Why Germany lost WW2?

[no smoking]

No they had. If they used there troops more wisely.

It is not about how to use their troops, but how to re-supply their troops.

 

[Compersion]

I will never credit Soviet Union with any form of strategy during the initial phase of the operation babarossa. Stalin was as megalomaniacal as Hitler was. Soviet was at lost to find suitable type of defence for the oncoming German juggernaut.

German assault was delayed for several months which gave the Soviets some time to prepare a defense around Moscow. If Moscow was lost. Then the war for the East would have surely be won by Germans.

Panem et circenses

In a political context, the phrase means to generate public approval, not by excellence in public service or public policy, but by diversion, distraction or by satisfying the most immediate or base requirements of a populace — by offering a palliative: for example food (bread) or entertainment (circuses).

Sometimes one thinks:

Soviet Union (and like France) by the 1968s had a UNSC and Nuclear Weapon ability.

What Vyacheslav Molotov did by moving the Soviet Union away from German in 1941 ... was strategic (?) and perhaps not fully understood by Stalin ... ? Was he the reason? Did he truly know what he was doing?

Did Hitler know what he was doing?

In hindsight what the Soviet Union did was significant.

Can one say what the Soviety Union did in 1988-1990 was significant.

"Moved to (a) better position"?

But how ------- it was not easy. Tough?

After signing the Anglo–Soviet Treaty of 1942 on 26 May, Molotov left for Washington, D.C., in the United States. Molotov met with Franklin D. Roosevelt, the President of the United States, and ratified a Lend-Lease Treaty between the USSR and the US. Both the British and the United States government, albeit vaguely, promised to open up a second front against Germany. On his flight back to the USSR his plane was attacked by German fighters, and then later by Soviet fighters.

Dissolution of the Soviet Union - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

A bit like 1988 - 1990s the strategic decisions are not really understood until one sees them from far away and when one looks closer they see (the most dynamic is that there is someone that was ... there is a thread always) ... the Soviet Union being Communist -- today they are Russia. Before Stalin they were ...

At the end of 1989, two years before the final collapse of the Soviet Union, the Congress of People's Deputies of the Soviet Union and Mikhail Gorbachev's government formally denounced the Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact

Vyacheslav Molotov - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

It still makes one wonder why Hitler did what he did and attack the Soviet Union.

Russia is aware of backstabbing.

1941s
(--1970s--)
1998s

Russia is aware of the great game?

Great Game - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Why did Hitler and Germany attack the Soviet Union is most fascinating.

 

[HeinzGud]

Panem et circenses

In a political context, the phrase means to generate public approval, not by excellence in public service or public policy, but by diversion, distraction or by satisfying the most immediate or base requirements of a populace — by offering a palliative: for example food (bread) or entertainment (circuses).

Sometimes one thinks:

Soviet Union (and like France) by the 1968s had a UNSC and Nuclear Weapon ability.

What Vyacheslav Molotov did by moving the Soviet Union away from German in 1941 ... was strategic (?) and perhaps not fully understood by Stalin ... ? Was he the reason? Did he truly know what he was doing?

Did Hitler know what he was doing?

In hindsight what the Soviet Union did was significant.

Can one say what the Soviety Union did in 1988-1990 was significant.

"Moved to (a) better position"?

But how ------- it was not easy. Tough?

After signing the Anglo–Soviet Treaty of 1942 on 26 May, Molotov left for Washington, D.C., in the United States. Molotov met with Franklin D. Roosevelt, the President of the United States, and ratified a Lend-Lease Treaty between the USSR and the US. Both the British and the United States government, albeit vaguely, promised to open up a second front against Germany. On his flight back to the USSR his plane was attacked by German fighters, and then later by Soviet fighters.

Dissolution of the Soviet Union - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

A bit like 1988 - 1990s the strategic decisions are not really understood until one sees them from far away and when one looks closer they see (the most dynamic is that there is someone that was ... there is a thread always) ... the Soviet Union being Communist -- today they are Russia. Before Stalin they were ...

At the end of 1989, two years before the final collapse of the Soviet Union, the Congress of People's Deputies of the Soviet Union and Mikhail Gorbachev's government formally denounced the Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact

Vyacheslav Molotov - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

It still makes one wonder why Hitler did what he did and attack the Soviet Union.

