Turkey shot down Russian Su 24

nirranj

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If I am in charge of Russia, I will not think about Turkey as of now. I will just deploy few more air dominance fighters, S400 batteries and issue a warning that we will defend our interests. Same as what Russia has done now.

No trade embargoes on Turkey. Trade embargoes are two sided swords that will hurt everyone. Instead I will force Turkey to accept more cost for the hydrocarbons and ask them to open up more fronts for Russian produce.

I will negotiate with Greece for stop over for Russian ships maneuvering in Mediterranean in exchange for a interest free loan and deployment of an S400 battalion in for safeguarding the air space as an add on option ;-)

I will also negotiate for deploying S400, lease an airbase for Russian long range flights, an agreement for port call of russian navy with Cyprus.

These will be effective ways rather than embargoes on Turkey!!!
 

tharikiran

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Great! I next April I plan to go to rest in Turkey. Now there will not be Russian tourists.
Be very careful. An ordinary Turkish guy may not know the difference between Ukrainian men/woman and an Russian one.
 

salute

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.................................................................
 

Akim

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Be very careful. An ordinary Turkish guy may not know the difference between Ukrainian men/woman and an Russian one.
Know the difference. In Antalya there are regular brawls between Russian and Ukrainian tourists. In Egypt (in Sharm El-Sheikh) also.
 

Screambowl

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The US was also silent when Turkey was bombing the Kurds, and has reportedly killed a few US citizens in the process. The US might be a great power, but it still needs to helplessly watch its citizens killed, for strategic benefits.
.
And in this case, Russia has managed to get all the diplomatic support. After the Paris crisis. Now US if intervenes directly, they will be in a bad position at international forum.

But US won't sit idle. If Russia manages to control the Syria , its a threat to US reputation. Or US would play it's card of psywar around the world. That, we supported Russians in Syria. :D
 

rockey 71

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Turkey won't apologize to Russia over downing of jet: Davutoglu
AP
Davutoglu told reporters Monday that "no Turkish prime minister or president will apologise ... because of doing our duty." — AFP/File
BRUSSELS: Turkey's Prime Minister says his country won't apologise to Russia for shooting down a warplane operating over Syria that crossed through Turkish airspace.

Ahmet Davutoglu also said Turkey also hopes that Moscow will reconsider economic sanctions it announced against Turkish interests in the wake of last week's incident.

Read: Turkish F-16s shoot down Russian warplane near Syrian border

Davutoglu told reporters Monday that "no Turkish prime minister or president will apologize ... because of doing our duty."

He spoke after a meeting with the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation (Nato) chief in Brussels and said Turkey remains open to talks with Russia about ways to avoid such incidents in the future.

Russian President Vladimir Putin's foreign affairs adviser has said the Russian leader hadn't taken calls from Turkey's president because there has been no Turkish apology.

Russia insists the plane did not intrude on Turkish airspace.

Turkey confirmed that it shot down a Russian warplane, claiming it had violated Turkish airspace and ignored repeated warnings. Russia denied that the plane crossed the Syrian border into Turkish skies. Russia said the Su-24 was downed by artillery fire, but Turkey claimed that its F-16s fired on the Russian plane after it ignored several warnings.

The incident is one of the most serious clashes between a Nato member country and Russia to have taken place for half a century.

Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan voiced regret over Turkey’s downing of a Russian warplane, saying his country was “truly saddened” by the incident and wished it hadn’t occurred.

Meanwhile, Erdogan had also said his country did not wish to escalate tensions with Russia over the downing of the plane.

Erdogan however defended his country's move to shoot down the plane saying “no one should expect Turkey to stay silent to border violations or the violation of its rights.”

Meanwhile Russia has already warned its nationals against visiting Turkey and stepped up controls of Turkish agricultural imports in the wake of the incident.

And Russia’s leaders have had harsh words for Ankara, with President Vladimir Putin deeming the plane’s downing a “stab in the back committed by accomplices of terrorists”.
 
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TFX

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Turks are really brave people who can shoot down a plane that connot defend against an incoming missile ... Those F-16's will run away with the very sight of SU-30 SM's...

Turkey should apologies quickly else it will be too late...
Yeah,just like the 600 dead Turkmens from the Turkmen village these defenceless pilots bombed last week?
Russia can wait a liftime for that apology.
 

TFX

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Turkey is a big hotspot of Russian tourists.

So after Egypt Turkey would lose big chunk of Tourist economy.
Have you ever seen any Russian tourists?
Do you know how they behave?
We dont need them.
 

rock127

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Have you ever seen any Russian tourists?
Do you know how they behave?
We dont need them.
May I know who is "we" here?

