The Atheism/Agnosticism Thread

[Godless-Kafir]

Karl Marx's book Critique of Hegel's Philosophy of Right is more nuanced:

"Religion is, indeed, the self-consciousness and self-esteem of man who has either not yet won through to himself, or has already lost himself again. But man is no abstract being squatting outside the world. Man is the world of man—state, society. This state and this society produce religion, which is an inverted consciousness of the world, because they are an inverted world. Religion is the general theory of this world, its encyclopedic compendium, its logic in popular form, its spiritual point d'honneur, its enthusiasm, its moral sanction, its solemn complement, and its universal basis of consolation and justification. It is the fantastic realization of the human essence since the human essence has not acquired any true reality. The struggle against religion is, therefore, indirectly the struggle against that world whose spiritual aroma is religion. Religious suffering is, at one and the same time, the expression of real suffering and a protest against real suffering. Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people. The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is the demand for their real happiness. To call on them to give up their illusions about their condition is to call on them to give up a condition that requires illusions. The criticism of religion is, therefore, in embryo, the criticism of that vale of tears of which religion is the halo."

Karl Marx Beyond the Opium of the People

Marx was a good writer but an idealist and an utopian. Perhaps his words would have more meaning and gain sympathy if he spoke of emotions like love and also spoke little about armed striff.

 

[Sabir]

God, Allah, Devas and Devis etc are illegal immigrant on earth despite having their own place so called paradise. OOOPs...I cant say illegal as some people think it is legitimate. But, I will be happy if they leave earth solely to the earthlings and reside to their own place.

 

[LurkerBaba]

This isn't restricted to atheism alone. This is for theists and even science. For eg: It is not you who found the theory of relativity, someone else did. You just believe in it because it makes sense. Even among theists, all those who profess belief in Christ did not write the Bible, only a few people did. Similarly, only a few like Richard Dawkins research atheism and write about it. Once it begins to make sense there will be more people who reject religion.

In the past the Bible made "sense" to the people because they were ignorant. They reacted to it out of fear and a smaller group of people took advantage of this fear to gain more power and in turn spread it even more. This spread among the children and continues to this day.

Raise a child without religion and he will never accept it once grown up. Raise a child with religion and teach him to fear it, he will never let go even after he is all grown up.

Agree with most of your points.

However, you're equating religion with belief in god. For me, blind affinity to any ideology is equivalent to religion, god is just a useful tool.

You dint get my point did you- Figures

The thing is no one studies religion to believe in god, so why should some one study religion to not believe in god?

I haven't given judgement.

 

[Mad Indian]

I haven't given judgement.

Your post hinted at that.

Anywho, that point is for all the people who say that Atheists are Atheists because of their laziness and not because of their understanding of religion.

For instance Daredevil made a similar point regarding that in a similar thread started by Godless-Kafir

 

[The Messiah]

Study: Atheists more driven by compassion than highly religious people

Study: Atheists more driven by compassion than highly religious people

Highly religious people are less motivated by compassion than atheists, agnostics and less religious people, according to a new study.

Research from University of California, Berkeley published in the most recent edition of the journal Social Psychological and Personality Science found a stronger link between compassion and generosity among non-religious or less religious people.

"Overall, we find that for less religious people, the strength of their emotional connection to another person is critical to whether they will help that person or not," UC Berkeley social psychologist and study co-author Robb Willer explained. "The more religious, on the other hand, may ground their generosity less in emotion, and more in other factors such as doctrine, a communal identity, or reputational concerns."

Lead author Laura Saslow recalled she became interested in the topic after an atheist friend said he had only donated money for earthquake relief in Haiti after watching a touching video of a woman being pulled from the rubble.

"I was interested to find that this experience – an atheist being strongly influenced by his emotions to show generosity to strangers – was replicated in three large, systematic studies," she noted.

In one experiment, researchers analyzed a 2004 survey of 1,300 American adults to find that non-believers and the less religious were more likely to participate in random acts of kindness like giving food or money to a homeless person.

"These findings indicate that although compassion is associated with pro-sociality among both less religious and more religious individuals, this relationship is particularly robust for less religious individuals," the study said.

