Sukhoi Su-35 Flanker-E

[smestarz]

Interesting write up of Su-35
Su-35 Flanker-E Multirole Fighter - Airforce Technology

This is interesting part...

Sensors

The X-band multimode phased array Irbis-E radar is supplied by Tikhomirov Scientific-Research Institute of Instrument Design (NIIP), based in Zhukovsky. Irbis-E is a high-performance radar designed for the Su-35 aircraft.

The 900mm passive phased array antenna is mounted on a hydraulic actuator for mechanical steering. The electronic steering provides azimuthal and elevation coverage of 60°. With both mechanical and electronic scanning the coverage is 120°.

The radar can detect low-observable and stealth aircraft, unmanned air vehicles and missiles with a radar cross section of 0.01m² at ranges to 90km. Radar modes include air-to-air, air-to-ground, air-to-sea, mapping, Doppler beam and synthetic aperture radar modes. It can detect and track up to 30 airborne targets with a radar cross section (RCS) of 3m² at ranges of 400km using track-while-scan mode.

Where would Rafale hide?

 

[sgarg]

Stealth characteristics are very high maintenance.

The aircraft's radar-absorbing metallic skin is the principal cause of its maintenance troubles, with unexpected shortcomings -- such as vulnerability to rain and other abrasion -- challenging Air Force and contractor technicians since the mid-1990s, according to Pentagon officials, internal documents and a former engineer.

High-Priced F-22 Fighter Has Major Shortcomings

Typhoon, Rafale no match for China's MMRCA

Typhoon, Rafale no match for China's MMRCA

In a potential India-China scenario, India will face China's J-20 and Su-35. Will Rafale be able to stay in the air for long?? This question must be asked.

 

[akshay m]

this is the future guys ( AMCA ,FGFA ,Tejas) , not su35 or rafale

 

[Bhagat Singh]

Re: Su-35 super flanker deal signed

Russians are struggling to match US in research and development due to lack of funding.

 

[sgarg]

Re: Su-35 super flanker deal signed

The Su-35 S 5th Gen plane can make sense only if

A) Russia is thinking to re-engine the present Su-35 with the new engines being designed for PAKFA
B) Making it more Electronically Stealth..

I guess the Russians have been working on Electronic stealth wherby they add avionics that Jam the Radar signals or manipulate them in a way that the plane does not appear on the radar at all, also rather than just give the technology to India they might try to make more money by giving Plane + tech. This in a way makes sense, also a note to Dassault, you could not be the only one with SPECTRA type EW suite

Don't you think EW is an area where India has made some real progress. Won't you want more Indian electronics on IAF planes?? India has major strength in software and design of electronic systems.
I think engine is not an issue. Engine is good enough.

 

[sgarg]

Re: Su-35 super flanker deal signed

Russians are struggling to match US in research and development due to lack of funding.

Russians are looking for collaboration with India.

 

[smestarz]

Re: Su-35 super flanker deal signed

Don't you think EW is an area where India has made some real progress. Won't you want more Indian electronics on IAF planes?? India has major strength in software and design of electronic systems.
I think engine is not an issue. Engine is good enough.

The engines of Su-35 are not stealthy nor are the ones for PAKFA, but if the PAKFA engines are used for the Indian Su-35S (if ordered) then it would be better as then we can learn to maintain these before we come to the challenge of PAKFA.

India is making good electronics, but I think we lack the knowledge to be the leaders YET. Whatever we can Indianize is good but then making general avionics is different thing and coming up with Cutting edge electronics is different and so far we have not achieved much.

 

[sgarg]

Re: Su-35 super flanker deal signed

the current engine is same for both.

ew suite could be indian origin.

 

[PaliwalWarrior]

Re: Su-35 super flanker deal signed

dont discount this as fake or debunked news

mmore chances of this turning out to be true

 

[smestarz]

Re: Su-35 super flanker deal signed

dont discount this as fake or debunked news

mmore chances of this turning out to be true

At present it looks fake news, but to come to think of it, it is more workable than Rafale,
Su-30 MKI lines are already there and there is no need to change them etc, India would have to pay almost US$ 10 billion to Dassault to set the lines in India and that too only for 126 planes.
Thus the cost of setting up the lines averaged for 126 planes comes to US$ 95 million a plane or in case of 189 planes then its US$ 63 million per plane. IAF has a nice end game, they would push for more than 300 Rafales all in name of national security. And then justify the cost of setting up the lines even then it comes to US$ 40 million more per plane. Further due to addition of such huge nos of Rafales we lose the balance of the air force. as you already seen, France uses 3 times more nos of Mirage 2000 than Rafale. ever wonder why?

