The Root Of India-Pakistan Conflicts

[Ray]

Here is something you should know

Verse 127 says that Abraham and Ishmael built the Kaaba. Verse 125 claims that the Kaaba was the house of God since Abraham's time.

However, according to other historical accounts Abraham never traveled to the Arabian Peninsula. The Bible teaches that Abraham was called from Haran to the land of Canaan (see Genesis 12) and there built an alter to God in the land promised to him and his offspring.

The Biblical account in Genesis never mentions Abraham traveling to the Arabian Peninsula, nor does it say that he and Ishmael built the Kaaba.

If the Quranic account was true the Jews would have sanctified the Kaaba long before Mohamed's time. Moreover, history does not support the Kaaba's antiquity or its connection to Abraham. Historical evidence indicates that the Kaaba was simply a pagan temple used to worship Saturn.

In fact, the Kaaba in Mecca is only one of many. There were approximately 20 Kaaba-style temples in surrounding Arab lands including: Al- Lat House, Najran Kaaba, the Shaddad Kaaba, Ghatfan Kaaba and the Du-Khesla House (The Kaaba in Yemen).

Before Mohamed's time a poet named Zohair Ibn Abi Salma mentions that the ones who built the Kaaba came from the Quraish tribe. His poem reads: "I swear by the house, which the people turn around, who also built it, the Quraish and the Georhem." (The Georhem was a tribe that lived around Mecca at the same time as the Quraish

That puts paid to this

Sahih Bukhari Volume 2, Book 26; #673:
|| Narrated Salim that his father said: I saw Allah's Apostle arriving at Mecca; he kissed the Black Stone Corner first while doing Tawaf and did ramal in the first three rounds of the seven rounds (of Tawaf).

The Shiv Linga is also a black stone!

Remember We made the House a place of assembly for men and a place of safety; and take ye the station of Abraham as a place of prayer; and We covenanted with Abraham and Isma'il, that they should sanctify My House for those who compass it round, or use it as a retreat, or bow, or prostrate themselves (therein in prayer).
Qur'an 2:125

 

[Ray]

@UsmanWrites

Please stop your tomfoolery.

In India, we respect all religions and also know that no religion is without areas that can be questioned.

Therefore, I am pained to educate you about your own religion and its contradictions ( as would be there for all religions) since I have no desire to hurt (not heart) good Muslims who wish to live without religions being sullied in juvenile satisfaction of scoring brownie points.

You seem to be juvenile steeped in the falsehood taught in Pakistan. But it is time to realise that the world is far more educated and aware than those in cloistered hibernation in a land called Pakistan that is so obtuse in thinking that they find their own to be enemies and massacre each other.

And you hector us?

What temerity!

What false arrogance and insolence.

Now to see how Islam functions in Pakistan, go to the Mosque on Friday (Jumma), pray and if you return in one piece and are not blown up, thank Allah for small mercies.

 

[sorcerer]

Every religion have some extremists who intetpret religion in wrong way but it doesn't mean that religion should be viewed from the extremist eyes!

For instance in Hinduism can you jutify the concept of Satti? Why you people kill woman when her husband die?

How can you jutify the concept of Achoot/ lower class people?

The role model for you guys is Sita who proved her fidelity to her husband by walking through flames?

And Cow is something very sacred to you how can anmial be sacred infront of human intellect. You talked about logic now prove this logically?

I didn't want to heart your sentiments and I don't interpret Hinduism throug such narrow definitions so you guys should do the same when it comes to Islam!

Sati was stopped and nothing of that took place for over many decades... Welcome to the 21st century buddy. but blasphemy and rules like woman being lesser in front of males still continue in your land. You can wiki it!!

What is the concept of cast system like Sunni/Shia /xyz etc ? A system was in place and fragments of it still exist.But in front of the Indian constitution everyone is the same. The law of the land protects all man or woman.

Seems like you dont have much grasp of the ancient history of our land. Any way she doesnt have to undertake a trial in front of 6 supposed noble men as witness. My intention is epics have their way of dramatisation of events. Epic remains epic and is not carried into the way of life of today. See, Hinduism has adapted and evloved with time.We very well understand facts from fiction. The symbolic act of Sita walking through fire was the 'projection' that Indian woman regard herself and her conduct very high in society and her conducts are without doubt.