Two other experiments also confirmed that more religious participants seemed to be less generous.

"Overall, this research suggests that although less religious people tend to be less trusted in the U.S., when feeling compassionate, they may actually be more inclined to help their fellow citizens than more religious people," Willer concluded.

Study: Atheists more driven by compassion than highly religious people | The Raw Story

 

[Sakal Gharelu Ustad]

Study: Atheists more driven by compassion than highly religious people | The Raw Story

Ohh..yeah..how can you forget the atheistic socialists, who are behind designing most social security schemes. Hadn't it been their help, the beggars would still be standing in front of church rather than getting a pay-check for unemployment benefits in their accounts.

 

[LurkerBaba]

Atheists tend to become Nihilists. Is anyone here a moral Nihilist ?

Nihilism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Won't society degenerate if a majority of people start to believe in moral and existential Nihilism ?

A religion/sense of 'purpose'/grand design seems like a necessary evil for society to function. If science does prove that our existence is completely meaningless, I don't think everyone will be able to come to terms with this idea.

 

[civfanatic]

^^ I am a moral nihilist, in the sense that I believe morality to be an artificial social construct and not an objective truth in itself. However, I also believe that such a moral code is necessary in order for society to function, so I adhere to it.

 

[LurkerBaba]

^^ I am a moral nihilist, in the sense that I believe morality to be an artificial social construct and not an objective truth in itself. However, I also believe that such a moral code is necessary in order for society to function, so I adhere to it.

Yes, but society functions because a majority blindly believes in absolute morality. If, a large number of people think of morality as "artificial", they'll not be content with status quo, chaos will ensue.

 

[civfanatic]

Yes, but society functions because a majority blindly believes in absolute morality. If, a large number of people think of morality as "artificial", they'll not be content with status quo, chaos will ensue.

Usually the people who believe in absolute morality are either highly religious or uneducated, or both. If a large number of people think of morality as an artificial but necessary construct, and if these people understand that it is in their collective interest to preserve and adhere to these moral principles, chaos need not ensue. Of course, this assumes that a rational, educated society exists to begin with.

 

[LurkerBaba]

Usually the people who believe in absolute morality are either highly religious or uneducated, or both. If a large number of people think of morality as an artificial but necessary construct,

I disagree. Many educated folk don't believe in god, but do believe in moral absolutes.

Even if some people think morals are relative, they may not be political Nihilists. They'll blindly rally around political ideologies, it gives them a sense of identity and purpose.

and if these people understand that it is in their collective interest to preserve and adhere to these moral principles, chaos need not ensue.

People are inhenrenlty selfish, they won't think about collective interests

Actually, I think this sense of an "identity", "greater purpose" or an idea of a deterministic universe has been hardwired into our brains. Only a minority of people may escape this handicap. So, all in all my rant was pointless and we may never have this problem of Nihilistic majority.

 

[Godless-Kafir]

Atheists tend to become Nihilists. Is anyone here a moral Nihilist ?

Nihilism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Won't society degenerate if a majority of people start to believe in moral and existential Nihilism ?

A religion/sense of 'purpose'/grand design seems like a necessary evil for society to function. If science does prove that our existence is completely meaningless, I don't think everyone will be able to come to terms with this idea.

Do you think the world is peaceful because of silly quotes and ethics like "love thy neighbor as thy self"? You may cover it up with all wonderful and romantic phrases: 'Love thy neighbour as thyself.' Don't forget that in the name of 'Love thy neighbour as thyself' millions and millions of people have died, more than in all the recent wars put together. But we now have come to a point where we can realize that violence is not the answer, that it is not the way to solve human problems. So, terror seems to be the only way. I am not talking of terrorists blowing up churches, temples, and all that kind of thing, but the terror that if you try to destroy your neighbour you will possibly destroy yourself. That realization has to come down to the level of the common man. It is only the mutual fear of destruction that is keeping Indian and Pakistan from destroying each other or USA and USSR in the past.


Personally i feel like killing an retard who messed me today but i know i can not do it without destroying myself. If you see the Sri lankan video of how they butcher tamils when law has seemingly collapsed you can be sure that many of them where Buddhist monks who volunteered.So would any Nihilist want to kill and get killed that way, i dont think so.