Russia is aware of backstabbing.

1941s
(--1970s--)
1998s

Russia is aware of the great game?

Great Game - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Why did Hitler and Germany attack the Soviet Union is most fascinating.

I think the most basic reason was pre emption. Germans knew that Stalin only bid time to revoke the pact. They needed a buffer before that catastrophe.
The other reasons were IMHO to create a gateway towards India through Persian gates and to capture Baku and possibly Abadan oil fields, to collect Slavic slave labor and claim the vast Ukrainian agri lands.

 

[no smoking]

I think the most basic reason was pre emption. Germans knew that Stalin only bid time to revoke the pact. They needed a buffer before that catastrophe.
The other reasons were IMHO to create a gateway towards India through Persian gates and to capture Baku and possibly Abadan oil fields, to collect Slavic slave labor and claim the vast Ukrainian agri lands.

Oh, please. Peace was never in Hitler's plan in term of his relationship with USSR. On the other hand, India was never his target.

Take a look of his economic policy, his ultimate goal was create a greater German completely self-sufficient on everything. The land of USSR and all the resources on that land were the core of this plan.

In other words, what they needed was not a buffer zone but the extermination of USSR when Nazi still had the military advantage.

 

[MuzzleVelocity]

China has a very mysterious Army i would say.

On one hand they have soldiers who are just there for sponsorship of their degrees.

On the other hand we have Chinese soldiers regularly performing well in International competition of Armies.

You never know what will come when in a war.

I would say even a mix of these two in a war would be lethal supported by the weapon system they have.

Ofcourse we can make fun of them but how many times has NSG won in Jordan or our tank crew won a competition in Russia?

Even Pakis have won more Cambrian patrol than us if i am not wrong.

So u never know how war evolves nations.. Remember USA was not know to have the best military in WW2 but it pretty much fucked all its enemies in every theatre by the end of it.

US fucked everyone in WW2 due to it's better manufacturing capabilities, more machinery and by sheer numbers (8 million soldiers across all theatres). They infact produced aircrafts, artillery, tanks for all the allies including Soviets. Soviets themselves would have been destroyed without American support (a factor that many Russians now ignore).

However man for man, Wehrmacht was the best army in WWII. Best equipment, best training. They would routinely beat Allied forces despite being outnumbered. But they still lost the war om every front.

Point is there are many variables in a war. A well trained Chinese guy can lose his head to a Naga.

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

US fucked everyone in WW2 due to it's better manufacturing capabilities, more machinery and by sheer numbers (8 million soldiers across all theatres). They infact produced aircrafts, artillery, tanks for all the allies including Soviets. Soviets themselves would have been destroyed without American support (a factor that many Russians now ignore).

However man for man, Wehrmacht was the best army in WWII. Best equipment, best training. They would routinely beat Allied forces despite being outnumbered. But they still lost the war om every front.

Point is there are many variables in a war. A well trained Chinese guy can lose his head to a Naga.

No.. Germans lost only coz of stretching their supply lines too quickly.

Germans were not know to have the best Army but the best Generals.

Generals who thought out of the box.

Blitzkrieg,psyops,commando raids,jungle camo are all their inventions.

Germans also had the best equipment from tanks to aircrafts.

In the end their superiority complex drowned them which is also present in many members here.

 

[Aditya Roy]

No.. Germans lost only coz of stretching their supply lines too quickly.

Germans were not know to have the best Army but the best Generals.

Generals who thought out of the box.

Blitzkrieg,psyops,commando raids,jungle camo are all their inventions.

Germans also had the best equipment from tanks to aircrafts.

In the end the superiority complex drowned them which is also present in many members here.

Everyone talks about the Germans and how they lost despite having superior technology. But in reality, the adversaries of Germany were all industrial giants. Sure, German technology was superior, but others were as good as Germany in terms of mass production of reliable weapons.

 

[Pig benis on sushy]

No.. Germans lost only coz of stretching their supply lines too quickly.

Germans were not know to have the best Army but the best Generals.

Generals who thought out of the box.

Blitzkrieg,psyops,commando raids,jungle camo are all their inventions.

Germans also had the best equipment from tanks to aircrafts.

