun has higher levels of trap holes than the Leo A4, let alone the T-90. Hopefully a lot of this is rectified in the Mk2 or it is going to get a lot tougher implementing a new design.
 

Damian

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M1 series is in fact an example of "shot traps" with it's huge gape between hull and turret required because of high motor-transmission compartments (to provide turret rotation).
Do You ever in Your life saw how it is designed? There is no turret race ring there, it is placed lower behind hull protecting collar, while the upper part of this gap is in fact lower part of turret front armor. It is a weak zone yes, but not so drastic as some belive.

Anyway what is the probability these weak spots on the T-90 would be targeted over the more reinforced points in a tank battle? Sure a missile can, but they are a lot easier to defend against than an APFSDS round.
That place is very unlikely to hit as it is representing a very small surface, in any tank. I seen many tanks that were hit ina battle, and never I seen for example M1 hit there by APFSDS, HEAT, RPG or ATGM.

Soviet design of 3 man crews
It is not Soviet design, west was also experimenting with 3 crew members designs. Well to be honest Americans were experimenting with autoloaders in WWII period on T20 prototype series of Medium Tanks, Germans also were experimenting on autoloaders or similiar devices, however with smaller success than Americans.

while providing the same level of protection as a NATO MBT.
Frontal protection of both designing schools is similiar, side protection of western designs turrets is better in basic configuration, comparabale to eastern configuration if it have implemented ERA package, but still, also western design can have side turret reinforced by ERA or addon composite, that will provide with basic composite armor probably much higher protection levels than the opposite design.

It does not mean that one designing school is fundamentally better than another, they are just different.
 

Andrei_bt

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Do You ever in Your life saw how it is designed? There is no turret race ring there, it is placed lower behind hull protecting collar, while the upper part of this gap is in fact lower part of turret front armor. It is a weak zone yes, but not so drastic as some belive..
I will not waste my time on somebody who does not see evident things and does not have idea of what he is talking about.
 

Andrei_bt

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BTW, we know the Arjun has higher levels of trap holes than the Leo A4, let alone the T-90. Hopefully a lot of this is rectified in the Mk2 or it is going to get a lot tougher implementing a new design.
What exactly "rectified" in the Mk2?
 

p2prada

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What exactly "rectified" in the Mk2?
We don't know yet. The three biggest pieces of equipment MK2 will get would be the Iron Fist APS, a mine plough and ERA. The prototype will come out in 6 months or so they say. Don't worry we will get pictures of it in time.

Only an image is available.

 

bhramos

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Damian

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I will not waste my time on somebody who does not see evident things and does not have idea of what he is talking about.
Yes yes, for example Your evident manipulations on western tanks armor thickness estimations, even if different sources (Paul Lakowski contacts in Heer, or our own messurements on real vehicle) were showing that it is different.

There is a weak zone, yes, but not so bad as You wish to show everybody in a form of deadly shot trap directly in to traverse ring that in reality is hidden lower behind protective hull collar. There are plenty of photos or other materials proving my point, and not even single photograph showing a deadly hit in that area, it proves that probability of hit there is smaller than some people belive or want to belive.
 

p2prada

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Hopefully they will redesign turret.
Instead I see it as learning experience which will come in use when developing the FMBT. First prototype of FMBT should be done by 2017 and then there will be testing.
 

Austin

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I dont think we will go for FMBT , most likely it will be Arjun in Mark 2 and 3 models all the way.
 

p2prada

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I dont think we will go for FMBT , most likely it will be Arjun in Mark 2 and 3 models all the way.
Don't see why. The Arjun does not have reactive armour, only ceramics, it has a 4 man crew and weighs over 60 tons now. The armour can be changed with a modified turret, but the 4 man crew and weight cannot be changed.

Arjun Mk3, if it does exist and if the weight is reduced to below 50 tons with 3 man crew then that will make it a whole new tank. So, no point naming it Arjun Mk3 at all.

Let's not forget what Lt Gen Bharadwaj said, we don't need a heavy tank.

This is Ajai Shukla's article on FMBT.

DRDO to develop armys next-generation tank

So, we know something not related to Arjun is already happening.
Talking exclusively to Business Standard, DRDO chief and Scientific Advisor to the Defence Minister, Dr VK Saraswat, revealed, "While the Future Infantry Combat Vehicle (FICV) has been handed over to the private industry, the DRDO will develop the FMBT. We need about 7-8 years from the time the project is formally sanctioned. The army and the DRDO have already identified the major features of the FMBT, which are quite different from the Arjun. While the Arjun is a 60-tonne tank, the FMBT will be lighter"¦ about 50 tonnes. It will be a highly mobile tank."
BTW, noticed something from the article;
Only now, after nine years of stonewalling, has Russia transferred the technology needed to build the T-90 in India.
Hilarious right. Quite a jump from Colonel to DDM.
 

Andrei_bt

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We don't know yet. The three biggest pieces of equipment MK2 will get would be the Iron Fist APS, a mine plough and ERA. The prototype will come out in 6 months or so they say. Don't worry we will get pictures of it in time.

Only an image is available.

Mk2 looks like It is a huge disappointment, we do see antic Kontakt-type ERA on the turret.
Mine plough - it is also available on any tank.
Iron Fist APS - it is not shown on the picture.
 

sayareakd

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Don't see why. The Arjun does not have reactive armour, only ceramics, it has a 4 man crew and weighs over 60 tons now. The armour can be changed with a modified turret, but the 4 man crew and weight cannot be changed.

Arjun Mk3, if it does exist and if the weight is reduced to below 50 tons with 3 man crew then that will make it a whole new tank. So, no point naming it Arjun Mk3 at all.

Let's not forget what Lt Gen Bharadwaj said, we don't need a heavy tank.
is this same guy in the pic accepting Arjun tank keys, same guy who said Arjun is uptodate tech or something like that.



BTW heard that FMBT GSQR are again going to re written by the new DGMF.
 

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