WAR 1971

[pankaj nema]

16 December is APPROACHING Coincidentally this is the 40 th ANNIVERSARY of 1971 war

If you GUYS want to see a WHINE FEST Read Pakistani newspapers,forums etc
both before and after 16 th december

It will show the huge SENSE of LOSS that they feel

 

[mayfair]

Pakistan till 1971 believed that it could win a war against India because China threat will cause a thinning
of Indian armed forces and India will have to cater for three fronts

ie China ,East Pakistan and West Pakistan which is what we precisely did in 1971

The fighting with Pakistan was on both fronts and on the western front we managed only a few small gains

Now when our THREE strike corps are MOBILISED It causes " Brown salwars " in GHQ Rawalpindi

So pakistan has LOST Not only LAND, Natural Resources and Talented people it has been FORCED
to seek strategic depth in Afghanistan because of its very thin and elongated geography

That was because there was no intention to grab and occupy territory in West Pakistan, we did however, grab a part of Baltistan and hold on to it (Turtuk).

 

[Tshering22]

Let's put the reality cap on and see. Sindhis and Balochis have no enmity with India. They don't see us as the enemy. Sindhis are interested in doing business with India while Balochis want to use their rich natural gas reserves for their own region, which is going to only Islamabad and Lahore.

The main problematic zones in Pakistan are Pakistani punjab and Khyber Pakhtunkhwa. So much so that even their own military doesn't know their entire country's terrain including their disastrous campaigns in NWFP and Balochistan!

So technically these two provinces if separated, can be of good benefit to us. However, we will have to do something about the nuclear weapons that are stored in these provinces.

 

[Yusuf]

Those nukes can be secured with the help of locals if they blockade all exit points in their region. That would mean less nukes in the hands of PakJabs.
The international community read west can then do what they did with tr nukes in CIS.

 

[Nagraj]

let's see that again pakistan lost land in 1971 a big sized chunk of land for whose citizens they never really cared.
t means that this land is not available to Chinese . this land is not available to American. this land is not available to Saudis for spreading their bullshit.
pakistan no longer earns revenue (wich was more like hafta wasooli by local gundas )from bangladesh. less money for army.

well u still think it hasn't helped us . really ???

 

[agentperry]

India and bangladesh shares many thing which could have made bd closer to India, more than what nepal used to be and bhutan is. but the failure of policymakers to finish of anti-India population in bd caused a big trouble. when they were there for war they should be clearing the area of not only armed enemy but also those who will become one after the victory in the course of time. thus the ethnic cleansing type of thing, or one can say an operation to separate anti-Indian bengalis from mainstream was not even undertaken. this is the main cause of present trouble that even after having the position of creator of that nation the virus of anti-Indian scums haunts the future of both the nation as stable nation.

even now India can make efforts to stabilize the relationship by taking India to bd thru enhanced security and economic co-operation. India should allow the bd people to choose between better future with a pass for them to get linked to nepal and bhutan via India or to stay in isolation regarding connectivity with other saarc members. one shouldnt run after bd but tell them the scene and allow them to make a choice. after that our policy regarding bd should be framed.

 

[mayfair]

Let's put the reality cap on and see. Sindhis and Balochis have no enmity with India. They don't see us as the enemy. Sindhis are interested in doing business with India while Balochis want to use their rich natural gas reserves for their own region, which is going to only Islamabad and Lahore.

I think that is a very naive and simplistic assumption my friend. If you recall, Sindhis were one of the first to vote for joining Pakistan. They have no love lost for India or Indians. The Sindhi landlords such as Bhuttos were equally complicit in stoking anti-India as compared to the Pakjabis. SindPakis are cut from a cloth not too different from the one that Pakjabis come from.

There are no problem zones in that country..the whole country is one festering sore on this planet.

By all means, support Sindh's attempt to break away as an independent country, but no way should we repeat our mistakes with Bangladesh.