Can you introduce yourself? Introductions & Greetings

btw there is a contradicting statements that Russia has removed India from the "safe list" for it's tourists.Some news says it's not correct.
 

Scarface

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We is,Turkiye,im a Turk living in the Netherlands.
Hello and welcome
And you are a Turk nonetheless
Would love to get your opinion on all this.

Do you think it was justified for Turkey to shoot down the Plane ?

Also in your opinion is Turkey prepared in case of a Russian retaliation ?
 

TFX

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Hello and welcome
And you are a Turk nonetheless
Would love to get your opinion on all this.

Do you think it was justified for Turkey to shoot down the Plane ?

Also in your opinion is Turkey prepared in case of a Russian retaliation ?
After many warnings over two months not to violate Turkish airspace,we had to send a message and we did.
We are not some small baltic state,Poland,Ukraine or Georgia,we are a top ten world power,it has nothing to do with being arrogant or over confident,we know Russian power but Russia also knows not to mess with us.

We are always prepared due to our neighbourhood.
Russia would never dare to attack us directly, like Iran,they would use proxis,in this case,Russia would support the PKK(Turkiye)PYD,YPG(Syrian Kurds) with weapons and intel.
All that Russia can do is harm us economicly and only Turkish goods export to Russia would decline.
Russian tourists are replaced by the many Arab tourists,so no harm there.
In the end Russia will lose more then we will.
Btw,Russian travel agencies started using different routes for Russian tourists,via Kazakhistan,Turkmenistan,Azerbaijan to come to Turkiye.

There is an interesting article to read if you want,

Did Turkey overreact to Russia’s second-long violation? No!

he Russian Federation has a typical way of dealing with NATO member countries in security confrontations. Moscow does not directly and openly confront these countries but rather abuses the gray area in which certain encroachments are too insufficient as to require the invocation of Article 5 of the North Atlantic Treaty. Within this gray area, Russia commits a violation and then propagandizes to other NATO member countries not to regard the matter as a serious threat that would necessitate NATO involvement. Thus, using salami tactics, Russia expands its influence on the ground without directly confronting NATO all the while pushing ahead to attain its goals.

As it relates to Russia’s encounters with Turkey, Ankara had indeed enjoyed closer relations with Moscow, especially compared to its other NATO counterparts in Eastern Europe that are more familiar with Russia’s tactics. In fact, Turkey’s gradually developing relations with Russia, primarily on the basis of economic and energy cooperation, even became subject to criticism from Turkey’s Western allies. Turkey also chose to disregard its differences with Russia when it came to Syria and attempted to solve Russia’s minor violations with an appeasement policy.

Nonetheless, these cordial relations ended with Russia’s bold move to intervene in Syria in line with Iran, Assad, and Hezbollah. With this move, Russia showed its intention to choose strategic influence in the Middle East over its cordial relations with Turkey. This came to constitute a breaking point not only because the two countries’ differences in Syria peaked, but also because of Turkey’s eventual reception of Russia’s support for the PYD along with its violation of Turkish airspace as inimical. Considering such developments, Russian President Putin’s “stab in the back” rhetoric is indeed implausible.

Why did Turkey shoot down the Russian jet?

Following the downing of the jet, some experts evaluated the incident in terms of an overreaction on the part of Turkey. Certain contentions were voiced employing a line of argument that an airspace violation which only took seconds should not be reason for such a strong reaction. There was also news about NATO members suggesting that the Russian jet should have been escorted out of Turkish airspace as a softer alternative. Nonetheless, the issue is not about the duration of this single Russian violation; rather it is about the nature and prospects of Russian violations.

This is not the first and only time that Russia violated Turkish airspace. It had also done so last month. Turkey has already escorted Russian jets out of its airspace not only at the Syrian border but also above the Black Sea - in March this year. Russian missile systems have also harassed Turkish air forces in the past. In this way, it can be seen that Russian violations have come to exhibit an iterative and expanding quality that can be regarded as designed to test the limits. At some point Turkey had to stop this. Otherwise, Russia would continue to commit ever invasive violations.

What’s next?

After the crisis, further escalation would be between Russia and NATO rather than Russia and Turkey seeing that the latter took the matter to Brussels and provided solid evidence that the Russian aircraft indeed violated Turkey’s airspace. From this point on, NATO’s acquiescence of further Russian violations directed at Turkey would severely damage its deterrence capability. Thus, it is of low probability that Russia escalate tension to an all-out confrontation with NATO. In this sense, it is certain that diplomatic attempts to de-escalate the tension will take place. Such is rational and should be welcomed by all parties involved.