ITs not about cow, any being which is living, be it tree or cow or an ant is repected in our society. Its an offshoot from the concept of Atman.The soul. Soul less people cant understand the concept of life, karma and all.
Cow , bull, etc are animals that are closely associated with way of life in ancient traditions. Any animal, that supported a family was given respect. Its respect for a life which aide in support of another life(here human life). Deep rooted in our tradition are the basic concept of Thankfulness' i.e being thankful.

From across the border that sees backstabbing, vengence and fanatism as way of life - thankfulness will hinder the way to fanatism.

Hinduism is never a narrow definition. Its so damn broad, the world understands it, and exactly the reason why we are welcome everywhere. Just becuase you dont get to see the light of the world from your pit of discent doesent mean that the sun dont shine outside your ignorance.

 

[maomao]

Man, are all pakis this dumb and drenched in islamism or there are some sane pakis (not oldies but young pakis). It seems like ISI and PA finally had one success in their lifetime i.e. creating a zombie army of brain-dead pakis.....really - lies and wet-dreams sugar coated with islam is a potent zombie making recipe!

 

[Ray]

It indicates that @UsmanWrites is a total bogus character that spews fake and ersatz poppycock that is all poop and no pop.

He has not made a comeback to defend his rather foolish and spurious claim that Islam is the most modern religion.

Sadly for him 'modern' is modern, if we were still in the Medieval times and living in a total timewrap.

I am not being obtuse or offensive, but I would be surprised if Islam has changed to suit contemporary times, when the religious scriptures, as is being bandied by the Maulanas and Maulvis of India and the world, still holds good that what was stated and done in the Medieval times continue to be modern and contemporary today.

All other religious have changed to be relevant to the times, including Catholicism, which too was high steeped in dogma.

 

[tarunraju]

The root of India-Pakistan conflict is not Kashmir, it's not even Pakistan's belief in the "shoddy" implementation of the 2-nation theory, it's ideology. Pakistani ideology is conquest of all of South Asia, and conversion of all its people to Sunni-Islam. There won't be peace in the region, even if India hands over 100% of J&K and Sir Creek to Pakistan. Pakistan will continue to weaken India until it ceases to exist. Or at least, that's the fvcked up idea, which drives Pakistan's existence. Pakistan's demand for Kashmir is not a security-seeking one, as Christine Fair rightly puts it. It's a greedy demand, which means that Pakistan will not stop at Kashmir, which in turn means that this whole "Kashmir dialogue" is one big ocean of bullshit. India will never hand over Kashmir, Pakistan will never hand over PoK, neither side will make concessions, and so on. The dialogue is a waste of time and money, and the sooner both sides realize that, and mutate the LoC to something more meaningful, like an International border, the better.

 

[sgarg]

@tarunraju, you have a valid point. However do not expect Pakistan to accept this. The reason is simply the false notion on which State of Pakistan was created. Pakistan can never be a normal State.

I personally think that Pakistan will self-destruct like USSR soon. One more war with India is very likely after which sapped Generals (if any are left) will simply give up.

 

[tarunraju]

I personally think that Pakistan will self-destruct like USSR soon. One more war with India is very likely after which sapped Generals (if any are left) will simply give up.

I won't hold my breath for that. Just as certain banks are "too big to fail," the Pakistani state is "too strategic to fail." The west will continue to stabilize the Pakistani state, each time it's at the precipice. They will not, however, strengthen it. The west doesn't care about the well-being of the Pakistani people. They just don't want a situation where warlords are fighting over state assets like the nuclear arsenal.

The only way one can get Pakistan to disarm its nuclear arsenal is admitting it into something big, like a NATO-styled security pact, in which any attack by an adversary will be met by retaliation by all its member-states, including some which are nuclear-armed.

 

[sgarg]

I doubt West will save Pakistan. The West is only good at leaving mess behind. You have already seen the ruins of Iraq, Libya etc.

The only country that may step up is China. However I seriously doubt the ability of China to stabilize Pakistan.

Pakistan has already reached a point where its utility to West is questionable.

