USA China Cold War

[Blood+]

Nothing happens. Amreeka will move their tech out of Taiwan and Taiwan becomes another SAR of China. Amreeka is not going to fight for Taiwan. The only country they will possibly fight for is Australia and to some extent the Philippines. The US has already voiced its support for One China policy. Taiwan would be foolish to rely on Amreeka support. Back then when every Asian country was poor and devastated after colonial rule, WW2 etc Chinese went mad after Korean War and annexed Tibet. They took land when things were hot. What did we do? We did Panchsheel and Hindi-chini bhai bhai as the partition disaster meant Hindus became weak and no longer willing to fight. We also had a weak, pacifist clown for an PM. Other than a few Indian Army regiments, the rest were just poorly equipped foot soldiers. Without these regiments, we would have lost even more territory. That is what a mad enemy can do to regiments that care more about dress and eating manners than getting aggressive and fighting. Anyways past is past. What are we doing now?

Nah.

 

[fooLIam]

Nothing happens. Amreeka will move their tech out of Taiwan and Taiwan becomes another SAR of China. Amreeka is not going to fight for Taiwan. The only country they will possibly fight for is Australia and to some extent the Philippines. The US has already voiced its support for One China policy. Taiwan would be foolish to rely on Amreeka support. Back then when every Asian country was poor and devastated after colonial rule, WW2 etc Chinese went mad after Korean War and annexed Tibet. They took land when things were hot. What did we do? We did Panchsheel and Hindi-chini bhai bhai as the partition disaster meant Hindus became weak and no longer willing to fight. We also had a weak, pacifist clown for an PM. Other than a few Indian Army regiments, the rest were just poorly equipped foot soldiers. Without these regiments, we would have lost even more territory. That is what a mad enemy can do to regiments that care more about dress and eating manners than getting aggressive and fighting. Anyways past is past. What are we doing now?

Don’t know if USA is willing to go war over Taiwan but if it falls than so is 1st island chain and PLAN will have easy access to pacific. A scenario that puts chills in America.

 

[RoaringTigerHiddenDragon]

Don’t know if USA is willing to go war over Taiwan but if it falls than so is 1st island chain and PLAN will have easy access to pacific. A scenario that puts chills in America.

Until Guam and Hawaii are there, Amreeka doesn’t care about PLAN. Not to mention to even get out to Pacific, PLAN has to cross Japanese waters. Japan’s has massively increased its defense budget and arming itself. Amree unkil will deter through Japan and not Taiwan. Taiwan is a lost cause. Like HK they have no option but to revert to mainland China. And just like HK, the CCP will eliminate all democrazy, protests etc. in Taiwan. Taiwan rich people will move to white nations and Singapore etc. The rest will be strictly watched using tech like in HK. End of story.

 

[fooLIam]

Until Guam and Hawaii are there, Amreeka doesn’t care about PLAN. Not to mention to even get out to Pacific, PLAN has to cross Japanese waters. Japan’s has massively increased its defense budget and arming itself. Amree unkil will deter through Japan and not Taiwan. Taiwan is a lost cause. Like HK they have no option but to revert to mainland China. And just like HK, the CCP will eliminate all democrazy, protests etc. in Taiwan. Taiwan rich people will move to white nations and Singapore etc. The rest will be strictly watched using tech like in HK. End of story.

That’s the thing with American security establishment it’s hyper proactive ,(Indian establishment can learn good lesson from them)they are not even letting PLAN having breathing space till Taiwan and till Japan it’s stretching.forget about Hawaii.

 

[Master Chief]

If Taiwan falls than its over for all the countries in the '1st Island Chain' and Japan is a part of it.

Japan is a treaty ally of US.

Yes.. Chinese capture of Taiwan will allow China to dominate Japan's Sea lines of communication making Japan China's Bitch

 

[ezsasa]

CCP adds another proxy (news channel) in North America
====
CNA launches in North America as part of international expansion

 

[Blademaster]

Nah.

US is not going to abandon Taiwan without a fight. US is willing to incur significant casualties to protect Taiwan because once that falls it’s a domino effect and will spell end of US superpower status. US doesn’t want that to happen.

 

[Blood+]

US is not going to abandon Taiwan without a fight. US is willing to incur significant casualties to protect Taiwan because once that falls it’s a domino effect and will spell end of US superpower status. US doesn’t want that to happen.

I know.

 

[RoaringTigerHiddenDragon]

Don’t know if USA is willing to go war over Taiwan but if it falls than so is 1st island chain and PLAN will have easy access to pacific. A scenario that puts chills in America.

If the US is willing to go to war with china, they would not be harping on One China policy. They would have abandoned it and stationed a base right in Taiwan. Actions speak louder than words. No i dont think Amreeka will fight for Taiwan. They will expect Japan, S Korea, Australia, India, Philippines to fight for Taiwan.

