The Atheism/Agnosticism Thread

Do you think God exists?


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Known_Unknown

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Hmm....then if life has no purpose or meaning...what is the point of it? why is anyone alive? If it is indeed meaningless, then would you support things like suicide etc? Because What is the point of continuing to do something that is worthless?
Life has no "objective" meaning. People continue to live because they prefer to find subjective meaning in their own lives, an excuse, because they believe existence, especially if it is a happy one, is preferable to non-existence.

In addition, some people are brainwashed by religion into believing that suicide is a sin.
 

Free Karma

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Life has no "objective" meaning. People continue to live because they prefer to find subjective meaning in their own lives, an excuse, because they believe existence, especially if it is a happy one, is preferable to non-existence.

In addition, some people are brainwashed by religion into believing that suicide is a sin.
eh? I was actually thinking most ahtheists would be the opposite, enjoy life to the fullest, most atheists (okay not that I've had profound philosophical discussions with them, and most of them are xtians) tend to be like that.

Okay....so in an ideal world, then, every one should just commit suicide? I dont understand..so life is useless and suicide is okay? And if you truly believe that, then you wouldnt be here .
 
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civfanatic

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Hmm....then if life has no purpose or meaning...what is the point of it? why is anyone alive? If it is indeed meaningless, then would you support things like suicide etc? Because What is the point of continuing to do something that is worthless?
Like Known Unknown said, people find their own individual "meaning" to life. Usually, it is things like family, friends, interests/hobbies, etc. that keep people going. So, even though there is no "grand meaning" to our existence, we can still find happiness in little things in life, which give our individual lives "meaning".

I am personally opposed to suicide, simply because I find it a very irrational and stupid thing to do, except in certain very specific circumstances. I don't believe in an afterlife or reincarnation, so for me, this is the only existence I will ever have. Even if life becomes overwhelming and difficult at times, I would never throw this away.
 

happy

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I disagree with the premise of the argument itself. Morality is NOT objective. Read my signature.
Well your signature is a quote from a spineless leader who can not say better than that to remain on the fence.
 

happy

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I believe that God doesn't exist, but the Devil does. Bad things happen to people because the Devil is busy tormenting them. Good things happen because the Devil is busy tormenting someone else.
You are absolutely wrong. According to your argument, the devil should be tormenting only one other person....but as you will certainly agree good is happening to many people and bad is happening to many more people. So unless the devil is omnipresent he cannot torment many people at the same time. So as there is GOOD and EVIL, GOD and DEVIL also co-exist.
 

happy

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Life has no "objective" meaning. People continue to live because they prefer to find subjective meaning in their own lives, an excuse, because they believe existence, especially if it is a happy one, is preferable to non-existence.

In addition, some people are brainwashed by religion into believing that suicide is a sin.
Is this why you are still living?? You imply this for all people so in essence it is your own reason for living as well.
 

civfanatic

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Well your signature is a quote from a spineless leader who can not say better than that to remain on the fence.
Actually, my signature at the time I made the post was completely different. It had something to do with the concept of morality being bullshit, but I forgot the exact quote.

Also, no one who has not also governed a country has a right to criticize someone else as "spineless", and I am sure you haven't.
 

Singh

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Life has no "objective" meaning. People continue to live because they prefer to find subjective meaning in their own lives, an excuse, because they believe existence, especially if it is a happy one, is preferable to non-existence.

In addition, some people are brainwashed by religion into believing that suicide is a sin.
I don't know how much of this is true, but I was quite influenced by this philosophy, every living moment you are chasing happiness/pleasure/gratification.
 

Bodhi

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My religious beliefs do not include a belief in any creator since that is contradictory. However I REFUSE to see myself as just a vehicle for my genes with my sole purpose in life is to have children. I know it is logical to believe that but I trust the wisdom of even greater men than modern scientists like Lord Buddha who categorically rejected the materialistic philosophy of Ajita Keshakhambalin and others. Many great meditation masters after years of solemn practice have seen what they were in their previous births. Scientists have tried again and again to prove that consciousness ceases with the death of the brain and have come up with nothing. Indian civilization is based on belief of karma and reincarnation. If one ceases to believe that, then you are indirectly saying our thousands of year old culture is bogus.
 

civfanatic

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My religious beliefs do not include a belief in any creator since that is contradictory. However I REFUSE to see myself as just a vehicle for my genes with my sole purpose in life is to have children. I know it is logical to believe that but I trust the wisdom of even greater men than modern scientists like Lord Buddha who categorically rejected the materialistic philosophy of Ajita Keshakhambalin and others. Many great meditation masters after years of solemn practice have seen what they were in their previous births. Scientists have tried again and again to prove that consciousness ceases with the death of the brain and have come up with nothing. Indian civilization is based on belief of karma and reincarnation. If one ceases to believe that, then you are indirectly saying our thousands of year old culture is bogus.
What is wrong with saying so? Concepts of "karma" and "reincarnation" cannot be scientifically proven. As far as I am concerned, they are indeed bogus. I have no reason to take the word of so-called "meditation masters".