There is nothing much that Pakistan gives to USA for example, that it needs. Pakistan's role in middle-east is disposable as well.

I think India can reduce Pakistan's utility to China by offering connectivity to China from Indian ports. However I doubt if Indian leaders have this kind of foresight.

 

[UsmanWrites]

I can surely defend Islam as it is most modern religion on earth but currently busy in preparation of my exam. Please read " reconstruction of religious thought in Islam " by Allama Iqbal it will surel answer all your queries or follow this link!

 

[UsmanWrites]

http://www.cssforum.com.pk/showthread.php?t=96502

 

[Srinivas_K]

I can surely defend Islam as it is most modern religion on earth but currently busy in preparation of my exam. Please read " reconstruction of religious thought in Islam " by Allama Iqbal it will surel answer all your queries or follow this link!

If Islam is most modern religion, The why are muslims backward ??

except Turkey where most of them are secular!!

Allama Iqbal may have some good thoughts , But most of the Muslims follow Arab brand Islam and violence !!

 

[sesha_maruthi27]

I doubt West will save Pakistan. The West is only good at leaving mess behind. You have already seen the ruins of Iraq, Libya etc.

The only country that may step up is China. However I seriously doubt the ability of China to stabilize Pakistan.

Pakistan has already reached a point where its utility to West is questionable.

There is nothing much that Pakistan gives to USA for example, that it needs. Pakistan's role in middle-east is disposable as well.

I think India can reduce Pakistan's utility to China by offering connectivity to China from Indian ports. However I doubt if Indian leaders have this kind of foresight.

If this ever happens them "pakistan is finished for good".....

 

[UsmanWrites]

If Islam is most modern religion, The why are muslims backward ??

except Turkey where most of them are secular!!

Allama Iqbal may have some good thoughts , But most of the Muslims follow Arab brand Islam and violence !!

You are right! Most Muslims are misguided but change is bound to happen and Pakistan is taking stride forward though slowly and I'm sure rest of Muslim Umaah will follow

 

[Ashutosh Lokhande]

You are right! Most Muslims are misguided but change is bound to happen and Pakistan is taking stride forward though slowly and I'm sure rest of Muslim Umaah will follow

you sure?
the way you guyz are blowing yourself up in public i dont think many would be left to change

 

[UsmanWrites]

you sure?
the way you guyz are blowing yourself up in public i dont think many would be left to change

Media highlights only negative points and change is evolutionary not revolutionary so it will take time....

 

[Srinivas_K]

You are right! Most Muslims are misguided but change is bound to happen and Pakistan is taking stride forward though slowly and I'm sure rest of Muslim Umaah will follow

Dude !!

The issue lies with the teachings you people go through and the lies which were told !!

Add to that the hatred that is being transplanted in the name of religion.

Rest of Muslim Ummah have a clear cut idea about Islam and ideology, Pakistan's case is different.

Pakistan is full of contradictions.

1) Identity crisis

2) Science or Religion contradiction

3) Army dictatorship or democracy contradiction

4) Liberal or conservative contradiction

5) Native culture and Arabic Tradition contradiction


When you come out of college and see what the world is , You will realize the difference between what you have read in Pakistani texts and the reality, That will become another contradiction.

 

[UsmanWrites]

Dude !!

The issue lies with the teachings you people go through and the lies which were told !!

Add to that the hatred that is being transplanted in the name of religion.

Rest of Muslim Ummah have a clear cut idea about Islam and ideology, Pakistan's case is different.

Yes! We have identified that! Our curriculum is changing! Moreover electronic media and social network is liberating our society but pained to see that you are going backward by following Modi Nationalist agenda- this same agenda destroyed Pakistan

 

[Srinivas_K]

Media highlights only negative points and change is evolutionary not revolutionary so it will take time....

Those things already exists in your society, Media only gave importance in the recent times.

 

[Srinivas_K]

Yes! We have identified that! Our curriculum is changing! Moreover electronic media and social network is liberating our society but pained to see that you are going backward by following Modi Nationalist agenda- this same agenda destroyed Pakistan

You have seen the rule of Modi for about 5 to 6 months now.

Did you feel there is any issue??

BJP which is a right wing nationalistic party ruled in the past also, These guys come under right center.