 

[Virendra]

That was because there was no intention to grab and occupy territory in West Pakistan, we did however, grab a part of Baltistan and hold on to it (Turtuk).

Yeah those 4-5 villages we grabbed back in 1971.

More at a nice travelogue. Courtesy Mayfair: www.outlookindia.com | Turtuk Diary

Regards,
Virendra

 

[Galaxy]

I would completely agree with article.

Bangladesh is next Pakistan in making. They just don't have capability as of now but be sure sooner or later, It would create problem for us in N-E region. They have strong intention for that. It might be not be same like Islamic Pakistan but in any case it would be danger for us. It's just matter of time.

 

[Virendra]

Those nukes can be secured with the help of locals if they blockade all exit points in their region. That would mean less nukes in the hands of PakJabs.
The international community read west can then do what they did with tr nukes in CIS.

I bet they're moving the nukes (in vans) only within Pakistan Punjab region. They don't have the confidence of controlled & safe maneuver of such stuff in any other other province. That narrows it down doesn't it?

Bangladesh is next Pakistan in making. They just don't have capability as of now but be sure sooner or later, It would create problem for us in N-E region. They have strong intention for that. It might be same like Islamic Pakistan but in any case it would be danger for us. It's just matter of time.

This is something I don't understand. There are many Muslim nations all over the world, but the most radical and notorious breed is here in South Asia.

 

[Galaxy]

This is something I don't understand. There are many Muslim nations all over the world, but the most radical and notorious breed is here in South Asia.

Yes, true.

Most radical islamist in South Asia is due to various reasons.

1>Inferiority complex with India.
2> Both Pakistan and east Pak (Bangladesh) Islamic country was created based on hatred against Hindus and other Indian religions.
3> Hatred against India gives more political mileage to parties in both countries.
4> They all have inferiority complex with so called evil Hindus as they think Invaders like Mughals, Turks, Gaznavi were best period. They want to rule South Asia even when 95% of them are originally Hindus and they had no connection with Islamic invaders.

In short, It's DNA problem.

These things are not in Middle-East, parts of Africa and Central Asia because they are in majority and ruling countries completely for many centuries. Why countries like Turkey, Arabs has problem with Syria ? because a 15% Minority Alwaite Shi'a who consume alcohol with 10% Christians ruling the country for last 40 years. What if any Christans will rule Syria in future ?? Terrorism, Jihad, extremist would be at all time high there. Same example is Israel. Unfortunately, when Muslims are in minority or have very less influence in any part of the world. They start thinking of Ruling the region with help of Jihad, Extremist and terrorism.

 

[Dovah]

This is something I don't understand. There are many Muslim nations all over the world, but the most radical and notorious breed is here in South Asia.

Poverty and a twisted sense of entitlement.

 

[Galaxy]

Poverty and a twisted sense of entitlement.

it's not about poverty but Ideology and inferiority complex of those Islamist. It's their inherit DNA problem.

If poverty is the criteria, Central Asia and West Africa would be most effected but It's least in this very world.

 

[Galaxy]

Africa is pretty messed up in terms o terrorism not just Islamic but Christian too. This further relates poverty more closely to terrorism than ideology. Terrorism isn't exclusive to Islam but poverty is endemic among the Sub continental Muslims.

Then what i said is completely true.

In whole Africa, Christians are in majority. So, it's messed up as Muslims are in Minority. South Asia is another valid example.

No major Problem in Central Asia as 90% are Muslims mainly.

Also lately, Terrorism in South-East are also on rise with same reason.

When Muslims are in minority in any region then only problem starts. In South Asia, there are more reasons beside the one i mentioned in this post which i mentioned in post No. 35 (partition based on religion, DNA problem, etc.)

