WAR 1971

[Razor]

I don't care about these 7 decade 2 decade whatever photo-ops.
What about future?
Is Russia switching to noodle shop?

 

[aditya10r]

I don't care about these 7 decade 2 decade whatever photo-ops.
What about future?
Is Russia switching to noodle shop?

As our indigenous programs speed up,russia will lose its market,it will be very much dependent on india and china because west simply hates the orthodox potato eaters.

 

[prohumanity]

Indians and Russians have something in common...they both believe in long term relationship and gratitude.
Russia stood by India in its most difficult times...everyone who knows history knows that. Russia had good intentions towards India and was steadfast in its support
. Nikita Krushcev said " If there is any problem..shout across Himalayas and we ,your friends ,will be there in minutes"
Leonad Breznev said " She is my sister (about Indira Gandhi)..I want her to have our best weapons."

When Bangla Desh was liberated by Indian Army and Mukti Vahini and Indira Gandhi was ready to move towards Pakistan...US sent 7th fleet to threaten India...In response Russia sent submarines to protect India if attacked.
Anyone in right mind..will not to lose such a time tested friend.

As for delays and cost increases.. reality is that the West choked Russia financially by sanctions and oil prices went down..so there was financial reasons for delay....not that Russia wanted to delay supply of weapons to India. Don't be mislead by western propagandists in this matter.
India can be friends of both Russia and the US and thats what India should do.

 

[SanjeevM]

Indians and Russians have something in common...they both believe in long term relationship and gratitude.
Russia stood by India in its most difficult times...everyone who knows history knows that. Russia had good intentions towards India and was steadfast in its support
. Nikita Krushcev said " If there is any problem..shout across Himalayas and we ,your friends ,will be there in minutes"
Leonad Breznev said " She is my sister (about Indira Gandhi)..I want her to have our best weapons."

When Bangla Desh was liberated by Indian Army and Mukti Vahini and Indira Gandhi was ready to move towards Pakistan...US sent 7th fleet to threaten India...In response Russia sent submarines to protect India if attacked.
Anyone in right mind..will not to lose such a time tested friend.

As for delays and cost increases.. reality is that the West choked Russia financially by sanctions and oil prices went down..so there was financial reasons for delay....not that Russia wanted to delay supply of weapons to India. Don't be mislead by western propagandists in this matter.
India can be friends of both Russia and the US and thats what India should do.

I will also second this thought that Russia is our time tested friend. If a real friend is in financial crunch, where can he expect to get finances from? If someone had helped me in need several years ago when no one came to my rescue, I will never want to lose such a friend.

If we improve our relationship with Russia, even China will also not able to bully us.

 

[prohumanity]

I forgot to tell you that when Pakis were trying to break India in pieces by fanning separatist movements in Jammu-Kashmir and Panjab ( Khalistan movement) ...when they were training Panjabi youth in Sialkot and infilterating them inside India to kill and bomb ....

Who was supporting Pakistan ? People who know history ..they know ..that master plan for Paki strategy was used to be prepared in London and toronto.
(You can still see some old, burnt out Khalistanis in Canadian cities...and so I heard.)

Who gave Pakis Patton tanks and Sabre jets...and later F-16s ? Who tried to undermine India by propping up Pakis for decades ?

Smart people remember history and learn from it...Russia did play a significant role in keeping India intact .

 

[Kshatriya87]

We are fools to take russian co-operation for granted. All the time international politics are changing. Look at whats happening in afghanistan. We need to be careful before showing blind faith in them.

 

[Motti]

And may this relationship grow from strength to strength for another 70 years. By then, both India and Russia would prime superpowers.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

http://thediplomat.com/2017/05/india-russia-5th-generation-fighter-jet-deal-is-lost/


India, Russia 5th Generation Fighter Jet Deal is 'Lost'



Anyone have any news about this?

 

[aditya10r]

http://thediplomat.com/2017/05/india-russia-5th-generation-fighter-jet-deal-is-lost/


India, Russia 5th Generation Fighter Jet Deal is 'Lost'



Anyone have any news about this?

Well this piece of shit is written by shit poster THE DIPLOMAT.So lets see what happens now,i believe we should buy Pak-Fa off the table and then modify as per our needs.