In the end their superiority complex drowned them which is also present in many members here.

I would rather bet on someone who has experience as well as practice rather than on someone who is practicing on their own inside their house. There is no such thing as mysterious force their ain't sci-fi movie going on its simple we have best men a bit lack in hardware but have geographically advantage than China along with allies

 

[MuzzleVelocity]

No.. Germans lost only coz of stretching their supply lines too quickly.

Germans were not know to have the best Army but the best Generals.

Generals who thought out of the box.

Blitzkrieg,psyops,commando raids,jungle camo are all their inventions.

Germans also had the best equipment from tanks to aircrafts.

In the end their superiority complex drowned them which is also present in many members here.

This is wrong. Wehrmacht, man for man were incredibly well trained. Most European outposts were manned by small teams, that would tear apart larger American units. Infact the German army pioneered many tactics, including small squads with a machine gunner, backed by a few riflemen. They were absolutely the best army in WWII.

Frankly it's not even close.

 

[rkhanna]

This is wrong. Wehrmacht, man for man were incredibly well trained. Most European outposts were manned by small teams, that would tear apart larger American units. Infact the German army pioneered many tactics, including small squads with a machine gunner, backed by a few riflemen. They were absolutely the best army in WWII.

Frankly it's not even close.

The world's first assymetrical warfare unit used in modern war ( SOF/ commando) was the Brandenburg Brigade used in the invasion of Poland. They used Gliders for stealth infil and brought down the Polish Govt even before an official shot was fired.

The Germans were brought down by Russians and their Ego. There is a reason supremacist regimes have a short shelf life.

The Soviets fucked their war Machine. All the great accumen they showed in the west was laid to waste on the east. At the same time the allies started to turn the tied and then their already overstretched logistics got fucked.

The Americans on the other hand showed one of the greatest ability to adapt and overcome. They started the war with nothing. They ended the war with the greatest military ok the planet. Their men fought and died in awful battlefields which was not even their home. Darbys Rangers, the 82nf and 101, the USMC in the Pacific Respect where it is due.

 

[MuzzleVelocity]

The world's first assymetrical warfare unit used in modern war ( SOF/ commando) was the Brandenburg Brigade used in the invasion of Poland. They used Gliders for stealth infil and brought down the Polish Govt even before an official shot was fired.

The Germans were brought down by Russians and their Ego. There is a reason supremacist regimes have a short shelf life.

The Soviets fucked their war Machine. All the great accumen they showed in the west was laid to waste on the east. At the same time the allies started to turn the tied and then their already overstretched logistics got fucked.

The Americans on the other hand showed one of the greatest ability to adapt and overcome. They started the war with nothing. They ended the war with the greatest military ok the planet. Their men fought and died in awful battlefields which was not even their home. Darbys Rangers, the 82nf and 101, the USMC in the Pacific Respect where it is due.

Yes. Shows that no matter how good your Soldiers are, if at the top your command is making stupid decisions like staying in the Soviet during winter, nothing can help you.

Also, agreed with your point about the Americans. Quite simply the best war machine out there. Their Pacific campaign was incredibly brutal, and they still did well.

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

This is wrong. Wehrmacht, man for man were incredibly well trained. Most European outposts were manned by small teams, that would tear apart larger American units. Infact the German army pioneered many tactics, including small squads with a machine gunner, backed by a few riflemen. They were absolutely the best army in WWII.

Frankly it's not even close.

Bro the history i read tells me that after the Germans were fucked so badly by French and embarassed also the Germans wanted to take revenge.

In the first Blitzkrieg of Germans against French every source i read says that the French were only and only overpowered by the shear lightening speed of the inferior German Army.

However,as the war progressed Germans showed great innovation and tactics.

I say again..their Generals were exceptionally smart and hence a lot of them were also tried to be assassinated.

Feel free to disagree.

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

The world's first assymetrical warfare unit used in modern war ( SOF/ commando) was the Brandenburg Brigade used in the invasion of Poland. They used Gliders for stealth infil and brought down the Polish Govt even before an official shot was fired.

The Germans were brought down by Russians and their Ego. There is a reason supremacist regimes have a short shelf life.

The Soviets fucked their war Machine. All the great accumen they showed in the west was laid to waste on the east. At the same time the allies started to turn the tied and then their already overstretched logistics got fucked.