Today in an article i read that an study found that Atheist are more compassionate and empathetic towards others. Real atheists and not teenage rebels.

 

[LurkerBaba]

Do you think the world is peaceful because of silly quotes and ethics like "love thy neighbor as thy self"? You may cover it up with all wonderful and romantic phrases: 'Love thy neighbour as thyself.' Don't forget that in the name of 'Love thy neighbour as thyself' millions and millions of people have died, more than in all the recent wars put together. But we now have come to a point where we can realize that violence is not the answer, that it is not the way to solve human problems. So, terror seems to be the only way. I am not talking of terrorists blowing up churches, temples, and all that kind of thing, but the terror that if you try to destroy your neighbour you will possibly destroy yourself. That realization has to come down to the level of the common man. It is only the mutual fear of destruction that is keeping Indian and Pakistan from destroying each other or USA and USSR in the past.


Personally i feel like killing an retard who messed me today but i know i can not do it without destroying myself. If you see the Sri lankan video of how they butcher tamils when law has seemingly collapsed you can be sure that many of them where Buddhist monks who volunteered. Would any Nihilist want to kill and get killed, i dont think so.

Today in an article i read that an study found that Atheist are more compassionate and empathetic towards others. Real atheists and not teenage rebels.

I'm not exactly stressing on peace, but stability. Religious folks may indulge in predictable religious violence, but Nihilists would be unpreditable.

"Real and true" atheists sounds a lot like "True Scotsman". Nihilists may rationalize that compassion/empathy are just vestigial and primitive emotions

Also, many "Real atheists" are blind followers of political ideologies, rivaling religious folk in fervour

 

[Godless-Kafir]

I'm not exactly stressing on peace, but stability. Religious folks may indulge in predictable religious violence, but Nihilists would be unpreditable.

"Real and true" atheists sounds a lot like "True Scotsman". Nihilists may rationalize that compassion/empathy are just vestigial and primitive emotions

Also, many "Real atheists" are blind followers of political ideologies, they sometimes rival religious folk in their fervour

Have you seen the tribals of South America called the Piraha? They are a naturally Nihilist society that live in South america, it is good to observe how it would have been if there was no God. Would we have killed each other in moral less rage or lived peacefully? The irony is Dan Evert who was an Missionary who was sent to convert them lost his faith and became a disbeliever. It is the christian and religious people who generally spook us into believeing that the world would end if not for their faith.

 

[Mad Indian]

Today in an article i read that an study found that Atheist are more compassionate and empathetic towards others. Real atheists and not teenage rebels.

You are talking about me no?

Anyway, individuals of the society can never have a hive minded thinking. It is always each for his own. So without morals, I think we would have degenrated into animals. But then again, Morals are relative too. Will I/you save a terrorist from a situation in which without your help, he will die, when he threated to bomb your family/or worse has already killed your family? Of course not. Thats just stupid. But that wont make your decisions to not save him, any less moral now will it?

 

[Godless-Kafir]

You are talking about me no?

Anyway, individuals of the society can never have a hive minded thinking. It is always each for his own. So without morals, I think we would have degenrated into animals. But then again, Morals are relative too. Will I/you save a terrorist from a situation in which without your help, he will die, when he threated to bomb your family/or worse has already killed your family? Of course not. Thats just stupid. But that wont make your decisions to not save him, any less moral now will it?

Without morals we would have degenerated into animals? You mean we would have become better?

 

[Godless-Kafir]

@LB Any views on the video?

 

[LurkerBaba]

@LB Any views on the video?

Haven't watched it yet. But the description is quite interesting, hardcore evangelists becoming atheists :shocked:

 

[Godless-Kafir]

Haven't watched it yet. But the description is quite interesting, hardcore evangelists becoming atheists :shocked:

Ya, Nihilism is another possible religion. Its is sort of immature or rather a state between maturity and immature religious delusions.

 

[The Messiah]

Re: How Muslims around the world celebrate the month of Ramadan

I feel man should be more humble. Humility teaches respect for everything. Respecting food is a thought inculcated in all religions. All religions consider food to be god. Will you disrespect your god by wasting it? That is what I meant.

There is no god.