The Atheism/Agnosticism Thread

[civfanatic]

Is that how your most rational brain is explaining the technology of the ancient days. Why were the great scientists of our day not able to explain how the stone henge was built or why were they not able to explain the Indus valley civilization which was far more advanced and what about Phaistos Disc and The first stone calendar and 300 million year old iron screw and Teotihuacan, Mexico....................the list goes on and on

WTF?

Ancient Indians were a space-faring civilization with nuclear weapons, spaceships, and beam weaponry. Happy?

 

[happy]

Absolute morality is BS.

Its the same as Absolute Idealism. In my opinion, only God has that power.

 

[happy]

WTF?

Ancient Indians were a space-faring civilization with nuclear weapons, spaceships, and beam weaponry. Happy?

Ancient rocket ship in Japan which is dated to be older than 5000 BC. Dont be moronic. Just so you dont know doesn't mean its not there.

 

[civfanatic]

Ancient rocket ship in Japan which is dated to be older than 5000 BC. Dont be moronic. Just so you dont know doesn't mean its not there.

Oh God, you're actually serious.

I'm sorry, my knowledge is too feeble to be in the company of such great minds. I must excuse myself from this discussion.

 

[Dovah]

Ancient rocket ship in Japan which is dated to be older than 5000 BC. Dont be moronic. Just so you dont know doesn't mean its not there.

Dude, don't......

 

[happy]

Dude, don't......

Well, atleast search the internet before you reply. 13 World Mysteries Without Explanation | Beyond Science

 

[happy]

Oh God, you're actually serious.

I'm sorry, my knowledge is too feeble to be in the company of such great minds. I must excuse myself from this discussion.

Yes. I am serious. 13 World Mysteries Without Explanation | Beyond Science

If those things in the link are wrong correct me.

 

[Bodhi]

A human who has suffered extensive brain damage and has entered a chronic coma has no "consciousness". It is not possible for a human to experience consciousness without a brain, because like all other phenomena, consciousness is nothing more than a result of physical interaction between matter. In particular, it is the neurological interactions in the brain between the thalamus and the cerebral cortex which allow a human being to experience consciousness. When the thalamus of the brain is seriously damaged, the result is a loss of consciousness, i.e. a coma. A comatose patient has no self-awareness, cannot respond to external stimuli, and cannot initiate physical actions on his/her own accord.

You are defining the word consciousness in materialistic terms hence of course consciousness to many scientists is only blips on a screen or measured brain activity which is absolutely filled with holes when one considers it philosophically from a Buddhist perspective. However I for one admit I do not have very strong background in biology and as I have conceded earlier: the materialistic view appears logical but I refuse to believe "survival of the fittest" which materialism teaches us.

Regarding availability of scientific data: I don't know of any religion that has amassed so much knowledge on inner sciences as a Buddhist. We nowadays tend to look at science based on measurable, quantitative data however in ancient India, spiritual intuition and discovery were equally valued. It is this "science" which Siddhata Gotama and others generated (and they built upon such wisdom that already existed from the Jains and Upanishadic sages) which led them to conclude on the truth of reincarnation.

 

[Dovah]

Well, atleast search the internet before you reply. 13 World Mysteries Without Explanation | Beyond Science

That website. Come on man.

 

[Known_Unknown]

eh? I was actually thinking most ahtheists would be the opposite, enjoy life to the fullest, most atheists (okay not that I've had profound philosophical discussions with them, and most of them are xtians) tend to be like that.

Okay....so in an ideal world, then, every one should just commit suicide? I dont understand..so life is useless and suicide is okay? And if you truly believe that, then you wouldnt be here .

In an ideal world everyone would be free of religious dogma. Whether someone wants to commit suicide or not is their own wish. As I mentioned, there is indeed no objective purpose or meaning to life, if there is, please explain it to me. Suicide is okay-but that does not mean I encourage mass suicides. Each person has to take that decision himself after considering the benefits and pitfalls of dying. For example in the case of a patient with terminal illness, suicide could be a very attractive option to the alternative of slowly losing control of his body, his senses and his dignity.

 

[happy]

That website. Come on man.

I dont get you. Whats wrong with the website? IS THE INFO THERE WRONG ?? If yes, pray enlighten me.

 

[Bodhi]

What is your point? Are you challenging the notion that Magadha in the 6th century B.C.E. was a very religious society overall, or that Buddha believed in karma/reincarnation? The modern inhabitants of Magadha are extremely religious even today, and comparatively few are atheists, rationalists, and/or materialists. It does not not matter what exactly they believed in, as long as they were religious, which they undoubtedly were.

The Sutta Pitaka mentions that materialism was quite widespread in ancient Magadha. I think its futile to compare Magadh of today and 2500 years ago.

I do not consider myself a follower of Buddha Dhamma, and I am certainly not an anagarika. My conception of "dharma" is not identical with the dhamma of Buddhists.

However, I have great respect for Buddha Dhamma, and I would much rather have India be a Buddhist country than a "Hindu" country.