The Americans on the other hand showed one of the greatest ability to adapt and overcome. They started the war with nothing. They ended the war with the greatest military ok the planet. Their men fought and died in awful battlefields which was not even their home. Darbys Rangers, the 82nf and 101, the USMC in the Pacific Respect where it is due.

Word by word my thought.

Americans were considered to be inferiors in military and just a good economy.

Their first few campaigns were bloody.

The only worry for Hitler was American money and industry.

My biggest respect for US is their growth in the war and managing two theatres thousands of miles apart so well.

And look where they are today.

 

[Aditya Roy]

This is wrong. Wehrmacht, man for man were incredibly well trained. Most European outposts were manned by small teams, that would tear apart larger American units. Infact the German army pioneered many tactics, including small squads with a machine gunner, backed by a few riflemen. They were absolutely the best army in WWII.

Frankly it's not even close.

According to the old accounts of Indian soldiers who fought the Germans in WW II in the African front, battalion after battalions of Indian troops used to perish under German machine-gun fire and air bombardment. Indian troops were basically cannon fodder for the British empire. Entire units used to get re-raised in India and sent to the frontline within very short notice.

The Kargil conflict exposed India's sloppy ''we are virtuous, we won't cross the LOC etc. etc. '' battle preparedness as well. Poor intelligence, accompanied by a lack of satellite imagery etc. Again soldiers were used as cannon fodder. The 2020 Galwan incident was too an intel failure.

 

[tommy]

Good take on decisions by Stalin.

 

[MuzzleVelocity]

According to the old accounts of Indian soldiers who fought the Germans in WW II in the African front, battalion after battalions of Indian troops used to perish under German machine-gun fire and air bombardment. Indian troops were basically cannon fodder for the British empire. Entire units used to get re-raised in India and sent to the frontline within very short notice.

The Kargil conflict exposed India's sloppy ''we are virtuous, we won't cross the LOC etc. etc. '' battle preparedness as well. Poor intelligence, accompanied by a lack of satellite imagery etc. Again soldiers were used as cannon fodder. The 2020 Galwan incident was too an intel failure.

Yes exactly. This is why things like COMTACS, Binod NVD, shooting drills doesn't bother me as such as what it is a larger indication of. In times of war, will we provide an adequate war machinery of ammunition, logistical support and supplies to our troops. Given that we have given out faulty parachutes, insas rifles that jam or spill oil, ammunition that explode, I have my doubts. Our entire war machine needs a revamp.

 

[shuvo@y2k10]

Top reasons for German defeat in WW2:

1. Did not have the economic ability to sustain the war for long. They should have grown the economy to number one in the world and then started their military conquest.

2. Fighting on both fronts simulataneously.

3. Lack of strategic depth. Unlike Soviet (having Siberia behid), and US (having Atlantic Ocean in between), the Germans did not have strategic depth on either fronts. Thus their industry was continiously under Allied Bombardment since 1942.

4. Lack of manpower: Germans did not have sufficient manpower compared to US. They were continiously outnumbered in battle in the eastern front. Also most of their industrial production was running on slave labour from concentration camps and POWs.

5. Lack of long range bombers to cross the Atlantic Ocean.

6. Unable to build a strong Navy to dominate the Atlantic. Too much focus on U-Boats and neglect of Surface ships. Also, no attempt to build an aircraft carrier fleet.

7. Lack of numbers: Tanks, artillery, fighter planes, bombers (which were only tactical, not strategic) etc. were always lower than Allies.

8. Stechched supply lines on both fronts.

9. Diversion of resources from Army Group centre to Army group South. Shifting main objective from capturing Moscow to capturing the Caucasas (oil fields) during initial 6 months of Operation Barbarossa.

10. Hitlers's continious interference in military decisions and setting unrealistic expectations.

11. Not allowing Paulas to break out of Stalingrad when his 6th Army was trapped despite repeated requests.

12. Not moving sufficient Panzer forces (Armoured colums) near Normandy during initial days of June 1944.

13. Unrealistic objectives set for Kursk offensive in 1943, and insufficient force alloted to it.

14. Lastly, Nazi doctrine itself. Killing of so many Jews who could have become an integral part of German Army and military industrial complex.