As Former US Ambassador to Russia Michael McFaul stated, Russia’s reaction will probably come in an asymmetric way. In terms of political reactions, Russia will focus on fighting ISIS in order to rally others against Turkey. Here, a growing international consensus that ISIS is the main target in Syria has become more apparent after the attacks in Beirut and Paris and the plane explosion in Sinai. Expectations for a united coalition against ISIS have even come to the fore. Thus, Russia will probably attempt to ride this wave in an attempt to drive Turkey into a corner. As Putin made certain accusations of Turkey’s relationship with ISIS after the event, it may be expected that this policy will deepen. Besides, Turkey may be accused of harming the possibility of Russian cooperation with West against ISIS. Russia will also probably push for Turkey’s isolation in the Syria talks, and increase its support for Assad and the PYD. Nonetheless, Russia has already more or less walked this line up until now.

http://www.turkishweekly.net/2015/1...erreact-to-russia-s-second-long-violation-no/
 

Scarface

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After many warnings over two months not to violate Turkish airspace,we had to send a message and we did.
We are not some small baltic state,Poland,Ukraine or Georgia,we are a top ten world power,it has nothing to do with being arrogant or over confident,we know Russian power but Russia also knows not to mess with us.

We are always prepared due to our neighbourhood.
Russia would never dare to attack us directly, like Iran,they would use proxis,in this case,Russia would support the PKK(Turkiye)PYD,YPG(Syrian Kurds) with weapons and intel.
All that Russia can do is harm us economicly and only Turkish goods export to Russia would decline.
Russian tourists are replaced by the many Arab tourists,so no harm there.
In the end Russia will lose more then we will.
Btw,Russian travel agencies started using different routes for Russian tourists,via Kazakhistan,Turkmenistan,Azerbaijan to come to Turkiye.

There is an interesting article to read if you want,

Did Turkey overreact to Russia’s second-long violation? No!

he Russian Federation has a typical way of dealing with NATO member countries in security confrontations. Moscow does not directly and openly confront these countries but rather abuses the gray area in which certain encroachments are too insufficient as to require the invocation of Article 5 of the North Atlantic Treaty. Within this gray area, Russia commits a violation and then propagandizes to other NATO member countries not to regard the matter as a serious threat that would necessitate NATO involvement. Thus, using salami tactics, Russia expands its influence on the ground without directly confronting NATO all the while pushing ahead to attain its goals.

As it relates to Russia’s encounters with Turkey, Ankara had indeed enjoyed closer relations with Moscow, especially compared to its other NATO counterparts in Eastern Europe that are more familiar with Russia’s tactics. In fact, Turkey’s gradually developing relations with Russia, primarily on the basis of economic and energy cooperation, even became subject to criticism from Turkey’s Western allies. Turkey also chose to disregard its differences with Russia when it came to Syria and attempted to solve Russia’s minor violations with an appeasement policy.

Nonetheless, these cordial relations ended with Russia’s bold move to intervene in Syria in line with Iran, Assad, and Hezbollah. With this move, Russia showed its intention to choose strategic influence in the Middle East over its cordial relations with Turkey. This came to constitute a breaking point not only because the two countries’ differences in Syria peaked, but also because of Turkey’s eventual reception of Russia’s support for the PYD along with its violation of Turkish airspace as inimical. Considering such developments, Russian President Putin’s “stab in the back” rhetoric is indeed implausible.

Why did Turkey shoot down the Russian jet?

Following the downing of the jet, some experts evaluated the incident in terms of an overreaction on the part of Turkey. Certain contentions were voiced employing a line of argument that an airspace violation which only took seconds should not be reason for such a strong reaction. There was also news about NATO members suggesting that the Russian jet should have been escorted out of Turkish airspace as a softer alternative. Nonetheless, the issue is not about the duration of this single Russian violation; rather it is about the nature and prospects of Russian violations.

This is not the first and only time that Russia violated Turkish airspace. It had also done so last month. Turkey has already escorted Russian jets out of its airspace not only at the Syrian border but also above the Black Sea - in March this year. Russian missile systems have also harassed Turkish air forces in the past. In this way, it can be seen that Russian violations have come to exhibit an iterative and expanding quality that can be regarded as designed to test the limits. At some point Turkey had to stop this. Otherwise, Russia would continue to commit ever invasive violations.

What’s next?

After the crisis, further escalation would be between Russia and NATO rather than Russia and Turkey seeing that the latter took the matter to Brussels and provided solid evidence that the Russian aircraft indeed violated Turkey’s airspace. From this point on, NATO’s acquiescence of further Russian violations directed at Turkey would severely damage its deterrence capability. Thus, it is of low probability that Russia escalate tension to an all-out confrontation with NATO. In this sense, it is certain that diplomatic attempts to de-escalate the tension will take place. Such is rational and should be welcomed by all parties involved.

