Turkey: TAI TFX Fighter Program

kunal1123

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Target date for TFX’s first flight still set at 2023
Bilal Khan -
3 minutes
Speaking to reporters in London on November 28, Turkey’s defence minister, Nurettin Canikli, reiterated that the maintaining the TFX’s maiden flight date for 2023 is the “primary goal” of the government.

The Turkish Aerospace Industries (TAI) TFX is intended to be Turkey’s 5th-generation fighter replacement for the Turkish Air Force’s (TuAF) F-16s. In January, Turkey signed a £100 million-plus deal with the U.K. government that would see BAE Systems assist in the design and development process over four years.

For the TFX, the major objective for the Turkish Undersecretariat for Defence Industries (SSM) is to decide on the fighter’s turbofan engine program. Rolls-Royce is hoping to secure the contract.

The U.K. defence giant partnered with the private Turkish company Kale Group to jointly develop and produce an original turbofan engine platform for the TFX. The joint-venture, which was named TAEC Uçak Motor Sanayi AS, is co-owned by Kale Group (51%) and Rolls-Royce (49%).

However, in his statements to the media, Defence Minister Canikli stated that Turkey will not depend on one country for the TFX, stating, “When you work with a single company, or when you depend on a single country, you could face different problems in certain stages of the project.”

Rolls-Royce – along with BAE Systems – is operating in Turkey under the U.K. government’s ‘Open General Export License’, which, according to the Daily Sabah, facilitates “the transfer of materials, software and technology to be employed in the national fighter jet TF-X project.”

Notes & Comments:

Potential competing engine partners could include the EuroJet Turbo GmbH Consortium, General Electric and Pratt & Whitney. In 2015, Turkish electronics giant Aselsan signed a memorandum-of-understanding (MoU) with EuroJet to “explore potential opportunities for business collaboration on Engine Control Units, Health and Usage Monitoring System and software developments projects relating to the EJ200 engine program.” Although Aselsan highlighted the possibility of EuroJet participating in the TFX, it is unclear if either side will expand the partnership in that direction.
 

kunal1123

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TAI lists official specifications of next-gen fighter TFX
Bilal Khan -
4-5 minutes

Turkish Aerospace Industries (TAI) has released the official specifications of the TFX, officially known as the Milli Muharebe Uçağı (National Combat Aircraft).

As listed on the TAI website, the TFX will have a maximum take-off weight (MTOW) of 27,215 kg, length of 19 m and wingspan of 12 m. It will use two turbofan engines, each with 9072 kgf in thrust output.

In terms of performance, the TFX is to have an operational radius of over 1,111 km and a flight ceiling of over 16,764 m (i.e. 55,000 ft). It will have a maximum speed of Mach 2. TAI did not release the maximum payload or empty take-off weight of the TFX.

In its statement for the TFX’s profile, TAI stated that the TFX “is envisaged … [to] work with F-35A planes planned to enter the inventory of the Turkish Air Force,” adding that TFX production will run until 2070.

Under Ankara’s policy of domestically sourcing defence equipment, TAI and its Turkish industry partners aim to manufacture the TFX’s low radar cross-section airframe, engine, munitions, situational awareness elements and it sensor fusion inputs indigenously in Turkey.

On November 28, Turkey’s Minister of Defence (MoD) Nurettin Canikli said that TAI, the MoD and Turkey’s Undersecretariat of Defence Industries (SSM) remained committed to achieving a maiden test flight for the TFX in 2023, stating it was the “primary goal” of the Turkish government.

In January, the TAI and the SSM awarded BAE Systems a contract worth over £100 million to help design the TFX. Under the four-year contract, BAE is to provide “400 man/years” of engineering consulting and technical support work to TAI. Upon its completion, BAE is expected to receive another contract to support the development of the TFX in Turkey.

In regards to the TFX turbofan engine program, the Turkish MoD emphasized that it was still looking at its options. Although the UK government has provided an ‘Open General Export License’ to Turkey, enabling Rolls-Royce to partner with the private Turkish company Kale Group to form TAEC Uçak Motor Sanayi AS.

