The Atheism/Agnosticism Thread

Do you think God exists?


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Ancient Indian

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letting go is not so easy bro. Emotions rule over you and to contain emotion , we have yoga.
I apologise If my posts coming out like rude.

The main problem with this spiritual stuff is ,

You have scriptures and you have you. But you don't know the route from you to Brahman.

This is root for all frustration. The methods we have now are not suitable for practice.

People from hundreds of years trying this yoga but seem to fail miserably.

My advice is try to become kid and got to Mother.
She will test you. But one day she will grant you moksha.
 

Ancient Indian

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Yes but you doñt just merge with the eternal with a 1 time meditation. You have to practice it daily and increase the time frame. Once you truly merge, then you become eternally one and e5ernally happy.

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There is no merging in Moksha.

Two lines depicting the correct word is,
Either you fill you mind with Brahman which is called samyama.
Or shed yourself until you realise.
 

Kshatriya87

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There is no merging in Moksha.

Two lines depicting the correct word is,
Either you fill you mind with Brahman which is called samyama.
Or shed yourself until you realise.
What are you talking about? Every scripture including Bhagwat Gita mentions this. When you meditate, your subconscious mind becomes one with "god" or "brahman". When they become one, you experience eternal bliss.
 

Ancient Indian

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What are you talking about? Every scripture including Bhagwat Gita mentions this. When you meditate, your subconscious mind becomes one with "god" or "brahman". When they become one, you experience eternal bliss.
Gita says only one thing which is detachment from every thing.
It is like some kind of shedding where you shed all the hoarded up non-sense inside your mind.

Meditation is not good. It only takes you to some point where you might be more observant than before. That's it.

Devotion is shortest route to the Brahman where you will see god in every thing and thus realizing god in yourself.
 

Kshatriya87

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Gita says only one thing which is detachment from every thing.
It is like some kind of shedding where you shed all the hoarded up non-sense inside your mind.

Meditation is not good. It only takes you to some point where you might be more observant than before. That's it.

Devotion is shortest route to the Brahman where you will see god in every thing and thus realizing god in yourself.
Karma is also one route. Where in you just perform your daily tasks and do not crave for returns. Also, devote all the tasks you do to god.

And yes, Gita does say about your sub-conscious mind becoming one with the eternal through meditation. I will post the shloka here if I find it now.
 

Kshatriya87

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@Ancient Indian

He who knows me as his own divine Self breaks through the belief that he is the body and is not reborn as a separate creature. Such a one is united with me. Delivered from selfish attachment, fear, and anger, filled with me, surrendering themselves to me, purified in the fire of my being, many have reached the state of unity in me.

Bhagavad-Gita

Source: The Bhagavad-Gita: 4:9-10, p. 86
 

Ancient Indian

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Karma is also one route. Where in you just perform your daily tasks and do not crave for returns. Also, devote all the tasks you do to god.

And yes, Gita does say about your sub-conscious mind becoming one with the eternal through meditation. I will post the shloka here if I find it now.
Doing you duty is great. But it won't help you in long term, if you don't devote yourself to the deity.
At the time of kurukshetra, it is required Arjuna to uphold his duties because it is needed.

And also note the quote
Where in you just perform your daily tasks and do not crave for returns.
Here it is said that do the task but never think about result.

It means you shouldn't think about results because thinking about result will bind you to prakriti as these thoughts make you as the doer of action.
In reality, It is not you who had done the action. But the Brahman which is behind all these things doing the actions. And the Brahman is you, not the limited version of you which is simple sum of meat and bone and other static materials.

@Ancient Indian

He who knows me as his own divine Self breaks through the belief that he is the body and is not reborn as a separate creature. Such a one is united with me. Delivered from selfish attachment, fear, and anger, filled with me, surrendering themselves to me, purified in the fire of my being, many have reached the state of unity in me.

Bhagavad-Gita

Source: The Bhagavad-Gita: 4:9-10, p. 86
He who knows me as his own divine Self
Which means you are the Brahman
breaks through the belief that he is the body and is not reborn as a separate creature
Means shedding your attachments to your body and realizing you true self which is nothing but Brahman.
Such a one is united with me
Here you will become Brahman which is Shivam or Sri Krishna.
Like Shivoham feeling as you realize you are the God.
Delivered from selfish attachment, fear, and anger, filled with me, surrendering themselves to me, purified in the fire of my being, many have reached the state of unity in me.
Again detachment he is saying. He is saying about detaching your self from these emotional turmoil.
Fear - the fear losing what you are attached to. You continue to think that If you lose some thing, you are done.

Bagavadhgeeta is all about detaching yourself from This Prakriti.

Welcome to Adhvaita = the no-nosense aproach to god.
 

Screambowl

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I apologise If my posts coming out like rude.

The main problem with this spiritual stuff is ,

You have scriptures and you have you. But you don't know the route from you to Brahman.

This is root for all frustration. The methods we have now are not suitable for practice.

People from hundreds of years trying this yoga but seem to fail miserably.

My advice is try to become kid and got to Mother.
She will test you. But one day she will grant you moksha.

That's why without a teacher you cannot attain knowledge. You need to learn he basics and then go on for your own findings.

Siddhart Gautam did the same.
 

HeinzGud

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Vow, the figure keeps increasing. Some say thousands, some say millions and now you jumped to a whole new level. Anyways, the answer as per me is this. Hinduism learns to appreciate every good thing in this life that exists. For e.g. Sun, you know the benefits. They worship Sun to show their appreciation. Moon - Gives light at night. They worship moon to show their appreciation. Same goes for Lakshmi (money), cow, elders, mother, father etc. etc.