Sadhu Sadhu Sadhu! I appreciate your honesty in saying you are not a Buddhist as being an atheist/materialist and Buddhist are simply incompatible. It ticks me off when Western "Buddhists" like Stephen Batchelor try to distort Buddha's message by "secularizing" Buddhism and giving people the impression that "true" Buddhism is just refined atheism.

 

[Dovah]

I dont get you. Whats wrong with the website? IS THE INFO THERE WRONG ?? If yes, pray enlighten me.

1. The info there is just some text. The website is not credible.
2. Burden of proof is on them.
3. Thousands of such theories have been debunked thoroughly.

 

[happy]

1. The info there is just some text. The website is not credible.
2. Burden of proof is on them.
3. Thousands of such theories have been debunked thoroughly.

To have credibility to your first 2 points, the 3rd should provide proofs. Give links pls to your 3rd point.

 

[Known_Unknown]

You are absolutely wrong. According to your argument, the devil should be tormenting only one other person....but as you will certainly agree good is happening to many people and bad is happening to many more people. So unless the devil is omnipresent he cannot torment many people at the same time. So as there is GOOD and EVIL, GOD and DEVIL also co-exist.

The Devil could be tormenting a group of people at a time and not tormenting another group of people. If I decide to take a bite of an apple, I would instantly devour millions of bacteria which would suffer horrible deaths in the acidic environment of my stomach. At the same time, the bacteria on the rest of the apple would be unharmed. I don't have to be omnipresent to cause the suffering of millions at once. Unless I ate each and every bit of that apple, some bacteria may escape death altogether and end up in a dustbin, and eventually, a landfill instead where they would feed on other garbage and multiply many zillion fold.

Similarly, some people endure hardships throughout their lives, some a mixture of hardship and good fortune, and others, unbridled luck like for example the European and Middle-Eastern royals.

The presence of an omnipresent, omnipotent and omniscient God excludes such a large variation in the misery, suffering and good fortune of different people. If God actively causes suffering, he should be cursed and denounced and if he's just a passive spectator, then there's no point in praying to him.

On the other hand if God does intervene from time to time, then his refusal to intervene in circumstances which are clearly tragic and which have occurred through no fault of a victim renders him an unjust God, and injustice cannot be worshipped.

 

[happy]

The Devil could be tormenting a group of people at a time and not tormenting another group of people. If I decide to take a bite of an apple, I would instantly devour millions of bacteria which would suffer horrible deaths in the acidic environment of my stomach. At the same time, the bacteria on the rest of the apple would be unharmed. I don't have to be omnipresent to cause the suffering of millions at once. Unless I ate each and every bit of that apple, some bacteria may escape death altogether and end up in a dustbin, and eventually, a landfill instead where they would feed on other garbage and multiply many zillion fold.

On the other hand if God does intervene from time to time, then his refusal to intervene in circumstances which are clearly tragic and which have occurred through no fault of a victim renders him an unjust God, and injustice cannot be worshipped.

Even according to your argument, the bacteria is microscopic and you are what 100 zillion times larger?? So in essence, God / Devil is 100 zillion times larger than you are such that he can target a whole hemispere of the earth which again makes him omnipresent.

And how can you judge God by just seeing things that are appearing at first sight. IMO God does not cause anybody hardship and God is just. It is an individuals own sin which causes suffering and how can you blame God for that ??? Those seemingly tragic circumstances might have been a result of the sin committed earlier without you knowing??? Newborn babies also bear the sin of their parents. So nobody is worthy to question God.

 

[Known_Unknown]

My religious beliefs do not include a belief in any creator since that is contradictory. However I REFUSE to see myself as just a vehicle for my genes with my sole purpose in life is to have children. I know it is logical to believe that but I trust the wisdom of even greater men than modern scientists like Lord Buddha who categorically rejected the materialistic philosophy of Ajita Keshakhambalin and others. Many great meditation masters after years of solemn practice have seen what they were in their previous births. Scientists have tried again and again to prove that consciousness ceases with the death of the brain and have come up with nothing. Indian civilization is based on belief of karma and reincarnation. If one ceases to believe that, then you are indirectly saying our thousands of year old culture is bogus.

You can refuse to accept the truth, but therefore the truth does not change. As for consciousness instead of relying on the "wisdom" of men that lived thousands of years ago, maybe you should acquaint yourself with the progress modern science has made in deciphering this concept:


You will be surprised with the cases and studies mentioned here. Not only is consciousness not "personal", consciousness can be totally detached from oneself, and specific regions of the brain light up in specific patterns when these effects are being experienced. It is hence possible to look at those regions of the brain (for example in patients that are unable to respond to external stimuli) and determine what their individual conscious experience is like.

As for karma and reincarnation etc, that is all hogwash.

 

[happy]

You can refuse to accept the truth, but therefore the truth does not change. As for consciousness instead of relying on the "wisdom" of men that lived thousands of years ago, maybe you should acquaint yourself with the progress modern science has made in deciphering this concept:

Absolutely right regarding Truth.