Co-owned by Kale Group (51%) and Rolls-Royce (49%), TAEC was formed in May to develop and produce a turbofan engine in Turkey for the TFX. MSI Turkish Defence Review reported that Rolls-Royce will also train 350 Turkish engineers and utilize Turkish technical capacities as part of the development process.

However, the Turkish MoD told journalists that Turkey is not looking to depend on one country on the TFX program, stating, “When you work with a single company, or when you depend on a single country, you could face different problems in certain stages of the project.”

The Turkish defence publication C4Defence reported on December 15 that TUSAŞ Engine A.Ş. (TEI) – which is co-owned by TAI (50.5%), General Electric (46.2%) and the Turkish Armed Forces Foundation and Turkish Aeronautical Association (3.3%) – has also submitted its own engine proposal to the SSM.

Although it is not known how the TEI turbofan program is slated to manifest, it should be noted that TEI is undertaking its own design and development work as well as licensed manufacturing. For example, for the Turkish T-70 Black Hawk helicopter program, TEI will manufacture the General Electric (GE) T700-GE-701D turboshaft engine under license. However, TEI is also spearheading the development of a 1,400 shp turboshaft engine for the TAI T-625 utility helicopter and TAI ATAK-2 attack helicopter.
 

kunal1123

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ft.com
Turkey and UK battle to save fighter jet project
Laura Pitel in Ankara and Peggy Hollinger and David Bond in London June 13, 2018
6-7 minutes
  • UK wants to develop its trading relationship with Ankara
  • Turkish officials demand that Rolls-Royce shares sensitive technology
  • High-level ministerial discussions attempt to resolve issue
Turkish and UK ministers are battling to save a flagship partnership to develop a fifth generation fighter jet.

Rolls-Royce, the British aero-engine group, has been working with Turkish industrial giant Kale to bid for the engine development contract on the TF-X jet, an ambitious project to produce Turkey’s first indigenous combat aircraft.

A dispute has emerged over the role of a company with close ties to Qatar and Turkey’s President Recep Tayyip Erdogan.

The programme is a priority for President Erdogan, who wants to build a national defence industry to drum up nationalist support and reduce Turkey’s reliance on outsiders amid growing strains with many Nato allies.

It is also crucial for the UK, which wants to develop its trading relationship with Turkey and sees the partnership as key to preserving Britain’s ability to develop military aircraft given the dearth of UK fighter programmes once production of the Typhoon combat jet comes to an end in the mid 2020s.

Technology sharing raises concerns
On a visit to Turkey in January 2017, Theresa May said the fighter jet partnership marked “the start of a new and deeper trading relationship with Turkey and will potentially secure British and Turkish jobs and prosperity for decades to come”.

However, the project has run into problems after Turkish defence officials demanded that Rolls-Royce share sensitive technology with TR Motor, a company that is 55 per cent controlled by a subsidiary of BMC, a defence manufacturer whose major shareholders include the Qatari ministry of defence, and a businessman known for his links the Turkish president.

The fact this issue was discussed between the two ministers tells you how seriously this is being taken. Both sides remain committed to finding a resolution

“The UK government does not want to fully lift export controls. They say: ‘what if in 10 years’ time there is a huge row with another country and we want to stop selling this to them?’,” said a Turkish official.

Rolls-Royce executives and British ministers have told Turkey that they cannot accept an arrangement that would see TR Motor own and manage the intellectual property of the programme.

“There are strict parameters around the TF-X programme,” said a person familiar with the situation. “Rolls-Royce doesn’t want a potential competitor to take the IP away and use it outside this programme for their own benefit.”

Calls between Turkish and UK ministers were planned this week to discuss the issue. Gavin Williamson, Britain’s defence minister, also discussed it with his Turkish counterpart, Nurettin Canikli, on the fringes of a Nato meeting last week.

IP issue threatens Rolls-Royce deal
Should the two sides fail to reach an agreement, Rolls-Royce could be forced to pull out of the programme. This could call into question the role of BAE Systems, which last year signed a £100m contract with Turkish Aerospace Industries to help design the jet. About 200 BAE engineers are working with TAI in the UK and Turkey.

The UK Ministry of Defence said: “The fact this issue was discussed between the two ministers tells you how seriously this is being taken. Both sides remain committed to finding a resolution.”

Other people close to the subject insisted that progress was being made, and that both sides were determined to overcome the obstacles.