 

[Aditya Roy]

The world's first assymetrical warfare unit used in modern war ( SOF/ commando) was the Brandenburg Brigade used in the invasion of Poland. They used Gliders for stealth infil and brought down the Polish Govt even before an official shot was fired.

The Germans were brought down by Russians and their Ego. There is a reason supremacist regimes have a short shelf life.

The Soviets fucked their war Machine. All the great accumen they showed in the west was laid to waste on the east. At the same time the allies started to turn the tied and then their already overstretched logistics got fucked.

The Americans on the other hand showed one of the greatest ability to adapt and overcome. They started the war with nothing. They ended the war with the greatest military ok the planet. Their men fought and died in awful battlefields which was not even their home. Darbys Rangers, the 82nf and 101, the USMC in the Pacific Respect where it is due.

Actually, the idea of Airborne/commando troops was pioneered by the Allied forces including the UK, USA and Russia. Germany was late, however, they improvised on the idea with glider assault etc. The very first German paratrooper landing on Norway ended in disaster. Overall, the German Special Forces/Airborne Infantry were not at all as successful as the allied Paratroopers.
The only remarkable success that German SFs achieved was the rescue of Mussolini in 1943. Gliders were used to assault the hotel where Mussolini was kept under house arrest. Rather than that, almost all German paratrooper missions failed. However, this does not mean that German Paratroopers were less trained or equipped.

 

[no smoking]

Top reasons for German defeat in WW2:

1. Did not have the economic ability to sustain the war for long. They should have grown the economy to number one in the world and then started their military conquest.

They simply couldn't become No.1 economy without military conquest. World market, resources, everything was under the control of UK, France, US and USSR.

2. Fighting on both fronts simulataneously.

They couldn't win a single front war on either side.
To west, their navy and air force couldn't support the invasion of UK;
To east, they simply didn't have the necessary manpower and industrial capability to defeat USSR, unless they had the whole europe join them.

3. Lack of strategic depth. Unlike Soviet (having Siberia behid), and US (having Atlantic Ocean in between), the Germans did not have strategic depth on either fronts. Thus their industry was continiously under Allied Bombardment since 1942.

4. Lack of manpower: Germans did not have sufficient manpower compared to US. They were continiously outnumbered in battle in the eastern front. Also most of their industrial production was running on slave labour from concentration camps and POWs.

These are their weakness not the reason of failure because they knew that long before the war. They simply believe they could finish the war before their enemies were able to take advantage of these weakness.

5. Lack of long range bombers to cross the Atlantic Ocean.

They never had that resources to build such a force and carry out months long (if not years long) strategic bombing.

6. Unable to build a strong Navy to dominate the Atlantic. Too much focus on U-Boats and neglect of Surface ships. Also, no attempt to build an aircraft carrier fleet.

Again, no resource to build a strong Navy.
And her surrounding sea area not suitable for an aircraft carrier fleet to maneuver.

7. Lack of numbers: Tanks, artillery, fighter planes, bombers (which were only tactical, not strategic) etc. were always lower than Allies.

No resource.

8. Stechched supply lines on both fronts.

It was true in the east front, but not so in the west.

9. Diversion of resources from Army Group centre to Army group South. Shifting main objective from capturing Moscow to capturing the Caucasas (oil fields) during initial 6 months of Operation Barbarossa.

No, it was to eliminate the soviet military group around Kyiv, which was threatening the flank of Group centre. Capturing Caucasus was 1942 Starlingrad battle.

10. Hitlers's continious interference in military decisions and setting unrealistic expectations.

Sometimes he was right, sometime he was wrong.
And he was dead, never be able to tell us his side story.

11. Not allowing Paulas to break out of Stalingrad when his 6th Army was trapped despite repeated requests.

Because: 1. Jeschonnek assured Hitler that Luftwaffe can supply 6th Army by airlift.
2. Manstein made him believe that his plan can get Paulas out.

14. Lastly, Nazi doctrine itself. Killing of so many Jews who could have become an integral part of German Army and military industrial complex.

Without ripping off Jews' treasure, they would've been bankrupted long time ago.

 

[asianobserve]

Here is the most important factor in the defeat of Germany and Axis powers in WW2: