The Atheism/Agnosticism Thread

[Ancient Indian]

I got this explanation from Swami's lectures. But that's just it. Why can't I ask the question "why"? That in itself is incomprehensible to me. How else am I supposed to understand this dilemma? The moment us humans are limited or we accept the limit of thinking, our mind dies. That is what I think.

You can't ask question 'Why' because light can't highlight same light.

Brahman is pure knowledge itself. And sole reason for the understanding of the world.
You can't query Brahman with Brahman. As you are Brahman itself and beyond these thinking and logic, It is impossible to question Brahman. It is like strange kind of deadlock.
Questions like these are explained in Adi Shankaracharya's Upadesa Sahasra.

 

[Screambowl]

You can't ask question 'Why' because light can't highlight same light.

Brahman is pure knowledge itself. And sole reason for the understanding of the world.
You can't query Brahman with Brahman. As you are Brahman itself and beyond these thinking and logic, It is impossible to question Brahman. It is like strange kind of deadlock.
Questions like these are explained in Adi Shankaracharya's Upadesa Sahasra.

True

Mandukya Upanishad explains the definition of OM and what actually the creator is.


Para Gyan

From purest form of knowledge to sense, energy, emotions action and then matter.

About him can be found out if we step by step follow the hirarchy towards purest form of knowledge which is Brahman.

That's why it's said that start from self as we are the part of this hirarchy.

(Apara gyan)
But people end up finding mathematical modal for that.

 

[Screambowl]

This is that supreme knowledge what the stupid people are finding through experiments ( it's the wrong way though)


2) sarvaṁ hy etad brahma, ayam ātmā brahma, so’yam ātmā catuṣ-pāt.

. All this, verily, is Brahman. The Self is Brahman. This Self has four quarters.

2) jāgarita sthāno bahiṣ-prajñaḥ saptāṅga ekonaviṁśati-mukhaḥ sthūla-bhug Vaiśvānaraḥ prathamaḥ pādah. 3.

The first quarter is Vaiśvānara. Its field is the waking state. Its consciousness is outward-turned. It is seven limbed and nineteen-mouthed. It enjoys gross objects.

3 ) svapna-sthāno’ntaḥ-prajñaḥ saptāṅga ekonavimśatimukhaḥ pravivikta-bhuk taijaso dvītiyaḥ pādah.

The second quarter is taijasa. Its field is the dream state. Its consciousness is inward-turned. It is seven-limbed and nineteen-mouthed. It enjoys subtle objects.


4)yatra supto na kaṁ cana kāmaṁ kāmayate na kaṁ cana svapnam paśyati tat suṣuptam suṣupta-sthāna ekī-bhūtaḥ prajñānā-ghana evānandamayo hy ānanda-bhuk ceto-mukhaḥ prājñas tṛtīyaḥ pādah.

The third quarter is prājña, where one asleep neither desires anything nor beholds any dream: that is deep sleep. In this field of dreamless sleep, one becomes undivided, an undifferentiated mass of consciousness, consisting of bliss and feeding on bliss. His mouth is consciousness.


5 ) eṣa sarveśvaraḥ eṣa sarvajñaḥ, eṣo’ntāryami eṣa yoniḥ sarvasya prabhavāpyayau hi bhūtānām.

This is the Lord of All; the Omniscient; the Indwelling Controller; the Source of All. This is the beginning and end of all beings.

6) nāntaḥ-prajñam, na bahiṣ prajñam, nobhayataḥ-prajñam, na prajnañā-ghanam, na prajñam, nāprajñam; adṛṣtam, avyavahārayam, agrāhyam, alakṣaṇam, acintyam, avyapadeśyam, ekātma-pratyaya-sāram, prapañcopaśamam, śāntam, śivam, advaitam, caturtham manyante, sa ātmā, sa vijñeyaḥ.

That is known as the fourth quarter: neither inward-turned nor outward-turned consciousness, nor the two together; not an indifferentiated mass of consciousness; neither knowing, nor unknowing; invisible, ineffable, intangible, devoid of characteristics, inconceivable, indefinable, its sole essence being the consciousness of its own Self; the coming to rest of all relative existence; utterly quiet; peaceful; blissful: without a second: this is the Ātman, the Self; this is to be realised.



amātraś caturtho’vyavahāryaḥ prapañcopaśamaḥ sivo’dvaita evam auṁkāra ātmaiva, saṁviśaty ātmanā’tmānaṁ ya evaṁ veda ya evaṁ veda.

The fourth is soundless: unutterable, a quieting down of all relative manifestations, blissful, peaceful, non-dual. Thus, OM is the Ātman, verily. He who knows thus, merges his self in the Self – yea, he who knows thus.



Now those who do not believe in God , NO Problem, but read the above. This has nothing to do with the religion but experiences of sages through meditation!! Asking for some Mathematical Model for this, well, that's stupidity and IGNORANCE!

 

[Kshatriya87]

You can't ask question 'Why' because light can't highlight same light.

Brahman is pure knowledge itself. And sole reason for the understanding of the world.
You can't query Brahman with Brahman. As you are Brahman itself and beyond these thinking and logic, It is impossible to question Brahman. It is like strange kind of deadlock.
Questions like these are explained in Adi Shankaracharya's Upadesa Sahasra.

If I am Brahman itself, I should already have all the answers I need. Why don't I? I shouldn't have the need to understand how brahman works or how this world works.

 

[Ancient Indian]

If I am Brahman itself, I should already have all the answers I need. Why don't I? I shouldn't have the need to understand how brahman works or how this world works.

It's because your are attached to some thing else which in turn bonds you to prakriti thus clouding your realself.

Try to detach yourself, you will understand.

 

[Screambowl]

If I am Brahman itself, I should already have all the answers I need. Why don't I? I shouldn't have the need to understand how brahman works or how this world works.

because of your actions and ego. which acts as a membrane between you and the purest form of knowledge.



For eg:
In computer science you might have learn about Classes

A inhertis B then B inherits C and C inherits D so on..

you are the Z and to reach A you need to work, when you start from down wards. But it is possible, as Z has the properties of A but not all.

 

[Ancient Indian]

This is that supreme knowledge what the stupid people are finding through experiments ( it's the wrong way though)


2) sarvaṁ hy etad brahma, ayam ātmā brahma, so’yam ātmā catuṣ-pāt.

. All this, verily, is Brahman. The Self is Brahman. This Self has four quarters.

2) jāgarita sthāno bahiṣ-prajñaḥ saptāṅga ekonaviṁśati-mukhaḥ sthūla-bhug Vaiśvānaraḥ prathamaḥ pādah. 3.

The first quarter is Vaiśvānara. Its field is the waking state. Its consciousness is outward-turned. It is seven limbed and nineteen-mouthed. It enjoys gross objects.

3 ) svapna-sthāno’ntaḥ-prajñaḥ saptāṅga ekonavimśatimukhaḥ pravivikta-bhuk taijaso dvītiyaḥ pādah.

The second quarter is taijasa. Its field is the dream state. Its consciousness is inward-turned. It is seven-limbed and nineteen-mouthed. It enjoys subtle objects.


4)yatra supto na kaṁ cana kāmaṁ kāmayate na kaṁ cana svapnam paśyati tat suṣuptam suṣupta-sthāna ekī-bhūtaḥ prajñānā-ghana evānandamayo hy ānanda-bhuk ceto-mukhaḥ prājñas tṛtīyaḥ pādah.

The third quarter is prājña, where one asleep neither desires anything nor beholds any dream: that is deep sleep. In this field of dreamless sleep, one becomes undivided, an undifferentiated mass of consciousness, consisting of bliss and feeding on bliss. His mouth is consciousness.


5 ) eṣa sarveśvaraḥ eṣa sarvajñaḥ, eṣo’ntāryami eṣa yoniḥ sarvasya prabhavāpyayau hi bhūtānām.

This is the Lord of All; the Omniscient; the Indwelling Controller; the Source of All. This is the beginning and end of all beings.

6) nāntaḥ-prajñam, na bahiṣ prajñam, nobhayataḥ-prajñam, na prajnañā-ghanam, na prajñam, nāprajñam; adṛṣtam, avyavahārayam, agrāhyam, alakṣaṇam, acintyam, avyapadeśyam, ekātma-pratyaya-sāram, prapañcopaśamam, śāntam, śivam, advaitam, caturtham manyante, sa ātmā, sa vijñeyaḥ.

That is known as the fourth quarter: neither inward-turned nor outward-turned consciousness, nor the two together; not an indifferentiated mass of consciousness; neither knowing, nor unknowing; invisible, ineffable, intangible, devoid of characteristics, inconceivable, indefinable, its sole essence being the consciousness of its own Self; the coming to rest of all relative existence; utterly quiet; peaceful; blissful: without a second: this is the Ātman, the Self; this is to be realised.



amātraś caturtho’vyavahāryaḥ prapañcopaśamaḥ sivo’dvaita evam auṁkāra ātmaiva, saṁviśaty ātmanā’tmānaṁ ya evaṁ veda ya evaṁ veda.

The fourth is soundless: unutterable, a quieting down of all relative manifestations, blissful, peaceful, non-dual. Thus, OM is the Ātman, verily. He who knows thus, merges his self in the Self – yea, he who knows thus.



Now those who do not believe in God , NO Problem, but read the above. This has nothing to do with the religion but experiences of sages through meditation!! Asking for some Mathematical Model for this, well, that's stupidity and IGNORANCE!

There is this sect who are obsessed with models and inference knowledge.

Sankyans are what they are. It's ok to ask for any inference to Brahman. Everyone has to start some where.

 

[Screambowl]

There is this sect who are obsessed with models and inference knowledge.

Sankyans are what they are. It's ok to ask for any inference to Brahman. Everyone has to start some where.

They are working with Apara gayan ( material knowledge) where as only Para Gyan ( spiritual knowledge ) can give the correct understanding of the purest knowledge.

 

[Ancient Indian]

They are working with Apara gayan ( material knowledge) where as only Para Gyan ( spiritual knowledge ) can give the correct understanding of the purest knowledge.

I think I come under sankyans. They seem to pretty much satisfy my curiosity unlike Bhakthi people.

Are you by chance any devotee?

 

[Screambowl]

I think I come under sankyans. They seem to pretty much satisfy my curiosity unlike Bhakthi people.

Are you by chance any devotee?

No but I have read the scriptures

But for any thing you need to have a believe and Guru to show you the path even if you have nireshwara( without God / Sankayan) belief. Only after Meditation, gyan , raja yoga, They attain knowledge and definition of God.

Because God is something to experience, the power has to be experienced, the infinity can only be experienced but cannot be seen heard, touched, spoken.

It is of no use to write it down on paper and do mathematics in that.

 

[Ancient Indian]

No but I have read the scriptures

But for any thing you need to have a believe and Guru to show you the path even if you have nireshwara( without God) belief. Only after Meditation, gyan , raja yoga, They attain knowledge and definition of God.

Because God is something to experience, the power has to be experienced, the infinity can only be experienced but cannot be seen heard, touched, spoken.

You are talking like you have some kind of enlightenment yourself.

What is it like?

 

[Screambowl]

You are talking like you have some kind of enlightenment yourself.

What is it like?

No I have not experienced but this is common sense that infinity written as some symbol on paper will not give you knowledge about God. The only knowledge you get to know is the nature of God.

But to feel what infinity is , is something what our scripture say. They do not say to prove. More over they also do not say prove it to others.

It purely depends on the human whether he wants to write infinity on the piece of paper or actually experience it.

 

[Kshatriya87]

No but I have read the scriptures

But for any thing you need to have a believe and Guru to show you the path even if you have nireshwara( without God / Sankayan) belief. Only after Meditation, gyan , raja yoga, They attain knowledge and definition of God.

Because God is something to experience, the power has to be experienced, the infinity can only be experienced but cannot be seen heard, touched, spoken.

It is of no use to write it down on paper and do mathematics in that.

I remember this one time when I sat meditating for over half an hour. When I came out of it, I felt happy. I didn't even know the reason. But I felt pure happiness and was smiling for the next 2 hours just by the experience of it. So that gives me an idea when scriptures talk about eternal bliss. Can't even imagine how that would feel.

 

[Ancient Indian]

No I have not experienced but this is common sense that infinity written as some symbol on paper will not give you knowledge about God. The only knowledge you get to know is the nature of God.

But to feel what infinity is , is something what our scripture say. They do not say to prove. More over they also do not say prove it to others.

It purely depends on the human whether he wants to write infinity on the piece of paper or actually experience it.

Have you ever enquired what this infinite is instead of reading these scriptures?
You are telling kshatriya to stop asking for models but you seem to have attached to some kind of models even though you are not aware of it.

The explanation you had given looks like some kind of math model which has some kind of 3d layers of Brahman.

I mean reading is fine but you have to go step further, not for learning but for liberation for yourself.

 

[Screambowl]

I remember this one time when I sat meditating for over half an hour. When I came out of it, I felt happy. I didn't even know the reason. But I felt pure happiness and was smiling for the next 2 hours just by the experience of it. So that gives me an idea when scriptures talk about eternal bliss. Can't even imagine how that would feel.

Have you ever enquired what this infinite is instead of reading these scriptures?
You are telling kshatriya to stop asking for models but you seem to have attached to some kind of models even though you are not aware of it.

The explanation you had given looks like some kind of math model which has some kind of 3d layers of Brahman.

I mean reading is fine but you have to go step further, not for learning but for liberation for yourself.

That is what is explained. EXPERIENCE IT, don't just read.

and my experience is , I realized the difference between permanent and non permanent things. When I meditated. Now It's easy for me many times to let go things, of course not always!! Finally emotions are always there and I am not a daily practitioner!

 

[Ancient Indian]

I remember this one time when I sat meditating for over half an hour. When I came out of it, I felt happy. I didn't even know the reason. But I felt pure happiness and was smiling for the next 2 hours just by the experience of it. So that gives me an idea when scriptures talk about eternal bliss. Can't even imagine how that would feel.

It is some sort of satvika bliss. Never mistake normal with abnormal.

Brahman is pure knowledge and once you come back from it, you won't pose questions.

 

[Ancient Indian]

That is what is explained. EXPERIENCE IT, don't just read.

and my experience is , I realized the difference between permanent and non permanent things. When I meditated. Now It's easy for me many times to let go things, of course not always!! Finally emotions are always there and I am not a daily practitioner!

You have to let go of everything and then fill that with Brahman.

Adwaita is shortest way to moksha.

 

[Kshatriya87]

It is some sort of satvika bliss. Never mistake normal with abnormal.

Brahman is pure knowledge and once you come back from it, you won't pose questions.

Yes but you doñt just merge with the eternal with a 1 time meditation. You have to practice it daily and increase the time frame. Once you truly merge, then you become eternally one and e5ernally happy.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

 

[Screambowl]

You have to let go of everything and then fill that with Brahman.

Adwaita is shortest way to moksha.

letting go is not so easy bro. Emotions rule over you and to contain emotion , we have yoga.

 

[Kshatriya87]

letting go is not so easy bro. Emotions rule over you and to contain emotion , we have yoga.

This is what the meditation is for. It helps you concentrate and control your senses. If you practice it daily, your will learn to control your senses and hence emotions. Letting go will be easier as you go forward. Then comes the stage of merging with the brahman.