Further in case of Egypt its ok too, because Egypt uses more than 200 single engined F-16, India only has 48 or so Mirage 2000 and those are being upgraded. thus automatically the cost of operation of IAF will more than double and even having a bigger budget will only aim at flying and maintaining the fleet. The chances of upgradation would be less. Remember few things, that War does not last long for a year, rather a few weeks, You can see that we have Su-30 MK since 1st July 2000, the Su-30 MKI was operational after two years, but in the past 15 years do you know if we have used them in anger or in action? No, because we feel we have credible deterrence. We have air force, we have navy, we have army and we have the Strategic missile units, it is not that our deep attack is only dependent on air force, its not, we have missiles that can strike till Shanghai. Assuming that China hits Mumbai/Delhi and we hit shanghai, still China has more to lose than us. in terms of value, morale and reputation. China cannot afford that.
Anyway the point to make is that we have spent Billions of dollars on Su-30 MKI and in past 1 and half decade we have not used them in anger, it does not mean its bad investment, but it means that its credible deterrence from enemies who would keep distance failing which they know what all can be unleashed.

Su-35 is similar to Su-30 MKI and so building them would not be a big leap, but what will be crucial is what avionics we get, Russia is in tough times and willing to work closely with India as they do need us more now. Thus even at 25% of the cost of the deal that RM informed the parliament, we can buy about 62-100 planes, at least we do not need to spend money for setting up lines.

I remember some Rafale supporters saying that Rafale is good choice because it has commonality of parts with Mirage 2000, but then Su-35 has more commonality in parts with Su-35 so much so that we can use our existing lines to produce them, and that is big big cost saver.

 

[PaliwalWarrior]

Re: Su-35 super flanker deal signed

At present it looks fake news, but to come to think of it, it is more workable than Rafale,
Su-30 MKI lines are already there and there is no need to change them etc, India would have to pay almost US$ 10 billion to Dassault to set the lines in India and that too only for 126 planes.
Thus the cost of setting up the lines averaged for 126 planes comes to US$ 95 million a plane or in case of 189 planes then its US$ 63 million per plane. IAF has a nice end game, they would push for more than 300 Rafales all in name of national security. And then justify the cost of setting up the lines even then it comes to US$ 40 million more per plane. Further due to addition of such huge nos of Rafales we lose the balance of the air force. as you already seen, France uses 3 times more nos of Mirage 2000 than Rafale. ever wonder why?

Further in case of Egypt its ok too, because Egypt uses more than 200 single engined F-16, India only has 48 or so Mirage 2000 and those are being upgraded. thus automatically the cost of operation of IAF will more than double and even having a bigger budget will only aim at flying and maintaining the fleet. The chances of upgradation would be less. Remember few things, that War does not last long for a year, rather a few weeks, You can see that we have Su-30 MK since 1st July 2000, the Su-30 MKI was operational after two years, but in the past 15 years do you know if we have used them in anger or in action? No, because we feel we have credible deterrence. We have air force, we have navy, we have army and we have the Strategic missile units, it is not that our deep attack is only dependent on air force, its not, we have missiles that can strike till Shanghai. Assuming that China hits Mumbai/Delhi and we hit shanghai, still China has more to lose than us. in terms of value, morale and reputation. China cannot afford that.
Anyway the point to make is that we have spent Billions of dollars on Su-30 MKI and in past 1 and half decade we have not used them in anger, it does not mean its bad investment, but it means that its credible deterrence from enemies who would keep distance failing which they know what all can be unleashed.

Su-35 is similar to Su-30 MKI and so building them would not be a big leap, but what will be crucial is what avionics we get, Russia is in tough times and willing to work closely with India as they do need us more now. Thus even at 25% of the cost of the deal that RM informed the parliament, we can buy about 62-100 planes, at least we do not need to spend money for setting up lines.