“This is all part of the normal process of development programmes at this stage. We have had productive commercial discussion and are maintaining an active dialogue,” Rolls-Royce said. A team from the company will travel to Ankara for further talks after the presidential and parliamentary elections on June 24.

During President Erdogan’s trip to London last month, the two sides appeared to have resolved the IP issue. An initial agreement was signed and a deadline was set for July 31 to finalise terms, including the sharing of technology and export conditions. However, Turkish officials later renewed their demand that TR Motor supervise the propulsion programme.

Turkey wants to retain full ownership
BMC produces vans, buses and military vehicles. It recently won the tender to produce the first fully Turkish-made battle tank.

The company is 49.9 per cent owned by the Qatari armed forces, Yasin Ozturk, a member of the board of directors, told Turkish defence magazine MSI in December. He said that a further 25 per cent was owned by Ethem Sancak, a Turkish business tycoon who once said in a newspaper he owned that after getting to know Mr Erdogan, he learnt that “divine love is possible between two men.”

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Osman Dur, general manager of BMC Power, the BMC subsidiary that is working on the TF-X programme, insisted that the project “will benefit the country”.

“All the IP and similar intellectual property rights gained within the scope of this project will remain in Turkey and belong to the SMM [the Turkish government’s under-secretariat for defence industries], which is providing the funding for the project,” he said.

A Turkish official with knowledge of the negotiations said that BMC had offered financial support for the TF-X programme, which Turkey estimates will cost $30bn in total. He said that Qatar’s involvement could also lead to future sales of the jet to the small Gulf state.

The official added: “For us, the whole point is that we want to own it. We are trying to become an independent defence producer. We don’t want restrictions imposed by outsiders.”

Letter in response to this article:
An alternative to the jet deal with Turkey / From Edward Longinotti, Stony Stratford, Bucks, UK
 

Kshithij

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Rolls Royce is likely to pull ut of the deal instead of giving the ToT of the engines to Turkey and Qatar. Now the question that arises is how will Turkey make a new engine when it has no engine developing ability, even older engines of 1980s.
 

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Dassault Systèmes chosen for Turkey’s largest aviation project

Dassault Systèmes has announced that Turkish Aerospace Industries has chosen the 3DEXPERIENCE platform to accelerate the development of the TF-X aircraft development project in Turkey.

The decision follows Turkish Aerospace’s comprehensive evaluation of solutions available on the market and the successful completion of a proof of concept.

Turkish Aerospace will use the Winning Program, Co-Design to Target, Test to Perform, Ready for Rate and Build to Operate industry solution experiences based on the 3DEXPERIENCE platform to develop its next generation, multirole aircraft from design through production. More than 2,000 project participants at Turkish Aerospace, its partners and suppliers will collaborate by relying on a single source of data across all digital design, engineering, simulation, manufacturing, business analytics and governance applications.

“The size of the TF-X Program presented us with an opportunity. We wanted to select a software solution suitable for this project that also allows us to streamline our business process with Aerospace best practices,” said Temel Kotil, president/CEO, Turkish Aerospace. “Dassault Systèmes’ 3DEXPERIENCE platform and its integrated applications convinced us of the need for taking a next step. Our company will gain extensive capabilities for aviation design, development and production, and be able to demonstrate its determination to accomplish large projects.”

“Aircraft development, considered one of the most technologically advanced projects in any industry, is growing more complex. As companies integrate sophisticated systems and technologies, they seek new ways to conceptualize, design, manufacture, test, certify and sustain products while collaborating across functions and geographies,” said David Ziegler, Vice President, Aerospace & Defense Industry, Dassault Systèmes. “The 3DEXPERIENCE platform provides them with the digital capabilities to accelerate such programs by up to 50 percent. Turkish Aerospace can therefore improve decision-making, reduce risks, and transform its end-to-end development.”

Dassault Systèmes will be attending the Farnborough International Airshow, Chalet B9, from July 16-20, 2018.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ae...ystemes-turkeys-largest-aviation-project/amp/
 

kunal1123

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General Electric beats Rolls-Royce to power Turkey’s indigenous fighter jet
Burak Ege Bekdil
2-3 minutes

ANKARA, Turkey — Turkey’s aerospace authorities have chosen General Electric’s F110 family of engines to power the prototype and an initial batch of what will become Turkey’s first indigenous fighter jet, the TF-X.

