WS10 and AL31 side by side

badguy2000

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well, some Russian here insists that WS10 be a copy of AL31....

here is a picture showing WS10 and AL31 side by side.....

we can have a look and compare them...

 

badguy2000

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one closer picture of WS10



one closer picture of AL31F
 

Daredevil

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Thew only difference I notice is that the inside part is painted green for WS -10.

Can you please enlighten us, what major differences you spot?
Don't you see, the blades are silver white in WS10 engine while it is dark silver in AL31 engines. I'm sure, based on this, we can say WS10 is not a copy of AL31 :lol:
 

Quickgun Murugan

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Don't you see, the blades are silver white in WS10 engine while it is dark silver in AL31 engines. I'm sure, based on this, we can say WS10 is not a copy of AL31 :lol:
I concede. WS 10 is indeed a state of art, indigenous, independent fighter engine which is not a copy of AL 31F.
 

badguy2000

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Thew only difference I notice is that the inside part is painted green for WS -10.

Can you please enlighten us, what major differences you spot?
the fan of WS10 has 15 blades while AL31 has more than 22 blades.
 

qilaotou

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If you guys can see the images on the wall in the first photo above, it showed differences of the core engines and how the engine structures derived, respectively. The engine core of WS-10A initiated from a civilian GE CFM56 core on which Chinese engineers designed a new core for military jets. That is the major reason why the acceleration rate of WS-10 is inferior to those of AL-31F and F100-GE-100 used for F-16.

WS-10A shared more similarities of inetrnal structures with F100 than with AL-31F.

Differences in parameters:
AL-31F
Compression 4 fans+9 compr. stages
Bypass ratio 0.59:1
Turbine 2-single stage(hi+Lo)

WS-10A/F100-GE
Compression 3 fans + 9 compr. stages
Bypass ratio 0.78:1 (For WS-10A)
Turbine 3-stages (2 lo+ 1hi)


Because of the maturity of CFM56 China is developing a high bypass ratio engine for transporter planes. It's going well so far.

Btw China already developed another high thrust core engine (WS-15) for her 4th G fighters. I hope the wise guys tell us now from which Russian engine it was copied. Hurry!
 

Vladimir79

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well, some Russian here insists that WS10 be a copy of AL31....

here is a picture showing WS10 and AL31 side by side.....

we can have a look and compare them...

I'm not seeing any pictures. It doesn't matter looking side by side anyway. The engine core is what matters and it sure as hell isn't based on CFM56.
 

Vladimir79

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Because of the maturity of CFM56 China is developing a high bypass ratio engine for transporter planes. It's going well so far.
Is that why China signed up with Ukraine to develop their large transport planes? D-18T development is going real well. :sarcastic:

Btw China already developed another high thrust core engine (WS-15) for her 4th G fighters. I hope the wise guys tell us now from which Russian engine it was copied. Hurry!
You couldn't even copy Spey engines properly without the end result a crap WS-9. What makes you think you can skip ten steps and make 15k rated engines? :sarcastic:
 

badguy2000

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Is that why China signed up with Ukraine to develop their large transport planes? D-18T development is going real well. :sarcastic:



You couldn't even copy Spey engines properly without the end result a crap WS-9. What makes you think you can skip ten steps and make 15k rated engines? :sarcastic:
I am afraid that you will become another Gordon Chang....
 

IBRIS

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After going through all these posts and pics....I would have to be an id!ot to not say WS-10 is a bootlegged versions of AL-31.
 

qilaotou

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Is that why China signed up with Ukraine to develop their large transport planes? D-18T development is going real well. :sarcastic:
Chinese engines are only usable. Their design, quality and durability need to mature in time. Ukraine can provide better know-hows in engine technology. It doesn't matter to have another project geared more to commercial applications.

You couldn't even copy Spey engines properly without the end result a crap WS-9. What makes you think you can skip ten steps and make 15k rated engines? :sarcastic:
Here you go again. You choose to ignore facts and rationality. Talkin sh!t is your prelivege here. Wtf do you think you can claim credibility on WS-10A or WS-15?
 

Quickgun Murugan

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If you guys can see the images on the wall in the first photo above, it showed differences of the core engines and how the engine structures derived, respectively. The engine core of WS-10A initiated from a civilian GE CFM56 core on which Chinese engineers designed a new core for military jets. That is the major reason why the acceleration rate of WS-10 is inferior to those of AL-31F and F100-GE-100 used for F-16.