 

[Super Flanker]

Some say that China won't invade Taiwan, these are the same people who said that Russia wouldn't invade Ukraine even after Russia began massing it's troops on its border with Ukraine several months before the war. Taking over Taiwan has always been on the wishlist of the CCP and sooner or later, they will go ahead and invade Taiwan.

I think China will employ a similar strategy In Taiwan to What Russia did in Ukraine. The initial attack will be a shock and awe campaign consisting of a barrage of missile strikes across Taiwan. With this S&A campaign, CCP would want to.
1. Disable Taiwanese airfields such as Ching Chuan Kang Air Base. In such a scenario, Taiwan may be forced to use civillian roads and highways to operate their aircraft from.
2. Take out every military base/ammunition depot/infrastructure such as power grids etc because if you disable the critical structures, you essentially have won already.
3. In a war between China and Taiwan, Taiwan will lose badly unless backed up by intelligence, and Weopons aid but the difference here between Ukraine and Taiwan is that Ukraine shares a land border with multiple countries whereas Taiwan is an island less than 200 kms away from the Chinese mainland. Any form of aid will have to be transported to ROC via water or air but both the ways may be impossible because the CCP may surround the island and stop any ship or aircraft bringing aid to Taiwan.
4. The only way Taiwan will survive this is if the US gets directly involved which I don't think the US will do so any time soon.

But rest assured, a Taiwan type-misadventure won't work out against a country like India.

 

[no smoking]

US is not going to abandon Taiwan without a fight. US is willing to incur significant casualties to protect Taiwan because once that falls it’s a domino effect and will spell end of US superpower status. US doesn’t want that to happen.

US is going to fight for Taiwan even with significant casualties only if she believes that she can win eventually.
Abandoning Taiwan without a fight will be diplomatic crisis for US' role in Asia, which can be managed, but it won't end US' dominance position immediately.
But if US fight and lose the war, it will be a disaster and accelerate US decline in this part of world. Military protection is the No.1 thing Asian countries expects from her.
And contrast to what you think, even losing Asia won't spell the end of US superpower status. The worst case is she will be one of several superpowers after all no one can come to challenge her position in America continent by crossing the 2 big oceans.

 

[Blademaster]

US is going to fight for Taiwan even with significant casualties only if she believes that she can win eventually.
Abandoning Taiwan without a fight will be diplomatic crisis for US' role in Asia, which can be managed, but it won't end US' dominance position immediately.
But if US fight and lose the war, it will be a disaster and accelerate US decline in this part of world. Military protection is the No.1 thing Asian countries expects from her.
And contrast to what you think, even losing Asia won't spell the end of US superpower status. The worst case is she will be one of several superpowers after all no one can come to challenge her position in America continent by crossing the 2 big oceans.

good try at psyops against US but no.

 

[ezsasa]

Vietnam becomes the latest country to give Russian President Vladimir Putin a special welcome.

 

[Azaad]

good try at psyops against US but no.

It's no psyops, it's a fact. If the US doesn't honour its treaty obligations, it's not a super power but a paper tiger. Nobody in Asia would show any respect for it then. And with Asia gone it becomes an Atlantic power.

China believes it can take on the US, win & conquer Taiwan. It fails to take into consideration the massive alliance network the US has built up which plays no small part in sustaining its hegemony. For when China crosses the Straits of Formosa to take Taiwan, it'd end up confronting the navies & air forces of not just the US but Japan, Australia, the UK & Philippines at the very least apart from their expeditionary forces, rocket forces, ISR capabilities, cyber warfare etc.

Good luck to the Chinese with that.

From the Indian perspective we want both powers to cancel each other out like Germany did the existing super powers of the day - the UK & France while extinguishing itself.

 

[skywatcher]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2024/06/24/nasa-china-space-race-moon/

U.S. ‘on schedule’ in race with China to land people on moon, NASA chief says
China recently landed an uncrewed spacecraft on the moon for the fourth time, but NASA’s Bill Nelson says the U.S. will return astronauts there within a few years.


By Christian Davenport
June 24, 2024 at 6:10 a.m. EDT

After another Chinese spacecraft touched down on the lunar surface earlier this month, this time to retrieve samples from the moon’s far side, NASA Administrator Bill Nelson congratulated a country that is challenging the United States’ long-held dominance in space. He said he was impressed with its fourth successful moon landing.

“I’ve been fairly pointed in my comments that we’re in a space race with the Chinese, and that they are very good,” he said in a recent interview with The Washington Post. “Especially in the last 10 years, they’ve had a lot of success. They usually say what they mean, and they execute on what they say.”

But despite China’s many achievements in space — which include an occupied space station in low Earth orbit and landing a rover on Mars in 2021 — the United States remains on track to return astronauts to the lunar surface ahead of its chief rival, Nelson said.

