TEDBF or ORCA Updates

Lonewolf

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 26, 2021
Messages
1,591
Likes
4,272
Country flag
According to LM eots is a 4th gen Sniper which is inferior to xr. So it's das not eots. Das is also a eots with smaller resolution and very high sensitivity. And capable of tracking ICBM 1300km away, irst, maws, mlws, optical surveillance, etc. and the best thing in f35. No wonder why f35 have lots of software issues. Rafale, f16, f15, ef2000 etc having more advanced sensors than eots. Now LM wanted a brand new eots [advanced sinper xr].
I stick with f35 manufacture/suppliers in this case.
So what i have read and understood from various sources , irst and flir incorporated on rafale are for air to air as well as air to ground role , but eots combine both capability in a single stealth shaped sensor for dedicated air to ground role as employing a common sensor for air to ground , and air to air was not considered beneficial by them , DAS is a much different system it employs , various sensor for maws , rwr , irst type role but for air to air , share info with radar , overall situational awareness in longer range , it consists of wide frequency range , more powerful .

Eots is a show beauty , which our das can incorporate without that particular structure , US didn't do it cause they have separate vendor for both system .

So don't worry about situational awareness , we will have it much better than present f 35 , which won't change much in 2030 , targeting pod shouldn't be external as that part of work can be incorporated in DAS easily as in f 35 , but we can add different sensor to improve capability , also amca have longer nose cone , will definitely use it for sensor incorporation.


We should take this discussion forward with ew suite , it's components , development , requirements , they already are developing vivialdi gan arrangement , active sealth , wing tip ew suite .
 

SARTHAK

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 29, 2020
Messages
300
Likes
405
Country flag
So what i have read and understood from various sources , irst and flir incorporated on rafale are for air to air as well as air to ground role , but eots combine both capability in a single stealth shaped sensor for dedicated air to ground role as employing a common sensor for air to ground , and air to air was not considered beneficial by them , DAS is a much different system it employs , various sensor for maws , rwr , irst type role but for air to air , share info with radar , overall situational awareness in longer range , it consists of wide frequency range , more powerful .

Eots is a show beauty , which our das can incorporate without that particular structure , US didn't do it cause they have separate vendor for both system .

So don't worry about situational awareness , we will have it much better than present f 35 , which won't change much in 2030 , targeting pod shouldn't be external as that part of work can be incorporated in DAS easily as in f 35 , but we can add different sensor to improve capability , also amca have longer nose cone , will definitely use it for sensor incorporation.


We should take this discussion forward with ew suite , it's components , development , requirements , they already are developing vivialdi gan arrangement , active sealth , wing tip ew suite .
bro ,DAS as i said is nothing but an irst BUT with six ir sensors, RWR are NOT a part of it.Irst also serve as maws
EOTS =tv camera + ir sensor +optimized for ground target


in planes which hve all info from
rwr + irst 360 degree(DAS) + Radar + ir missile seeker (example mica in rafale )
is fused into one track and firing solution is generated (example- rafale)
this passive sitauational awareness bubble can cover upto 65-70 km if DAS is lwir + mwir based
also rwr (interferometry based)+ irst(das) can generate passive track that is without radar though multi ship triangulation

 

Gerlat

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 26, 2021
Messages
63
Likes
40
Country flag
So what i have read and understood from various sources , irst and flir incorporated on rafale are for air to air as well as air to ground role , but eots combine both capability in a single stealth shaped sensor for dedicated air to ground role as employing a common sensor for air to ground , and air to air was not considered beneficial by them , DAS is a much different system it employs , various sensor for maws , rwr , irst type role but for air to air , share info with radar , overall situational awareness in longer range , it consists of wide frequency range , more powerful .

Eots is a show beauty , which our das can incorporate without that particular structure , US didn't do it cause they have separate vendor for both system .

So don't worry about situational awareness , we will have it much better than present f 35 , which won't change much in 2030 , targeting pod shouldn't be external as that part of work can be incorporated in DAS easily as in f 35 , but we can add different sensor to improve capability , also amca have longer nose cone , will definitely use it for sensor incorporation.


We should take this discussion forward with ew suite , it's components , development , requirements , they already are developing vivialdi gan arrangement , active sealth , wing tip ew suite .
I'm not worried, but gets confused with some posts. In f35 das provide irst, osf functions of rafale plus more. Eots similar to talios pod.
AMCA right now don't have eots, but that's not a problem. Both das and eots having ir sensors, same for rafale, osf and spectra having ir sensors.
 

SARTHAK

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 29, 2020
Messages
300
Likes
405
Country flag
I'm not worried, but gets confused with some posts. In f35 das provide irst, osf functions of rafale plus more. Eots similar to talios pod.
AMCA right now don't have eots, but that's not a problem. Both das and eots having ir sensors, same for rafale, osf and spectra having ir sensors.
first of all DAS's full name is "eodas" (Electro optical distributed aperture system) which means six irst sensors spread over the body ,rafale's OSF(Optronique secteur frontal) is french name for (one ir sensor + tv camera +laser range finder) ,spectra is ew suite
 

SARTHAK

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 29, 2020
Messages
300
Likes
405
Country flag
BTW rafale has 2 ir sensors at the back similar to DC maws known as ddm ng idk if they operate in mwir only or lwir also
 

Gerlat

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 26, 2021
Messages
63
Likes
40
Country flag
first of all DAS's full name is "eodas" (Electro optical distributed aperture system) which means six irst sensors spread over the body ,rafale's OSF(Optronique secteur frontal) is french name for (one ir sensor + tv camera +laser range finder) ,spectra is ew suite
I already mentioned those. If you see das ir sensors providing maws, in Rafale maws is a part of spectra.
Das having some functions of spectra and major functions of osf plus more. Also f35 having its own ew/defensive suite. If I'm right, f35 having 6 ir sensors [das] plus 1 ir sensor[etos], on other [rafale] 1 for irst and 2 ddm. Rest depends on type of hardware and software algorithms. DC maws also having ir sensors.
Right now my question is - how good is das in - irst functions, target resolution, day and night real time visions, which is directly displayed in helmet.
 

SARTHAK

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 29, 2020
Messages
300
Likes
405
Country flag
but considering f35 is usaf prime asset das wud be good ,these kind of sensors are extremely useful against stealthy target when multiple ships r flying ,suppose if das is integrated on tejas mk2(a 4.5 gen semi stealthy like fighter) against j20 then 2 mk2 can connect through datalink and cue an ir seeker missile without turning their radar on, the passive method will never let rwr of j20 know a missile was fired but yes datalink can be detected
 

Bleh

Laughing member
Senior Member
Joined
Nov 23, 2017
Messages
4,782
Likes
17,520
Country flag
Watch both the videos to learn about the Soviet doctrine 👌 of using naval jets for only A2A ops to protect the warship flotilla.

Essentially, Indian Navy is now trying to deviate from this without ditching two of our carriers & switch to using the naval air arm into land attack or anti-ship roles as well. For that we need the Teddy whose larger delta-canard wings can generate far more lift at low speeds & by pitching nose up can achieve higher AoA during takeoff (roughly 30% more MTOW compared to AMCA).
 

Bleh

Laughing member
Senior Member
Joined
Nov 23, 2017
Messages
4,782
Likes
17,520
Country flag
View attachment 80187View attachment 80188View attachment 80189View attachment 80190

@Bleh, the canard positioning should be a bit more forward to be more effective, IDK why LCA-AF-MK2 and TEDBF both have Canards just above their Delta wing...🤷🏻.
I don't know why people keep saying that!.. How can they possibly know?

There are models like Kfir that have overlapping canards, even Rafale canards are over its wing's LERX. This should vary depending on the design & airflow around it.
 

SARTHAK

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 29, 2020
Messages
300
Likes
405
Country flag
I don't know why people keep saying that!.. How can they possibly know?

There are models like Kfir that have overlapping canards, even Rafale canards are over its wing's LERX. This should vary depending on the design & airflow around it.
also canards must hve optimized for less radar wave returns although they r not good for stealth
 

Bleh

Laughing member
Senior Member
Joined
Nov 23, 2017
Messages
4,782
Likes
17,520
Country flag
also canards must hve optimized for less radar wave returns although they r not good for stealth
Yes the edge alignment is necessary for stealth, unlike in J-20. KF-X actually had a good stealthy canarded version, before the project imploded...
KFX-201

If well aligned then they produce no more drag or radarwave reflection than normal tailplanes do.

Now guys, do keep in mind that, the Teddy is just an initial concept only going into wind-tunnels! The final shit may look very different.
 

SARTHAK

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 29, 2020
Messages
300
Likes
405
Country flag
Yes the edge alignment is necessary for stealth, unlike in J-20. KF-X actually had a good stealthy canarded version, before the project imploded...
KFX-201

If well aligned then they produce no more drag or radarwave reflection than normal tailplanes do.

Now guys, do keep in mind that, the Teddy is just an initial concept only going into wind-tunnels! The final shit may look very different.
i liked kf x as a 4.5 jet its a tedbf af ,stealthy weapon pods will make it deadly also das like system will be cherry on top
 

SARTHAK

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 29, 2020
Messages
300
Likes
405
Country flag
i liked kf x as a 4.5 jet its a tedbf af ,stealthy weapon pods will make it deadly also das like system will be cherry on top
i know its kind weird but i want the body of kfx with retractable probe and sensor suite of mk2, this wud be enough for whole paf to piss off ,also compete with j20 ,j31 effectively
 

Latest Replies

Global Defence

New threads

Articles

Top