What is best calibre for an Assault Rifle?

Sunder singh

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@ Bhadra
1. as u said jawan should wait till it come to 400 m but why he reduce nos of enemy at long distance, reduce their time to come close and wat if he have better range then us.
2. 3 round brust means one bullet of 7.62 equavalent to 3 bullet then wat so gud abot it.
3. injured men carreid by other r just drawing board calulation think can b diffrent with nation war evacuation policy and assets as hellis or size of enemy wat if the injured person fight back just think 20 lakh amry we hav to face.
 

Bhadra

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Originally Posted by Sunder singh

1. i dont think 7.62 has more range then 5.56 but it has poor accuracy in AKs.
2. im not a fan of 7.62 bcoz contineouse firong makes for bit tired.
3. huge explosion near ur ears if some firing near u makes u almost deaf.
4. how many magines u can carry with a pair grinades plus pitthu and pouch etc.

why i hate about 5.56
1. no one want its enemy to stand and again fight after geting a hit from u or ur buddy.
2. bullet proof r bcoming lighter and tougher with kavler wat if its doesnt penitrate.
3. prone to climatic condition its rain allmost every day in north east india and snown above tawang and anni
I like your arguments coming from a soldier. your observations are practicle except that 7.62 X 52 does not have more range.
7,62 X 52 NATO standard calibers safty zone is about five km in a firing zone.
7.62 X 52 when fired from MMG has has effective range of about 1500 m.
5,56 has better muzzle velocity and more penetration upto 500m but after that it looses stability due to many other factors. There is not even a single 5.56mm MMG existing today.

7.62mm has the greatest utilisation across small arms family than any other calibre.
 

Sunder singh

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I like your arguments coming from a soldier. your observations are practicle except that 7.62 X 52 does not have more range.
7,62 X 52 NATO standard calibers safty zone is about five km in a firing zone.
7.62 X 52 when fired from MMG has has effective range of about 1500 m.
5,56 has better muzzle velocity and more penetration upto 500m but after that it looses stability due to many other factors. There is not even a single 5.56mm MMG existing today.

7.62mm has the greatest utilisation across small arms family than any other calibre.
so my question is which round is allrounder to replace 5.56 as AKim said the 6.5 or 6.8
 

Akim

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For an infantryman a substantial difference is not present. And that and that cartridges are good. But it is necessary to take into account logistic yet and. Translation of such large army, as Indian on a new caliber is enough nevertheless an expensive thing. Cheaper yet a bunch of Rafal to purchase. It is simpler to work out a new assault rifle under the caliber of army cartridge. You have advantage - there is a cartridge 7,62*39 мм. In the USA of "intermediate cartridge" of such power in an army not.
 

Sunder singh

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@ Akim and bhadra
can u suggest a riffle bullet
1. need lighter gun to fire.
2. less flash smoke and back kick then 7.62.
3. more bullets on same weight of 7.62.
4. all weather fire power.
5. good range.
6. batter penitration then 5.56.
plzz sugest
 

Akim

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@ Akim and bhadra
can u suggest a riffle bullet
1. need lighter gun to fire.
2. less flash smoke and back kick then 7.62.
3. more bullets on same weight of 7.62.
4. all weather fire power.
5. good range.
6. batter penitration then 5.56.
plzz sugest
Work on the perfection of cartridge a 7,62*39 mm and weapon to him, conduced, but very slowly. The point is that by a main legislator in this area of military fashion, is the USA. While America will not pass to more large caliber for assault rifles, our military officials did not begin to think about.
 
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Sunder singh

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have any fire round 6.5 or 6.8 hope some chinese member can give info on 5.8 perfomance
 

Kunal Biswas

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6.8 is better than any other, 6.5 is very good in close ranges as per gelatin tests..

In Indian terrain presently 7.62x39mm have better kill preform ace than 5.56mm, though 5.56mm SS109 can shred Level 3 protection at ranges over 150m..


6.8mm is under Multi-cal AR RFI..


----------------------------------------------

There is a new AR which use M43 rounds and have range over 400m..



Trichy assault rifle
 

Kunal Biswas

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Multi-Caliber

 
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Bhadra

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@ Akim and bhadra
can u suggest a riffle bullet
1. need lighter gun to fire.
2. less flash smoke and back kick then 7.62.
3. more bullets on same weight of 7.62.
4. all weather fire power.
5. good range.
6. batter penitration then 5.56.
plzz sugest
The answer is 5.56 and to a lesser extent 7.62 X39..... only these two dominate so far
One can produce any calibre but than one has to see international market, interoperability and needs of the war time. Suppose one is short of ammunition, one should be able to procure it from other countries.
 
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Bhadra

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And what you feel on your shoulders while firing is neither called kick back not blow back. It is called recoil.
Blow back is a particular kind of process of operation of firing cycle under which the automatic cycle is completed due to forces of blow back (recoil) of the cartridge.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blowback_(firearms)
 
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Kunal Biswas

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7.62x39 - Kalashnikov
7.62x51 - (NATO standard) SMLE, SLR
7.62x54R - (Rimmed) PK, Dragunov
which one do india use and why any strategy behind
1. In CT ops 7.62m43 have more stopping power and effective against tangos, the recoil of M43 is sustainable..