Also, what "civilization" did Ajita Kesakambalin and the Charvaks belong to? What "culture" were they a part of?
 

Bodhi

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What is wrong with saying so? Concepts of "karma" and "reincarnation" cannot be scientifically proven. As far as I am concerned, they are indeed bogus. I have no reason to take the word of so-called "meditation masters".

Also, what "civilization" did Ajita Kesakambalin and the Charvaks belong to? What "culture" were they a part of?
Those idiots were a fringe of a fringe. It is you who is the real bogus one here with your attitude, as you are wanting physical evidence for something which is beyond the physical plane.

And why do you call yourself "Dharmapala" when your views are quite opposite of Anagarika Dhammapala? Whatever you consider yourself a "pala" of is not Buddha Dhamma.
 
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civfanatic

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Those idiots were a fringe of a fringe. It is you who is the real bogus one here with your attitude, as you are wanting physical evidence for something which is beyond the physical plane.
They were perceived as "fringe idiots" only by the majority, who were the true idiots. Just as people like Galileo were seen as heretical crackpots for the time, when they were entirely right. When you live in a society dominated by irrational religious dogma, the few rationalists who speak the truth will of course be denounced as "fringe idiots". One of the great things about ancient Indian civilization is that these rationalists were at least allowed to live, even if they were largely ignored and ridiculed, unlike in some other places where they were just killed.

There is no such thing as "beyond the physical plane". All phenomena in the universe are nothing more than the physical interactions between matter and/or energy. Prove to me otherwise.
 

Bodhi

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They were perceived as "fringe idiots" only by the majority, who were the true idiots. Just as people like Galileo were seen as heretical crackpots for the time, when they were entirely right. When you live in a society dominated by irrational religious dogma, the few rationalists who speak the truth will of course be denounced as "fringe idiots".

There is no such thing as "beyond the physical plane". All phenomena in the universe are nothing more than the physical interactions between matter and/or energy. Prove to me otherwise.
Prove to me that conciousness ceases with the brain first! Also let me understand you correctly, Lord Buddha was a "true idiot" then? If he wanted to, since we do not believe in atta, he could have accepted such annhiliationist philosophy, but this sage of the Skayas, the blessed one who spread the glory of the one true Dhamma all over Asia did not believe such a ludicrous theory. I believe it would have appeared logical to such an intelligent man as him but he categorically rejected it.

I suppose Asvaghosa, Buddhadasa, Nagarjuna, Padmasambhava were similarly all idiots then?
 
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Bodhi

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When you live in a society dominated by irrational religious dogma, the few rationalists who speak the truth will of course be denounced as "fringe idiots". One of the great things about ancient Indian civilization is that these rationalists were at least allowed to live, even if they were largely ignored and ridiculed, unlike in some other places where they were just killed.
I suggest you read "Greater Magadha" a recent academic book by Bronkhorst. It clearly lays out evidence that during time of Lord Buddha, there was no widespread acceptance of karma/reincarnation in the society.
 

civfanatic

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Prove to me that conciousness ceases with the brain first!
A human who has suffered extensive brain damage and has entered a chronic coma has no "consciousness". It is not possible for a human to experience consciousness without a brain, because like all other phenomena, consciousness is nothing more than a result of physical interaction between matter. In particular, it is the neurological interactions in the brain between the thalamus and the cerebral cortex which allow a human being to experience consciousness. When the thalamus of the brain is seriously damaged, the result is a loss of consciousness, i.e. a coma. A comatose patient has no self-awareness, cannot respond to external stimuli, and cannot initiate physical actions on his/her own accord.


Also let me understand you correctly, Lord Buddha was a "true idiot" then? If he wanted to, since we do not believe in anatta, he could have accepted such annhiliationist philosophy, but this sage of the Skayas, the blessed one who spread the glory of the one true Dhamma all over Asia did not believe such a ludicrous theory. I believe it would have appeared logical to such an intelligent man as him but he categorically rejected it.