WS-10A shared more similarities of inetrnal structures with F100 than with AL-31F.

Differences in parameters:
AL-31F
Compression 4 fans+9 compr. stages
Bypass ratio 0.59:1
Turbine 2-single stage(hi+Lo)

WS-10A/F100-GE
Compression 3 fans + 9 compr. stages
Bypass ratio 0.78:1 (For WS-10A)
Turbine 3-stages (2 lo+ 1hi)


Because of the maturity of CFM56 China is developing a high bypass ratio engine for transporter planes. It's going well so far.

Btw China already developed another high thrust core engine (WS-15) for her 4th G fighters. I hope the wise guys tell us now from which Russian engine it was copied. Hurry!

Not going into technicalities, you want to prove that WS 10 is a copy from US engine and not Russian engine. At the end of the day, the engine is a copy whether from a Russian or American product.
 

qilaotou

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Not going into technicalities, you want to prove that WS 10 is a copy from US engine and not Russian engine. At the end of the day, the engine is a copy whether from a Russian or American product.
It's a modified CFM56 core. I am not trying to prove anything but provide info that I know. Let me ask you one question. AL-31F has a modified RD33 engine core. Do you say it's a copy of RD33?
 

Vladimir79

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Chinese engines are only usable. Their design, quality and durability need to mature in time. Ukraine can provide better know-hows in engine technology. It doesn't matter to have another project geared more to commercial applications.
I think we all know Ukraine isn't going to help you develop a CFM56 cored engine. The only two engines they have experience with in that catagory are D-30 and D-18 and they are both obsolete.

Here you go again. You choose to ignore facts and rationality. Talkin sh!t is your prelivege here. Wtf do you think you can claim credibility on WS-10A or WS-15?
Because we both know WS-10A is a flop as was WS-9 which is what WS-15 is designed to replace. It doesn't take a genius to make the connection that China's utter failure in a clone of a 13t thrust engine is going to translate to failure skipping ten steps to make a 16 tonne which they have never had access to.
 

qilaotou

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I think we all know Ukraine isn't going to help you develop a CFM56 cored engine. The only two engines they have experience with in that catagory are D-30 and D-18 and they are both obsolete.



Because we both know WS-10A is a flop as was WS-9 which is what WS-15 is designed to replace. It doesn't take a genius to make the connection that China's utter failure in a clone of a 13t thrust engine is going to translate to failure skipping ten steps to make a 16 tonne which they have never had access to.
The core engine for WS-15 was firstly tested in April, 2005, its demonstrater developed successfully and the prototype WS-15 uprunning smoothly so far. Either you are misinformed or you don't want to know the truth. China is undoubtedly much behind Russia specially in engine tech. Nonetheless China has in fact produced WS-9 for JH-7, WS-10A for J-10 and WS-15 for the future fighter. WS-9 and WS-10A are indeed both usable, Mr. Vlad. Without WS-10A China would not have negotiated J-10 orders with PAF. You may keep being arrogant in your posts on China if you enjoy it. But reality is reality, isn't it?
 

Vladimir79

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The core engine for WS-15 was firstly tested in April, 2005, its demonstrater developed successfully and the prototype WS-15 uprunning smoothly so far. Either you are misinformed or you don't want to know the truth.
So post the information already. I would love to see statements from CAC about the development.

China is undoubtedly much behind Russia specially in engine tech.
So you think you can beat us to a 17.5 tonne engine when you can't even copy the old engines we sell you?

Nonetheless China has in fact produced WS-9 for JH-7,
The WS-9 is a licensed production of Spey Mk202 --- you didn't develop anything.

WS-10A for J-10
J-10 doesn't fly on WS-10A, it flies on AL-31FM imported engines from Russia. You just ordered 100 more this year. You haven't developed anything.

and WS-15 for the future fighter.
A 17+ tonne engine when you can't even build anything yourself... right. :sarcastic:

WS-9 and WS-10A are indeed both usable, Mr. Vlad. Without WS-10A China would not have negotiated J-10 orders with PAF. You may keep being arrogant in your posts on China if you enjoy it. But reality is reality, isn't it?
Yes, reality is reality and the reality is China hasn't developed a successful turbofan engine yet. Unless Russia is going to allow Al-31FM export to Pakistan, the news has little meaning since China is still ordering Russian engines. The day China says "Piss off Russia, we will not be ordering your engines" is the day I will believe China is confident they finally have a replacement. That day has not arrived since China will be recieving 100 engines over the next several years.
 

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