 

[agentperry]

there is a reason for such inferiority complex which is more related to 1970s and 1980s than 1947.

pakistan after 1971 was in shock- failure of martial race, jinnah dream nuked and military shown the aukat by arch rival. these things matters a lot to pakistanis and after this their leadership made many efforts-sincere one, to get power- both military and economic.
many good things happened to them at that time as if god was consoling crying kid, american proxy on ussr in afghanistan and idea of islamic bomb.
pakistan gained new age f-16s from usa and many many modern american warcrafts. this raised there confidence in themself, military was once again ready to go in war.
money? this came from ksa, usa, libya and iran. also good relations with usa opened a door for pakistanis to get into usa for business jobs and their good behavior earned them good position in usa which inturn made native pakis earn remittance.
this also helped them in taking their govt publication of anti-India and false war stories to west. and it did affected local masses. false pakistani stories lured westerners and made them believe that India is nothing but some bad land with ugly people. and the positive feedback made the home population more rejoiced and confident.

by the end of 70s and mid 80s, local population was once again brainwashed and confident( arrogant) to deter any India misadventure( official pakistani position). their industries grew and there exports increased on the concessions of west.

they had no reason to be ashamed of being paksitani and feeling of being a national of loser faded away( propaganda not time is biggest healer).

in 1990s things were different, russia lost, usa won, usa got busy in party in which pakistan was not invited. some sentiments were hurt. the economic concessions were gone, but again this is the time when India was struggling to survive after the crash of 1991. your pain is my gain, pakistan was on opium high.

then kargil bought restrictions to pakistan and 9/11 some monetary support. but consequently the economy deteriorated and now finally when the bubble is no more and world of IT washed away the propaganda dirt.

they are confused and only thing they can do is to call the kettle black.

 

[W.G.Ewald]

Africa is pretty messed up in terms of terrorism not just Islamic but Christian too. This further relates poverty more closely to terrorism than ideology. Terrorism isn't exclusive to Islam but poverty is endemic among the Sub continental Muslims.

Reminds me Obama sent SF advisors to deal with LRA, Haven't heard anything about that since.

 

[amitkriit]

The analysis is absolutely correct, breaking up Pakistan into two pieces was never gonna help. We need to carve out at least 5-10 nations out of it.

 

[Dovah]

Reminds me Obama sent SF advisors to deal with LRA, Haven't heard anything about that since.

Did he, Lol!!!
SF advisers are an overkill for that lunatic Joseph Kony though.

 

[bhramos]

Pakistan army officers got away without being tried for genocide in 1971: Colonel Anil Athale (retd) identifies India's three blunders in that war.

The 1971 Indo-Pak war was one of those rarest of rare occasions in our history when India took the military initiative.

Politically, the war began in April 1971 when Pakistan pushed nearly nine million refugees into India through a campaign of rape, murder and terror that statistically comes close to Hitler's genocide of Jews in the Second World War, in scale and brutality.

Military force remained the only option when it became clear that the rest of the world had decided to ignore this crime. India bided its time till the winter snows closed the Himalayan passes, rendering Chinese intervention difficult.

Around November 26, 1971, India began to nibble at East Pakistani territory. Pakistan, instead of cutting its losses and calling quits, in a desperate gamble escalated the conflict by launching air/ground attacks in the West on December 3, 1971. By escalation, it hoped to rope in China and the US in widening the conflict and hoped for a UN intervention a la Kashmir.

The Indian Air Force achieved remarkable success when within the first 48 hours it achieved complete air superiority in the Eastern theatre of war. This enabled the advancing army columns to move without any fear of detection even in daytime.

With supply from the air assured, the army did not have to be dependent on opening of roads, which were heavily defended by the Pakistanis. The five division-strong Indian forces advanced from three directions and secured choke points well in the rear.

The bypassed Pak forces had no option but to up stick and attack the Indian troops in order to go back to Dhaka. This was a classic case of 'offensive strategy' and defensive tactics devised by the indomitable General J F R Jacob.

These tactics were reminiscent of the Israeli tactics of 1967 war when they bypassed the Egyptian forces in front and seized the passes in the rear (the Mitla and Giddi passes in the Sinai mountains).