2. Used in MMG and LMG ( Bren ) one shot one kill round but in AR its not good coz of Recoil so used only in LMG & MMG and now days Sniper Rifles..

3. Used in SVD and these are imported and used in PKM ( Captured ), PKM used in CT as IA dont have a GPMG...


plzz may b they can also tell about countering chinese 5.8 caliber
5.8 preform ace is not at same level as newer 6.5 & 6.8, Its range is little more than M43 but have good stopping power than 5.56mm
 

Kunal Biswas

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2. insas has low kill rate even if not been armored person.

Never underestimate a round, only because it's .22 diameter bullet....

Graphic:

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_vJcKa90vLkg/S2RTg_KWWCI/AAAAAAAAHyI/JkspbO3VNfU/s1024/image006.jpg

http://www.gunslot.com/files/gunslot/images/75688.jpg

http://i397.photobucket.com/albums/pp57/IkeMcgowan/sniper_shot2_292.jpg





---------------------------------------------------------------------

5.56 MM FMJ (SS 109)



Mass 4.0 gm = 61.7Gr

OFB made 5.56MM FMJ

Mass 4.16 gm= 62+ Gr

5.56 mm 62 gr NATO FMJ

 
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Akim

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I am a not theorist, I am a practical worker. you all see in a table, that 5.45 inflicts more frightful wounds what 7,62. But it in a theory. In Transdniestria, or Chechnya specially passed with АК- 74 on АКМ.
And modern specimens of AR under 7,62, have 6 rifling, other step of rifling, burning sleeve, new gas mechanism, systems absorbing return et cetera. And all these nullify level advantages of small-bore cartridge and 7,62*39 put on a level 6,8*45 mm.
 

Kunal Biswas

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I am a practical worker, modern specimens of AR under 7,62, have 6 rifling.And all these nullify level advantages of small-bore cartridge and 7,62*39 put on a level 6,8*45 mm.
I seriously doubt so, because..

Both Rounds fired for 16inch barrel : 415MM

7.62X39mm 123.5 gr Fmj
Velocity is 731.5 m/s
Energy: 2,073.6 J

For a heavy bullet at lesser velocity its Range is 200m straight without elevating..

---------------

6.8mm SPC 115 gr FMJ
Velocity is 785 m/s..
Energy: 2,297 J

For lighter bullet with more velocity its Range is 400m straight without elevating..

----------------------------------------------------

But it can be possible if longer barrel Rifle is used to fire 7.62X39mm the range can be increased..



This Indian Rifle which is heavy influenced by FAL & AKM with a barrel length of 464mm archived firing 7.62X39 at ranges 400meters..

----------------------------------------------------

Regarding Wound i assume 7.62mm also trembled but unlikely 5.45mm/5.56mm preform much better in this regard..

But

7.62 X 39 a slower and Heavy bullet have better Hydrostatic shock which works better in stopping Tangos, regardless where it hits..

Hydrostatic shock or hydraulic shock describes the observation that a penetrating projectile can produce remote wounding and incapacitating effects in living targets through a hydraulic effect in their liquid-filled tissues, in addition to local effects in tissue caused by direct impact.[1][2] There is scientific evidence that hydrostatic shock can produce remote neural damage and produce incapacitation more quickly than blood loss effects.
Hydrostatic shock - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 

Akim

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You again compare descriptions for firing from a regular weapon. But ordinary cartridges are long-livers . Cartridge 7,62*54 (1891), did not especially change from 1906, and used and now in the modern Russian machine guns "Pecheneg". Cartridge 7,62*39 in the modern Ukrainian sniper rifles able to strike exactly target on distance 800-900 meters. At the old machine-gun of RPD quite another ballistic what at RPK - and they use identical ammunition.
P.S. RPD-best
 

Kunal Biswas

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Cartridge 7,62*39 in the modern Ukrainian sniper rifles able to strike exactly target on distance 800-900 meters.
Indeed but i believe it have more to do with Rifle barrel length..

New Cartridge increase velocity ?
 

Bhadra

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Indeed but i believe it have more to do with Rifle barrel length..

New Cartridge increase velocity ?
Even if length was to more 7.62 X 39 is not a fit sniper round for 800 - 900 m.

That way 5.56 LMG on bi pod with a single shot mode is better sniper at 500 -600m
 

Akim

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Indeed but i believe it have more to do with Rifle barrel length..

New Cartridge increase velocity ?
Yes, you are right. Increased long barrel, ammunition is changed, and that I wrote before. It is a single mechanism Now airplanes and rockets of calculated on computers, but not that that rifles!
Distance 800m.
SVD have MOA -1,04
M-24 have -1,18
experienced Ukrainian Rifle 7,62*39 -1,19 MOA
 
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