A senior procurement official confirmed the choice, saying that the twin-engine TF-X will be powered by the F110-GE-129 or the F110-GE-132 engine.

“This is a stopgap solution until we have built our indigenous engine for the TF-X,” the official said.

Under the deal, the first prototype of the TF-X and an unknown number of initial batches would be powered by the F110 engine.

Turkey then plans to switch to an engine to be developed by TRMotor, a national engine consortium.

But some aerospace sources say the F110 may not be the ideal engine for a fifth=generation fighter. “If the Turks go for the GE option, they will have to compromise on the stealth capabilities of the TF-X,” a Paris-based defense specialist said.

Earlier this year, Turkey and Rolls-Royce came close to a strategic cooperation deal for the development and co-production of an engine for the TF-X. The British company and the Turkish government signed a letter of intent to finalize negotiations on the engine program by July 31, but the plan did not come to fruition.

Turkish officials say the idea behind the GE deal is to rely on foreign technology to eventually in the long term build an indigenous engine to power the TF-X.


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Turkey wants to build the TF-X with know-how from BAE Systems. In January 2017, Britain and Turkey signed a deal worth more than £100 million (U.S. $128 million) to develop the Turkish fighter jet.

Turkey hopes to have the first test flights of the aircraft in 2023.
 

mattster

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Turkey does not have the technology base to build a true stealth fighter with a state of the art radar, sensors, networking and stealth. Its not just the engine that they need from the West......its practically all the avionics, weapons, and design experience........otherwise it would be a bogus stealth fighter like what China has, or what Russia is doing.
Even if they got outside help....they will spends decades trying to get it to work. The only country that could build a true stealth fighter outside of the US without any outside help is probably Dassault of France.
 

kunal1123

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Turkey presents a mockup of its new indigenous warplane TF-X at Paris Air Show....via Ali Özkök's Twitter Page...








Does form follow function or is this a copy of the F-35/F-22 on a smaller scale?

I just have to wonder how successful Turkey will be in development of a new fighter when they're so dependent on tech from the US and EU. If that's pulled away then they're in development trouble. Engines and avionics...especially with new tech coming online will see this project lagging. Even if they can overcome those obstacles it'll be behind the latest and greatest from the West.
...................................................................................................
 

Armand2REP

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Turkey does not have the technology base to build a true stealth fighter with a state of the art radar, sensors, networking and stealth. Its not just the engine that they need from the West......its practically all the avionics, weapons, and design experience........otherwise it would be a bogus stealth fighter like what China has, or what Russia is doing.
Even if they got outside help....they will spends decades trying to get it to work. The only country that could build a true stealth fighter outside of the US without any outside help is probably Dassault of France.
Turkey can't make anything without outside assistance. They either do license production or slap OTS components together. They don't actually make any of the components. If they suffered Iran style sanctions they would fall below that level.
 

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As it is planned, ASELSAN will not only supply radar for the aircraft, but other avionic components as well.
 

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TAI and HAVELSAN sign a cooperation agreement for National Combat Aircraft Project

President of Defense Industries, Prof. Dr. İsmail Demir stated an agreement on cooperation was signed between Turkish Aerospace Industries (TAI), running the development and production of the National Aircraft Combat, and HAVELSAN.

In the statement, President Demir also pointed out that they implemented the measures for the fight against Covid-19 at the highest level, now continuing to work on the development of National Combat Aircraft without taking any moment to pause. “ TAI and HAVELSAN will embark upon a number of things, from software development to training and maintenance simulators. When the project is finalized, Turkey will be one of 5 countries in posssession of the infrastructure and technology to produce a 5th generation combat aircraft, with other countries being USA, Russia and China.” İsmail Demir said.

The agreement on cooperation between TAI and HAVELSAN encompasses some provisions for Embedded Training/Simulation, Training and Maintenance Simulators and a range of other engineering supports (Virtual Test Environment, project-level software development and cyber security).

https://en.defenceturk.net/tai-and-...reement-for-national-combat-aircraft-project/
 

Steven Rogers

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TAI and HAVELSAN sign a cooperation agreement for National Combat Aircraft Project

President of Defense Industries, Prof. Dr. İsmail Demir stated an agreement on cooperation was signed between Turkish Aerospace Industries (TAI), running the development and production of the National Aircraft Combat, and HAVELSAN.