NASA plans to one day build an enduring presence at the hottest real estate in the solar system: the lunar south pole. In a key step toward that goal, NASA intends to fly four astronauts around the moon late next year, and then land people on the surface in late 2026 for the first time since the last of the Apollo missions, in 1972.

That schedule, however, has been pushed back a few times because of technical challenges, including an effort to better understand the performance of the heat shield of the capsule intended to fly astronauts to and from the vicinity of the moon. During a test flight around the moon in 2022 without anyone on board, the heat shield of NASA’s Orion spacecraft “wore away differently than expected” in more than 100 places as it plunged through the atmosphere, according to a report released in the spring by NASA’s inspector general. In some places, it looked like chunks were torn away, leaving pothole-like scars in the material.

“Should the same issue occur on future Artemis missions, it could lead to the loss of the vehicle or crew,” the report concluded.

NASA’s plan to return humans to the surface is a complicated one that requires Orion to get them to orbit around the moon, and then a separate spacecraft — SpaceX’s Starship — to transport them to the lunar surface. Starship would then fly the astronauts back to meet up with Orion in lunar orbit for the return trip back to Earth.

Given Starship’s important role of landing on the surface, NASA is closely watching its development. SpaceX recently conducted the fourth test flight of the massive vehicle, the biggest and most powerful ever built, flying it most of the way around the globe in what the company said was a largely successful flight that will allow it to continue to develop it rapidly.

Nelson said “a good indicator of” NASA’s ability to get to the moon ahead of China “was SpaceX’s success in their last Starship flight.” But Elon Musk’s company still needs to demonstrate the vehicle can be refueled in Earth orbit by a fleet of tanker spacecraft, fly humans safely as well as land softly on the moon — all highly ambitious, complicated tasks that could take years to achieve.

Both the U.S. and China are ultimately aiming to set up encampments by the moon’s south pole, where there is water in the form of ice in its permanently shadowed craters. Water is not only vital to sustain life, but its component parts, oxygen and hydrogen, can also be used as rocket fuel, allowing further exploration into the solar system.

Despite the competition between the U.S. and China, the two countries will have to find a way to coexist on and around the moon, Nelson said. The space programs of both countries are also bonded, he said, by threats in space.

U.S. officials have said that Russia is developing a nuclear weapon that could be used in Earth orbit to destroy satellites and cripple key U.S. national security infrastructure used for missile warnings, reconnaissance and to guide precision munitions, among other things. Russia has denied that it intends to deploy a nuclear weapon in space.

Still, it ought to concern all nations with assets in space, Nelson said, and especially China, which operates not only a growing number of spacecraft that could be disabled by a nuclear blast but a crewed space station as well.

Speaking publicly on the threat for the first time, he said: “All nations should be concerned that Russia may intend to put a nuclear weapon on orbit. Such a capability could pose a threat to all satellites operated by countries and companies around the globe, as well as to the vital communications, scientific, meteorological, agricultural, commercial and national security services that we all depend on.”

He added that “this is an opening for the Chinese government, whose Chinese astronauts and space station would be threatened by the deploying of a Russian nuclear bomb in space. … They have an interest in Russia not putting up nuclear weapons. So would they utilize their position with Russia and the relationship between [Chinese President] Xi Jinping and [Russian President Vladimir] Putin to urge the Russians to rethink this?”

An installation of a nuclear weapon on orbit would be a violation of the 1967 Outer Space Treaty. And as China and Russia continue to rival the U.S. in space, NASA and the State Department have sought to lead a growing international coalition under what is known as the Artemis Accords, perhaps the most significant international space policy effort since the 1967 treaty.

In an effort to put pressure on China’s space program, which Nelson and others have criticized as operating secretly and as an arm of the military, signatories to the accords agree to abide by accepted norms of behavior in space and on and around the moon. Countries would be required to share scientific discoveries, for example, and detail where they are operating on the lunar surface and what they are doing.

In the meantime, NASA’s lunar campaign continues. This year, the space agency hopes that one of its commercial partners, Intuitive Machines, a Houston company, will land its second uncrewed spacecraft on the moon, with other privately developed landers to follow in the years to come. Earlier this year, its spacecraft became the first commercial vehicle to land on the moon and the first American spacecraft to touch down softly since the Apollo era.

But for all the talk about a space race with China, the astronauts who are part of the planned Artemis mission to fly around the moon in 2025 said they don’t quite see it that way.

The commander of the flight, NASA astronaut Reid Wiseman, said during a recent Washington Post Live event that, “We don’t feel like this is a race. We feel like this is just the right direction for exploration, and that’s the direction we’re headed in.”

He added: “But as an American, I do sense that there is building pressure.”

By Christian Davenport
Christian Davenport covers NASA and the space industry for The Washington Post's Financial desk. He joined The Post in 2000 and has served as an editor on the Metro desk and as a reporter covering military affairs. He is the author of "The Space Barons: Elon Musk, Jeff Bezos and the Quest to Colonize the Cosmos"