The Indian Army in Bangladesh similarly bypassed the Pakistani forces on the border and headed for the river ferries/crossings/bridges in the rear. This war strategy took advantage of the fact of modern warfare that tactically 'defence' is always stronger than offence.

The Eastern prong led by Lieutenant General Sagat Singh found a chance opening and exploited it. In 24 hours, 12 small helicopters of the air force ferried brigade strength across a mile wide Meghan river.

The Pakistani defenders were totally taken aback and Indian troops reached Dhaka by December 13-14. The navy had blockaded the sea and All India Radio constantly drummed into the Pak soldiers that they had no choice but to surrender.

Surrender by the 93,000 strong garrison was only a matter of time.

It is interesting to note that the Indian troops had less than 1:2 superiority and were on the offensive. Normally that means more casualties. But it is tribute to Indian general-ship that the Indian loss was 2,000 men as against that of Pak at 6,000.

Credit for this goes to the dash and efficiency of the three services. The Bangladesh attack has been compared by many to the famous Blitzkrieg of the Germans. It must be never forgotten that the military success was a joint Indo-Bangladeshi effort.

Without the whole-hearted support from the Bangladeshis, this war could have never been won. The people of Bangladesh paid a very heavy price for their freedom.

Three Indian blunders in the 1971 war - Rediff.com News

 

[utubekhiladi]

In the West, both sides played a waiting game. In northern Kashmir, in the dead of winter, the Indian Army that was better trained and equipped, captured large amount of territory. There were minor losses in Chhamb and in Punjab.

India captured the Shakargarh tehsil in Punjab and many jump-off points on the western front. When the cease fire came on December 17, India had shifted many troops from the East to West and was in a military position to over-run West Pakistan as well.

The move of USS Enterprise and American threats of retaliation as well as Russian caution possibly saved Pakistan. An abortive Pakistani attempt to break through in Rajasthan at Longewala was foiled by a dogged infantry and the Indian Air Force that came to the army's rescue.

The navy in the course of the war sunk the Pakistani Ghazi submarine and also raided Karachi harbour. The air force carried out limited attacks only on military targets.

All in all, the 1971 war was a comprehensive victory for India and Bangladesh.

India's three strategic blunders:

In 1971 India lost a golden opportunity to sever the Sino-Pak communications by land and threaten the Karakoram highway.

In the 1971 war, all attention was focussed on the Eastern front. The Indian successes in Punjab, Shakargad, Chicken's Neck near Akhnoor, the thrust towards Naya Chor in the deserts were substantial. We also lost Chhamb in Jammu and Kashmir and small areas in the Fazilka sector.

The rest of the Cease Fire Line (as it was then called) was quiet with the exception of some 'local' initiatives in Ladakh, largely due to the valiant efforts of the great Colonel Rinchon and his Ladakh Scouts.

Kashmir was not an issue at all in that war.

Later at the Simla Peace Conference, India brought in the Kashmir issue. The conversion of the Cease Fire Line (agreed as per the Karachi agreement of 1949) was converted to the LOC or Line of Control, a sort of half-way house between the Cease Fire Line and the international border.

Though not marked on the ground, it is marked on the map in great detail after a ground survey. But at the conference in Simla, it was also agreed to let each side retain the territory captured by each other in Jammu and Kashmir.

In spite of extensive study of all the official documents connected with this war (including the minutes of the meeting of the Cabinet Committee on Political Affairs, the top decision-making body in the country at the time), there is no hint that this was a considered policy of the government of India before the war and that the armed forces were aware of it.

In the 1971 war in Kashmir, Pakistan gained some territory in Chhamb as the Indian Army poised for an offensive was caught off guard by the Pakistani attack. A determined Pakistani attack against the city of Poonch was thwarted by superior Indian strength.

India captured strategic outposts in the Kargil area, posts that dominated the Srinagar-Ladakh road link and was a constant irritant. In a war fought at the height of winter, the better-trained and equipped Indian mountain troops also captured vast areas north of Leh in the Partapur and Turtuk sector.