I remember some Rafale supporters saying that Rafale is good choice because it has commonality of parts with Mirage 2000, but then Su-35 has more commonality in parts with Su-35 so much so that we can use our existing lines to produce them, and that is big big cost saver.

the rumoour is that

Russia is offering upgraded Su35 at substantial discount to the rack rates of Su35

also it will share some tech parts with FGFA/PAKFA

also it is single pilot

and russia is keen to sell and also may be a food for weapons program

 

[smestarz]

Re: Su-35 super flanker deal signed

the rumoour is that

Russia is offering upgraded Su35 at substantial discount to the rack rates of Su35

also it will share some tech parts with FGFA/PAKFA

also it is single pilot

and russia is keen to sell and also may be a food for weapons program

Food for weapons is a reality as I understand, Due to the situation in ukraine, the west is not doing business with Russia and it has affected Russia and of course the oil prices. Thus if its Barter system, it is very much in Indias benefit.
also we should remember that a week back there was sudden rain all over india and that has destroyed most of Rabi crops, and this might affect some of our plans basically about ensuring the food prices remain in control

 

[PaliwalWarrior]

Re: Su-35 super flanker deal signed

Food for weapons is a reality as I understand, Due to the situation in ukraine, the west is not doing business with Russia and it has affected Russia and of course the oil prices. Thus if its Barter system, it is very much in Indias benefit.
also we should remember that a week back there was sudden rain all over india and that has destroyed most of Rabi crops, and this might affect some of our plans basically about ensuring the food prices remain in control

dont forget lacs of tonnes of grains rot in FCI compound better to bartar for weapons

 

[smestarz]

Re: Su-35 super flanker deal signed

dont forget lacs of tonnes of grains rot in FCI compound better to bartar for weapons

We might need some quantity of grain due to failure of rabi crops, but still it makes better sense, as USA wont export wheat to Russia, so the only other supplier is india

 

[sgarg]

Re: Su-35 super flanker deal signed

India can pay for its purchases. There is no need of barter. Mod will buy only as per budget. So there is no question of any barter etc.

 

[sgarg]

Re: Su-35 super flanker deal signed

The government has many options if rafale talks remain inconclusive. A follow on of su-30 - either a super-30 or su-35 is is very likely. A su-35 is a good contender as it has better parameters.

 

[akshay m]

Re: Su-35 super flanker deal signed

Sukhoi's serviceability to improve by year-end: Manohar Parrikar

Read more at:
Sukhoi's serviceability to improve by year-end: Manohar Parrikar - The Economic Times

The serviceability rate of multi-role fighter aircraft Sukhoi is likely to improve to 75 per cent by this year end from the current level of 56-57 per cent, Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar said today.

"We have been trying to improve the serviceability of Sukhois. It has improved by seven per cent in last 8-9 months to reach to 56-57 per cent," he said in Rajya Sabha, exuding hope that it would go up to 75 per cent by the year end.

A total of 35 incidents of engine failures in air or other engine-related problems have occured between January, 2013 and December last year.

To a question, Parrikar said the Russian Original Equipment Manufacturer had introduced a number of measures to contain and eliminate technical issues that have led to engine troubles in flight.

"OEM has offered nine modifications or technological improvements for implementation in the production of new aero engines and during overhaul of engines," he said

Parrikar said the Indian Air Force has also finalised long-term repair agreements with Russian OEMs to improve availability of aircraft for operational use. "25 new engines with modified technology have been procured from Russia," he said.

Replying to another question, Parrikar said two new ordnance factories at Nalanda in Bihar and Korwa in Uttar Pradesh were being set up and a total investment of Rs 1,216 crore has already been made on the two projects.

Read more at:
Sukhoi's serviceability to improve by year-end: Manohar Parrikar - The Economic Times

 

[akshay m]

Re: Su-35 super flanker deal signed

Rafale Vs. Su-30MKI - The New Indian Dogfight

russia has indeed offered india a super flanker or su35 MKI

Intensifying since the turn of the new year, you couldn't possibly have missed the roar of AL-31s in all talk of India's turbulent final dash for a Rafale jet deal. It's unmissable. The fact that the Su-30 MKI was pushed into the M-MRCA conversation by none other than India's defence minister ensured the notion strengthened quickly, unscathed by intrigue and rumours. And then, it exploded.


curious Russian media reportquotes junior minister in the MEA, former Army chief, Gen (Retd.) Vijay Kumar Singh as having said that the Su-30 was cheaper than the Rafale and more reliable.