As Former US Ambassador to Russia Michael McFaul stated, Russia’s reaction will probably come in an asymmetric way. In terms of political reactions, Russia will focus on fighting ISIS in order to rally others against Turkey. Here, a growing international consensus that ISIS is the main target in Syria has become more apparent after the attacks in Beirut and Paris and the plane explosion in Sinai. Expectations for a united coalition against ISIS have even come to the fore. Thus, Russia will probably attempt to ride this wave in an attempt to drive Turkey into a corner. As Putin made certain accusations of Turkey’s relationship with ISIS after the event, it may be expected that this policy will deepen. Besides, Turkey may be accused of harming the possibility of Russian cooperation with West against ISIS. Russia will also probably push for Turkey’s isolation in the Syria talks, and increase its support for Assad and the PYD. Nonetheless, Russia has already more or less walked this line up until now.

http://www.turkishweekly.net/2015/1...erreact-to-russia-s-second-long-violation-no/
I see,that's your stand.However I still fail to see how it wasn't an overreaction to shoot down the Russian plane especially when Turkish planes have violated Greek airspace more than two thousand times in just the last year,none were shot down.

Similarly Russian planes have been violating Israeli airspace who doesn't or perhaps I should say didn't share as cordial relations with Russia as Turkey did and yet the Israelis have been co-operating with the Russians,

Not to mention the fact that the airspace violation only lasted 17 seconds,that's far too less of a timeframe and I doubt it constitutes a fair amount ofwarning.

Don't get me wrong , I am sure you'd expect a lot of Russian fanboys but I'm no blind fanboy but even so it seems that Turkey escalated a situation and this could have been avoided
 

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TFX

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Turkish planes have violated Greek airspace more than two thousand times in just the last year,none were shot down.
Do you know the Aegean Sea,Greece has many islands situated one or two miles from the Turkish mainland,violation of airspace happens all the time from both sides,Greece claims a 12 mile zone and we dont accept that.
But,how can you compare a violation in peace time(Greece and Turkiye) to a war-zone?
Syria downed our F-4 not so long ago,after that incident,the code of conduct has changed for the airforce,Russia knew this and still did it(on purpose)

My guess is that it was a set up from both sides.
Russia wanted to place a S-400 defence system in Syria,this is a reason.
NATO wanted to show Russia not to get cocky like it owns the place,they used Turkiye for that.
Either way,the Turkish armed forces is no push over and all sides know this,Russia cant attack us like they did to Ukraine and Georgia
 

Scarface

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Do you know the Aegean Sea,Greece has many islands situated one or two miles from the Turkish mainland,violation of airspace happens all the time from both sides,Greece claims a 12 mile zone and we dont accept that.
But,how can you compare a violation in peace time(Greece and Turkiye) to a war-zone?
Syria downed our F-4 not so long ago,after that incident,the code of conduct has changed for the airforce,Russia knew this and still did it(on purpose)

My guess is that it was a set up from both sides.
Russia wanted to place a S-400 defence system in Syria,this is a reason.
NATO wanted to show Russia not to get cocky like it owns the place,they used Turkiye for that.
Either way,the Turkish armed forces is no push over and all sides know this,Russia cant attack us like they did to Ukraine and Georgia
I do know about the geographic relationship between Turkey and Greece but how is it relevant, my point was airspace violations happen and escalation should be avoided. 17 seconds hardly seems like a fair warning period.

As for your point about a war zone and peace time violation,

Wasn't it a Russian Airforce Aircraft that violated Turkish airspace ? And Turkey and Russia were at peace before the downing were they not , if it was a Syrian aircraft then maybe such a reaction would have been justified.

It's no secret to Turkey that Russian aircraft were operating in Syria,they should have taken it into consideration.

Anyway good to have your stand on this issue and yes Turkey commands a formidable defense both military and a geographic advantage and would prove quite the challenge to Russians

That we can agree on
 

pmaitra

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  • Turkey has been violating Syrian border by pushing in terrorists for the past one year.
  • Turkey has been trading oil with ISIS violating the Syrian border.
  • There is no evidence that the Russian plane crossed into Turkish airspace.
  • There is evidence that the plane crashed inside Syrian territory.
Bottom line, Russia now has a reason to shoot down a Turkish plane even if it falls inside Turkish territory.
 

bose

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Yeah,just like the 600 dead Turkmens from the Turkmen village these defenceless pilots bombed last week?
Russia can wait a liftime for that apology.
There will be more bombing of Turkmen villages until that Turkish terrorist Erdoğan stop supporting the Jihadi terrorists like ISIS and Al Nusra etc etc...

Those brave Turkish stopped all flight over Syria seeing those S300 / S400...
 
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