Any piece of article coming from THE DIPLOMAT or THE NATIONAL INTEREST is shit.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

India, Russia to set the ball rolling for FTA talks with Eurasian union

http://www.thehindubusinessline.com...-talks-with-eurasian-union/article9717037.ece

 

[LETHALFORCE]

https://www.rbth.com/international/...nd-pakistan-transforms-the-scos-agenda_773172

How the entry of India and Pakistan transforms the SCO’s agenda

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Russia won’t act against India’s interests

http://www.financialexpress.com/ind...-pankaj-saran-on-russia-pakistan-ties/693967/

 

[LETHALFORCE]

https://sputniknews.com/military/201706011054182136-russia-pacific-fleet-drills-china-india-japan/

Russia Pacific Fleet to Hold Joint Drills With China, India, Japan This Summer

 

[zala09]

INDIA HAVE TO BALANCE RATIO RUSSIA :US 60:40....

Because Russian dont like india Get near US
and INDIA cant put Shaken hand down with US...



we never forget What Russia Did for us
and Same think With US too....

 

[Mikesingh]

Trump has dumped India in favor of China due to his business interests.

There will be huge surge in Indo-Russian defence co-operation in coming days. PAK-FA and other deals will go through while Modi is in Russia.

Unfortunately that didn't happen!!

 

[rkhanna]

Lets all of us understand that for most of the 70 years we were a Soviet Vassal State. IG and Co going back a generation were paid agents of the Soviets.

Today vast numbers of Military and MoD cadre remain influenced by a very powerful Russian Lobby and this deathgrip has been slowly bleeding us for the past 2 decades.

While we all know the benefit we have had with the long past soviet relationship. They have helped destroy a great many things in our country and have almost ensured that we will continue to be non-self-reliant for many decades to come (even if we have the capability) - BY default ensuring that we will always be a second rate power.

I say screw the bear.

 

[prohumanity]

I would say that without Soviet help, we would be having 4 parts of India..India proper, Khalistan, Kashmiristan
and Tamil Desham.
US,UK ,Saudi and Paki were hellbent to break up India into pieces.

 

[rkhanna]

I would say that without Soviet help, we would be having 4 parts of India..India proper, Khalistan, Kashmiristan
and Tamil Desham.
US,UK ,Saudi and Paki were hellbent to break up India into pieces.

That is absolute BS with no basis in reality and with no understanding of Indian history. The SU was the just last common denominator we fled too the moment the Pakis went to the Americans. The Soviets in-turn systematically by influencing our Bureaucracy and military for over the bulk of the last century killed our industry, our capacity to innovate and they killed our self reliance. Hell just simply reading the chapter on India in the Mitrokhin Archives will tell you as such.

The irony is that today we all make fun/laugh at the Pakis for being a Chinese colony for CPEC etc etc. It is no different to what we were to the Soviets in many ways.

 

[pmaitra]

That is absolute BS with no basis in reality and with no understanding of Indian history. The SU was the just last common denominator we fled too the moment the Pakis went to the Americans. The Soviets in-turn systematically by influencing our Bureaucracy and military for over the bulk of the last century killed our industry, our capacity to innovate and they killed our self reliance. Hell just simply reading the chapter on India in the Mitrokhin Archives will tell you as such.

The irony is that today we all make fun/laugh at the Pakis for being a Chinese colony for CPEC etc etc. It is no different to what we were to the Soviets in many ways.

The Bhilai Steel Plant was set up with help from the USSR. This was the only plant that was capable of producing metal alloys for ISRO's rockets. Only recently, Godrej and L&T have started producing those alloys.

Coming to Mitrokhin, honest disclosure, I have not read his work, except for tit-bits.

It is probably not very well known that Indian Navy sought submarines from the west, but was snubbed, which made India look towards the USSR.

Source: India-USSR Relations, 1947-1971: From Ambivalence to Steadfastness,

London refused to sell modern submarines to India, and the aircraft carrier Vikrant was sold without the long-stroke catapult, thereby greatly reducing its capabilities.

Source: http://www.worldhistory.biz/sundries/27050-indian-navy.html

So, at least in this case, the USSR didn't quite need to bribe Indian politicians, when the UK, US, and French did an awesome job of snubbing India.

During the 1971 War, Mukti Bahini was trained not only by the Indian Army, but also by the Soviet Army. One contingent of Mukti Bahini was trained in Simferopol, Crimea, then part of the Ukrainian SSR and recently rejoined back to the Russian Federation.

Source: Yuri Bezmenov (http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/...ation-next-on-indias-list.68499/#post-1048116)

I just want to say that Mitrokhin was a defector, so I wonder how much of Mitrokhin's claims are exaggerated under pressure from his hosts. Therefore, it is up to the reader to decide whether to trust him or not.