As for your modern science, it is just pitifully limited I say.

Luminescense Still Mystery to Science | Modern Mechanix Well, hope your modern science is able to decipher this mystery.

 

[Dovah]

To have credibility to your first 2 points, the 3rd should provide proofs. Give links pls to your 3rd point.

I have no idea what that sentence even meant. Anyone could write random stufdf on the internet without any logic, doesn't make it true.

Anyway, I'll try to debunk the obvious BS on that cringeworthy website.

Pyramid power


Teotihuacan, Mexico. Embedded in the walls of this ancient Mexican city are large sheets of mica. The closest place to quarry mica is located in Brazil, thousands of miles away. Mica is now used in technology and energy production so the question raised is why did the builders go to such extremes to incorporate this mineral into the building of their city.

Were these ancient architects harnessing some long forgotten source of energy in order to power their city?

Every single sentence on this "Mod verified, $420% Albert Einstein approved true story" is convoluted logic or total BS.

1. Mica is abundant.
2. Mica has been used since pre-historic times by the humans.
3. Mica is not used only for power generation.

Fossilized giant

The fossilized Irish giant from 1895 is over 12 feet tall. The giant was discovered during a mining operation in Antrim, Ireland. This picture is courtesy "the British Strand magazine of December 1895"³ Height, 12 foot 2 inches; girth of chest, 6 foot 6 inches; length of arms 4 foot 6 inches. There are six toes on the right foot

This one is a very famous hoax story. Here's an analysis of this "giant"

The source of all these claims is an article on website of BibleBelievers that talks about 'Giant Humans and Dinosaurs', which says that the original source of of it is an article from December 1895 issue of The British Strand Magazine that was reprinted in a book called "Traces of the Elder Faiths of Ireland" written by W.G. Wood-Martin.
"Pre-eminent among the most extraordinary articles ever held by a railway company is the fossilized Irish giant, which is at this moment lying at the London and North-Western Railway Company's Broad street goods depot, and a photograph of which is reproduced here. . . This monstrous figure is reputed to have been dug up by a Mr. Dyer whilst prospecting for iron ore in County Antrim.
The principal measurements are: entire length, 12ft. 2in.; girth of chest, 6ft. 6in.; and length of arms, 4ft. 6in. There are six toes on the right foot. The gross weight is 2 tons 15cwt.; so that it took half a dozen men and a powerful crane to place this article of lost property in position for the Strand magazine artist. Dyer, after showing the giant in Dublin, came to England with his queer find and exhibited it in Liverpool and Manchester at sixpence, sixpence a head, attracting scientific men as well as gaping sightseers".

THE ACTUAL FACTS

W.G. Wood-Martin, who shared the original source of this article from The Strand Magazine did not actually believe in the claim and share it. He mentioned the story as printed in the magazine and then said - "let the reader judge as to the genuineness of the fossilized Irish giant" (You can see the picture from the book in image section below). The original article in Strand Magazine, 'Lost Property Office' written by William G. FitzGerald briefly mentioned the same story, followed by an ownership dispute between the two showmen.
It is mentioned that Mr. Dyer started a show business with the Giant, exhibiting it in Dublin and then in England. Later he induced a showman named Kershaw and sent this Giant from Manchester to London by rail. This is where the picture in question was taken. However, due to an ownership dispute and that the rail carriage charge was not paid, the Giant was left with the rail company and nothing was heard about it ever since.
There are few aspects that question the authenticity of this fossilized Irish Giant:
The Strand Magazine was primarily a fiction magazine, which sometimes used to publish puzzles and brain-teasers as well.
The only available proof of the story is the picture, which again is not sure to be precise. Couldn't it be a carefully selected camera angle shot with the freight car in the background so as to make it appear Giant size?.
If the story was a fact and it became popular, then why there are no scientific examinations of this particular "fossil" before it was "lost."
About the claimed weight of the Giant, 2 British tons and 15 cwt (Centrum weight) is equivalent to 6,160 pounds (considering 1 British ton equal to 2240 pounds), which is extraordinary.

Notice how most of these hoaxes are from a time when it was easy to forge photographs and are from sources with an agenda or cheap abloids.

@Lolladoff Plate : Another famous hoax, I am not going to type out the rest for you, do it on your own time.

Anyway, next time you want to make a claim, back it up with credible sources.

 

[Known_Unknown]

Even according to your argument, the bacteria is microscopic and you are what 100 zillion times larger?? So in essence, God / Devil is 100 zillion times larger than you are such that he can target a whole hemispere of the earth which again makes him omnipresent.

And what precludes an omnipresent Devil or indeed a group of devils?

And how can you judge God by just seeing things that are appearing at first sight. IMO God does not cause anybody hardship and God is just. It is an individuals own sin which causes suffering and how can you blame God for that ??? Those seemingly tragic circumstances might have been a result of the sin committed earlier without you knowing??? Newborn babies also bear the sin of their parents. So nobody is worthy to question God.

Please explain how a newborn baby "bears the sin of their parents".