In February, with the Su-30 vs. Rafale debate stewing for nearly two months to the consternation of Dassault, IAF chief Arup Raha was fairly buttonholed into saying, "There's M-MRCA and there's Sukhoi-30. The requirements are slightly different. And they have their own capabilities. They compliment each other but do not replace each other." A statement, it was immediately clear, that practically subverted what the Defence Minister had suggested.

At Aero India 2015, where the IAF chief made that comment, the spotlight also shined on friction between Sukhoi and the IAF over the unexplained seat ejection that caused the type's fifth accident last year. The Russians weren't happy. "When we are wrong, we will say so. When the Indian pilot is wrong, the IAF should not be shy to admit that," an irritated UAC officer told me at the time.

Dassault Aviation and the French government were always prepared for rumblings of power-play and suggestive pressure from the Indian MoD, but the speed at which the conversation heated up caught all involved by surprise. For Dassault, it would now be fighting on two fronts -- one with a confident new government that promised quick action either way. And two, with the Russians, India's largest supplier of military hardware, practically invited into the tense last lap of the M-MRCA fight by the Indian MoD. The French Defence Minister, who visited Delhi last month for the second time in less than two months, didn't bring up the Su-30 MKI. The French didn't have a direct play, political or otherwise. It was felt that things were too delicate at the negotiations table to poke at something that was, Paris understood, a direct message that India wasn't going to budge on final sticking points. Informed that it needed to work on a joint liability matrix with HAL for the license build programme, Dassault decided to bide its time.

Of course, by this time, plenty of journalism in India, Russia and France -- and the furious online military aviation subculture -- had gotten the Rafale and Su-30 to dogfight on paper. It wasn't until March that France's patience cashed out. It was a veritable neutron bomb on the Su-30's two month supercruise through arms & diplomatic circles, and even the French couldn't have expected such a break: a statement by Defence Minister Parrikar himself that the Su-30 fleet had serious problems.

For Dassault and the French government, the new conversation was

Here's the latest state of play:

Russia smells real blood. Through their Trade Office and the Embassy, an existing conversation about additional numbers of the Su-30 & upgrades of earlier units has been re-energised with the additional sweetener of a markedly higher degree of local content and sourcing on any additional Su-30s India may choose to license build in Nashik.
Livefist can confirm that Russia has also offered India the Su-35 'Super Flanker', but kept the details open. The type is officially on the table now with Russia inviting India to help configure a Su-35 'MKI'.
Russia is attempting to contain the twin damage of (a) information about engine trouble and fleet availability. Rosoboronexport has begun discussions with the IAF and HAL. And (b) the issue of the mysterious seat ejections. Both sides have decided to sort out the issue cordially and in private. It doesn't want to lose the momentum it received from the initial suggestion that more Su-30s could cushion the potential collapse of the M-MRCA.
Dassault and HAL are currently working at a furious pace to have something to show to the MoD in the next one week, though it remains unlikely that there will be anything for Prime Minister Modi & President Hollande to announce next week in Paris.
On March 18, Defence Minister Parrikar said, "They have to tell us whether they can do it or not. Can't keep waiting."

http://www.livefistdefence.com/2015...tml?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

 

[Khagesh]

Re: Su-35 super flanker deal signed

I think Shiv Aroor is just being stupid when he says:

3. Russia is attempting to contain the twin damage of (a) information about engine trouble and fleet availability. Rosoboronexport has begun discussions with the IAF and HAL. And (b) the issue of the mysterious seat ejections. Both sides have decided to sort out the issue cordially and in private. It doesn't want to lose the momentum it received from the initial suggestion that more Su-30s could cushion the potential collapse of the M-MRCA.

The fleet availability is not even an issue. It was a made up issue. smartaze has been shouting the most pertinent input in this regard for last one month . IAF does not stock enough.

Engine troubles is understandable considering the completely different approach to engines that the Russians take, compared to the West. Moreover DM has already committed that they changes to maintenance routine has been made and if from here on we do not hear about engine troubles before the normal (1000+1000 hours) then we can safely presume that the issue has been addressed correctly and Maintenance SOP prescribed or followed was in error.

Only real issue that I have seen people complain on is the mysterious ejection seats issue and since both sides have decided to resolve it in secret, it implies nobody (not the user. not the manufacturer) are sure what the hell it was. And we on the outside probably never will get to know about it.

There is not one word in Shiv Aroor's post, that the forum had not already discussed earlier.

 

[akshay m]

Re: Su-35 super flanker deal signed

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