I suppose Asvaghosa, Buddhadasa, Nagarjuna, Padmasambhava were similarly all idiots then?
Many Buddhist philosophers accepted certain assertions that cannot be empirically proven, such as those regarding transmigration of souls, reincarnation, consciousness, etc. By modern standards they may appear as "idiots" for accepting such assertions as true. However, I think it is important to keep in mind that the ancient Buddhist philosophers and Siddhartha Gautama himself did not have access to the modern scientific knowledge that we do today. Given the absence of this knowledge, they lacked some key insights into the nature of the physical world and the physical human body that we have today. The state of scientific knowledge in the 6th century B.C.E. was not advanced enough to decisively support materialism; the Charvaks and other such materialists could not cite scientific journals and information to support their arguments, but instead had to resort to philosophical debates. Even in the 21st century, when scientific knowledge overwhelmingly supports materialism and increasingly shows how ludicrous and backwards religions are, there are many humans who still cling to their personal religions and reject scientific theories out of reasons of "faith". One can only imagine how the situation must have been 2500 years ago. The Charvaks and other rationalists must have had a very difficult time back then, and it is not too surprising that they went extinct and were never extremely popular.
 

civfanatic

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I suggest you read "Greater Magadha" a recent academic book by Bronkhorst. It clearly lays out evidence that during time of Lord Buddha, there was no widespread acceptance of karma/reincarnation in the society.
What is your point? Are you challenging the notion that Magadha in the 6th century B.C.E. was a very religious society overall, or that Buddha believed in karma/reincarnation? The modern inhabitants of Magadha are extremely religious even today, and comparatively few are atheists, rationalists, and/or materialists. It does not not matter what exactly they believed in, as long as they were religious, which they undoubtedly were.


And why do you call yourself "Dharmapala" when your views are quite opposite of Anagarika Dhammapala? Whatever you consider yourself a "pala" of is not Buddha Dhamma.
I do not consider myself a follower of Buddha Dhamma, and I am certainly not an anagarika. My conception of "dharma" is not identical with the dhamma of Buddhists.

However, I have great respect for Buddha Dhamma, and I would much rather have India be a Buddhist country than a "Hindu" country.
 

happy

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Actually, my signature at the time I made the post was completely different. It had something to do with the concept of morality being bullshit, but I forgot the exact quote.

Also, no one who has not also governed a country has a right to criticize someone else as "spineless", and I am sure you haven't.
I disagree both your statements.

Morality is NOT BS and

It is not needed to govern a country in order to be eligible to criticize someone else as long as you are being governed by that someone or you are eating the fruits of the results of the one who governed.

It seems like you do not have stability.
 

Dovah

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I disagree both your statements.

Morality is NOT BS and

It is not needed to govern a country in order to be eligible to criticize someone else as long as you are being governed by that someone or you are eating the fruits of the results of the one who governed.

It seems like you do not have stability.
Absolute morality is BS.
 

happy

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Many Buddhist philosophers accepted certain assertions that cannot be empirically proven, such as those regarding transmigration of souls, reincarnation, consciousness, etc. By modern standards they may appear as "idiots" for accepting such assertions as true. However, I think it is important to keep in mind that the ancient Buddhist philosophers and Siddhartha Gautama himself did not have access to the modern scientific knowledge that we do today. Given the absence of this knowledge, they lacked some key insights into the nature of the physical world and the physical human body that we have today. The state of scientific knowledge in the 6th century B.C.E. was not advanced enough to decisively support materialism; the Charvaks and other such materialists could not cite scientific journals and information to support their arguments, but instead had to resort to philosophical debates. Even in the 21st century, when scientific knowledge overwhelmingly supports materialism and increasingly shows how ludicrous and backwards religions are, there are many humans who still cling to their personal religions and reject scientific theories out of reasons of "faith". One can only imagine how the situation must have been 2500 years ago. The Charvaks and other rationalists must have had a very difficult time back then, and it is not too surprising that they went extinct and were never extremely popular.
Is that how you explain the technology of the ancient days. Why were the great scientists of our day not able to explain how the stone henge was built or why were they not able to explain the Indus valley civilization which was far more advanced and what about Phaistos Disc and Mummies and Pyramids and The first stone calendar and 300 million year old iron screw and Teotihuacan, Mexico....................the list goes on and on. Dont mislead people with your BS. One day you and I will also be extinct and people will study us and say they "fcuking rationalists must have had a very difficult time back then, and it is not too surprising that they went extinct and were never extremely popular." Hope you like that :)
 
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