Related old thread: http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/...how-spies-penetrated-the-heart-of-india.2440/

 

[rkhanna]

Actually you are quoting instances and drawing inferences not realizing the Political and Economic costs we paid. for each of the above. When you sell your soul to the devil - he owns it.

The Bhilai Steel Plant was set up with help from the USSR. This was the only plant that was capable of producing metal alloys for ISRO's rockets. Only recently, Godrej and L&T have started producing those alloys.

You need to research the fine print of that plant and why only now have Advanced Steel making been introduced by private players.

Quoting from a PDF i have.

". India’s beneªt from Soviet friendship until then had been mainly economic and symbolic—a giant steel mill and other icons of Soviet-style industrialization donated by Khrushchev. Soviet aid to India lagged behind that to Indonesia and Egypt—the main targets of Khrushchev’s arms diplomacy—but he was trying to expand it."

The Soviet Union’s Partnership with India - Vojtech Mastny

So after the Mill -1959 to 1962 both India and SU relations with the PRC declined. To expand Soviet help to India Soviet union gave us a line of credit for Non Military supplies and made us buy their weapons (Saudi Arabia anybody?) -

By 1968 we were firmly in the Soviet Camp by necessity. American's found more traction to their world view in Pakistan while we continue to harp on our Non Aligned Status but in reality were just toeing an Anti-Capital line that ironically was pro-soviet. Russia found an Easy ally (guinea pig) in India. We had just fought a war with China - the Soviets were having their own border issues with china. We Were anti Pakistan (another American vassal) and we had deep ties to the Middle East. Russia used us with remarkable astuteness in all of the above for over 4 decades.

Post WWII with the NAM India vied for Respect in a Western World Order. The Western world ofcourse refused to give this respect to its former colonies. The Soviets did. So we went to bed with them.

Yes they helped us with our nuclear reactors, Military and Missle program - But lets not be delusional they did it for themselves. Arming India threw another counter balance into world politics - and because of the above they continue to hold us by the balls and squeeze.

It is probably not very well known that Indian Navy sought submarines from the west, but was snubbed, which made India look towards the USSR.

We did Eventually get an HDW line hook line and sinker with TOT deeper than ANYTHING the soviets ever gave us. Research why we never expanded that production line and why it went to waste. The Soviets actively lobbied to kill any other product that was in active competition to theirs. in 2017 the same old story can be seen with the Arjun, The above quoted book is a very miopic romantic mental masturbation of the actual ground REAL-POLITIC that pervaded throughout the Cold war and into the 2000s

What the brits did with the Hermes is nothing short of the what the Russians have pulled with the Gorshkov, T-90, Su-30, etc etc today and every weapon system over the past 20-30 years.

So, at least in this case, the USSR didn't quite need to bribe Indian politicians, when the UK, US, and French did an awesome job of snubbing India.

Sorry the absolute opposite. Indian Politicans were not just bribed they were owned. When IG lost the election the head of the KGB had to resign as it was seen as one of the biggest failure of the SU's foriegn policy efforts. the Story is just as grotesque on a state by state basis.

During the 1971 War, Mukti Bahini was trained not only by the Indian Army, but also by the Soviet Army. One contingent of Mukti Bahini was trained in Simferopol, Crimea, then part of the Ukrainian SSR and recently rejoined back to the Russian Federation.

Sorry but that does not mean anything By 71 we were a Soviet Vassal. The above is simply additional CAPEX to protect an investment. Do you mean to say everytime the Americans funded an insurgency (SFF (India), Anti communists in South America, Asia, Africa) they did it out of love and goodwill?). Hell in Kargil the Israelis provided more support to us than the Russians.

I just want to say that Mitrokhin was a defector, so I wonder how much of Mitrokhin's claims are exaggerated under pressure from his hosts. Therefore, it is up to the reader to decide whether to trust him or not.

Suggest reading the chapter on India and IG.

Another suggested Area of research would be the life and impact of the policies of Krishna Menon. - He was by far the biggest Soviet fanboy in India. Almost every pro soviet paper/opinion every written including well into the 90s is the same mental masturbation from the "Menon School"

The ONLY reason the India-Soviet ties are considered a success story today was that they was simply no Conflict of Interest between the two countries and hence the ties sustained.

Ofcourse my loathing of the Soviets/Russians is due to many reasons that i have learned through my personal connections of people involved during that time. that is my Myopia - and is at the opposite end of the spectrum to your view. The reality most likely lies in the middle.