In the statement, President Demir also pointed out that they implemented the measures for the fight against Covid-19 at the highest level, now continuing to work on the development of National Combat Aircraft without taking any moment to pause. “ TAI and HAVELSAN will embark upon a number of things, from software development to training and maintenance simulators. When the project is finalized, Turkey will be one of 5 countries in posssession of the infrastructure and technology to produce a 5th generation combat aircraft, with other countries being USA, Russia and China.” İsmail Demir said.

The agreement on cooperation between TAI and HAVELSAN encompasses some provisions for Embedded Training/Simulation, Training and Maintenance Simulators and a range of other engineering supports (Virtual Test Environment, project-level software development and cyber security).

https://en.defenceturk.net/tai-and-...reement-for-national-combat-aircraft-project/
TAI will find assistance difficult in the current geo-political climate. Maybe Russia can help

mod edit: comment re-structured
 

airtel

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TAI will find assistance difficult in the current geo-political climate. Maybe Russia can help

mod edit: comment re-structured
Why Russia will provide assistance to a NATO member in creating a 5 Gen fighter jet which can be used against Russia or Russian allies ....and a jet which will become a rival of Russian 5th generation jet .
 

Steven Rogers

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Why Russia will provide assistance to a NATO member in creating a 5 Gen fighter jet which can be used against Russia or Russian allies ....and a jet which will become a rival of Russian 5th generation jet .
Good question,then their is S400 on Turkish soil....
 

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Okay so I will start the analysis if the TAI TFX as requested by the mokomon well accordingly to my sister the design of the aircraft emphasizes on mostly on as a weapons carry platforms as a inductor aircraft and strike aircrafts not as a air fighter air supervisory or dog fighter well the reason behind this in the engine as the Turkish design philosophy had an emphasis on that the stealth aircraft role would be of an stealth sniper not of a stealth dominator the engine they could develop or purchase could not be enough to provide enough thrust to weight ratio for to be a able dog fighter and the main role would be of mainly as I mentioned above the arcraft wing designed for an high angle of attack even it it is not meant to be a dog fighter it could be useful in a bombing role similar to the f 35 but they thought even the f 35 could have problem with its size and shape so they decided to design a aircraft with similar role with a different design philosophy with a more manurable aircraft for the BVRM tole not for close dog fight's but mostly it emphasizes is the the design gives a more prefarance to a BVRM's role as already emphasizes that they believe in a more combat to take place in the realm of BVRM's and pesb in the close proximity unlike our philosophy the aircraft has a shallow weapons bay but has enogh space to carry large bombs or missile's but a major problem that my sister reconigned was the placement of the air intake according to the current model of 1:1 full scale no DSI was shown that is good considering the layout of the air intake but some one would say it' air intake is similar to the the F 22's but it's not the shape size and placement is totally different from the f 22 air intakes and the aircraft engine is not decided this coul be a big challenge while they may have to completely re design the air intake if they changes the engine mid way as it could not be able to carry sufficient air flow to the engine well it is not meant to be a air superiority fighter accordingly to the TAI's but the sufficient flow of air is vital and while they have increased the length mig the intake from the front to the engine's which is now a necessary design element's for stealth aircraft's but their problem does not lie that much with the length of the air intake which is necessary for a stable supply of air in the intake but the layout of the front that could be a major case of concern the other part where the aircrafts lacks I would mention it later you think what is the problem with the dsi well it's the air that suck's into the intakes gets reduced so you need to create the air intake according to the size to your engine If your intake large bumps and smaller outlet compared to the dsi of f 35 to j 20's could mean low air will get at lower speed that could be the reason the tai have not designed the dsibintake for the aircraft well it ia an useful tool for stealth could be they thought that the dsi would have little effect on the stealth but the aircraft does not need to worry as it role is not meant to be agile fighter but rather as an stealth weapons carry platform but still the air intake position and the placement could hart and derail the whole aircrafts development if it ever take off from it's current place
 
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