They don't actually consider them as THE GOD. They just worship them as gods to show appreciation be thankful.
Well as a Buddhist I think there are many "gods" out there. But there is no effect from them on us or from us on them. We just live parallel to each other. Anyhow it is good to appreciate the things that help you. But it is ridicules to worship them for a bargain.
 

HeinzGud

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There was nothing called "Buddhism", just like there was nothing called "Hinduism". Buddhists were simply called Sakya Bhiksus, it's just another school of philosophy which originated in India (like the many schools of thought in "Hinduism"), but got more PR due to Ashoka's efforts.

Foreigners called it Buddhism after drawing parallels with religions they were familiar with (Christianity, Mohammedanism...)
The name has no impact on Buddha's teachings. He merely improved upon philosophies which he learnt.
 

Kshatriya87

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Well as a Buddhist I think there are many "gods" out there. But there is no effect from them on us or from us on them. We just live parallel to each other. Anyhow it is good to appreciate the things that help you. But it is ridicules to worship them for a bargain.
Check my post again, I said Hindus worship them to show appreciation, not for bargain.
 

OneGrimPilgrim

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I've been reading "the Vedanta philosophy by Swami Vivekananda". A student asks "Why does Maya or Ignorance exist?" This is the same question I asked @Sakal Gharelu Ustad. "Then why create the world?". Swami says "Why cannot be asked beyond the limit of causation." I do not understand this. My thirst for knowing has increased again.

If you guys can, please explain.
nice questions and nice replies am seeing here!
i will also add something FWIW when am back from wherever i am.
 

OneGrimPilgrim

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I've been reading "the Vedanta philosophy by Swami Vivekananda". A student asks "Why does Maya or Ignorance exist?" This is the same question I asked @Sakal Gharelu Ustad. "Then why create the world?". Swami says "Why cannot be asked beyond the limit of causation." I do not understand this. My thirst for knowing has increased again.

If you guys can, please explain.
nice questions and nice replies am seeing here!
i will also add something FWIW when am back from wherever i am.
ample good explanations have been provided. I will try keeping it concise.

Maya, can also be seen like this - the word Maya has Maa at its root, and this Maya ('illusion') has that Motherly aspect, which provides you with what you desire, either immediately, or after due time, or in another life (causation). however, if we see through a simple example of a child in a crib, crying and bawling --> the Mother gives it various toys to quieten him, the baby still cries; then she gives it something to grab its attention, no, not doing; then may be milk, no, still not satisfied....ultimately she takes hold of the child and gets it snugly into her bosom, and the child feels totally at ease. this is more-or-less the same thing with Maya. till the time one is happy or/and wanting, the illusion keeps catering to his whims & fancies till he's not ultimately tired (this point comes in everybody's lives over a spread of them) and would have absolutely no more of the illusory things to keep him temporarily engaged! at that point, he may've to undergo some tests of spirit put forth by nature for him to check his fortitude. if he passes, he's then ready to go back into the lap of whatever intelligence is working from behind the 'veil' (I repeatedly keep using this term for a good reason). then he's no more bound by the limitations of nature (albeit still to an extent by causation).

as to the 'why', I might say it could still be asked, but to the 'self'. howmuchever the 'modern' man may dislike it, but logic & reasoning alone ultimately have their limitations (a body and brain made & fostered by surroundings subject to the law of causation & the principle of limitation cannot work any different). its not for nothing that its repeatedly emphasised in teachings that the highest form of knowledge is 'intuition'.

Tulsaninda stutirmouni satusto yena kenachita
aniketah sthirmatirbhaktimaan me priya narah (Gita 12 ch. 19)

he for whom praise and criticism is the same (equal), is contended, has no house of his own to live in (lack of material desires), has a stable mind, such a devotee is dear to Me.

it is a rare state of development. either one reaches it through intelligent self-contemplation (not using mental gymnastics alone, but combining it with looking internally/meditation), or through the company of the spiritually wise/evolved, but mainly through spiritual practices.

Sri Ramana Maharshi had one very simple prescription for whoever came to him seeking knowledge. he used to tell to keep continuously contemplating on the thought 'WHO AM I?', such that you know no hunger, thirst, pain, discomfort, nothing, with such vigour. he himself was the product of this method applied by him in his younger years, and hence the simple suggestion. this is what I meant. the 'why' that transgresses the limit of causation is better probed to oneself introvertedly rather than pose to others extrovertedly, which would then reduce to just philosophising but not direct experience.

P.S. - imagine a pond of fishes. one day you decide to do casual angling, you catch one of them, but soon return it to its home-pond. meanwhile this fish had ample time to look at 'your' world. it goes back to its society where its well-wishers were very worried about him as to where/how did he vanish into 'thin water'. he now tells the others about his 'other-worldly' experience, and is immediately met with laughs & scoffs by his friends, family, scientist-&-rationalist fishes. no amount of their local logic & reasoning ('local' to the pond-world & its denizens' brains) could accommodate for them such a profoundly bizarre & 'unacceptable' experience/tale such as the one recounted by the poor fish, now left in sorts of a dire predicament.

from this allegory alone one could go forth to understand/carry forth his thought-process to quite a few things and many unanswered doubts & queries (perennially) plaguing the human-mind. I would now refrain from writing anymore. hope this was somewhat of whatever use.
 
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HeinzGud

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Gita says only one thing which is detachment from every thing.
It is like some kind of shedding where you shed all the hoarded up non-sense inside your mind.

Meditation is not good. It only takes you to some point where you might be more observant than before. That's it.

Devotion is shortest route to the Brahman where you will see god in every thing and thus realizing god in yourself.
Buddha's rejected the Brahman claims. There is no way to Nirvana other than mastering your own mind. Meditation is the method to master your own mind.
 
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