Sukhoi Su-35 Flanker-E

[satish007]

Re: More detail revealed about Su35 Deal

well, some guys revealed some details about Su35 deals between China and Russia:.

They are bull shitting , the only reason is this time delivery free

 

[satish007]

Su35 Deal To Be Signed 1 Apr

$4-bn defence deal to be signed during Xi's visit
China president to meet industry leaders visit to boost economic ties between two countries

With an eye on large business deals, China President Xi is expected to visit Russia on March 28. This would be his first visit other countries since he took charge as president.

Among the highlights of his visit would be the signing of the $4-billion deal relating to the purchase of 48 Russia Su-35 Heavy multi-role combat aircraft ( HMRCA) manufactured by Sukhoi Company (JSC).

$10-bn defence deal to be signed during Xi's visit

Thank God! Finalement!!! :crusin7:

 

[limit_sky]

Re: Su35 Deal To Be Signed 1 Apr

'24' Su-35 became '48' good these Ruskies are improving their arm twisting skill each day................good Russia drain them out of $$ and put the same into PAK-FA development.

 

[arya]

Re: Su35 Deal To Be Signed 1 Apr

congratulated china we just talked ad talked Mmrca and you signed Hrca

that' s the diff between india and China .

We had upper hand with su30 mki in quality term but now china has the best bird in the sky .

 

[p2prada]

Re: Su35 Deal To Be Signed 1 Apr

That's the day when India will begin the construction of the Death Star.

Coincidence?

 

[Armand2REP]

Re: Su35 Deal To Be Signed 1 Apr

If Russia is going to sell India's mortal enemy their latest toys, should India continue doing business with them and why?

 

[satish007]

Re: Su35 Deal To Be Signed 1 Apr

If Russia is going to sell India's mortal enemy their latest toys, should India continue doing business with them and why?

Don't try to screw up India-Russia-China relationship.
Can you French provide free AC, Do you have any 5-generation aircraft?
and Can't you see that Russia is trying to union India and China to counter more and more aggressive western countries?
although India has not gave it a sh?t yet, she is founder of non-aligned movement.

 

[Sam2012]

Re: Su35 Deal To Be Signed 1 Apr

If Russia is going to sell India's mortal enemy their latest toys, should India continue doing business with them and why?

Than China our mortal enemy is pakistan , ru french & other european countries not selling arms to them ? inspite of that India has business with you nincompoops

Russia is our mainstay supplier & will remain since FGFA, MRTA , Nuclear submarine etc are in pipeline:thumb:

India knows its foreign policy better than u french , not neet to teach us

I have one question why are you selling Mistral-class amphibious assault ship , you are NATO & EU right ? why are u selling your defence equipment to the Arch Enemy of NATO & EU

 

[Armand2REP]

Re: Su35 Deal To Be Signed 1 Apr

Than China our mortal enemy is pakistan , ru french & other european countries not selling arms to them ? inspite of that India has business with you nincompoops

Pakistan is little threat to India, they can't even make this fly right...


What France sells to Pakistan is obsolete.

Russia is our mainstay supplier & will remain since FGFA, MRTA , Nuclear submarine etc are in pipeline:thumb:

Nah, Russia is replaced by France... MMRCA, MRTT, P75I, SRSAM, LHD and so on.

India knows its foreign policy better than u french , not neet to teach us

Someone needs to teach you if you spend money developing chili powder.

I have one question why are you selling Mistral-class amphibious assault ship , you are NATO & EU right ? why are u selling your defence equipment to the Arch Enemy of NATO & EU

Russia is not enemy of France, that is China.

 

[Sam2012]

Re: Su35 Deal To Be Signed 1 Apr

QUOTE=Armand2REP;696914]Pakistan is little threat to India, they can't even make this fly right...


What France sells to Pakistan is obsolete.



Nah, Russia is replaced by France... MMRCA, MRTT, P75I, SRSAM, LHD and so on.



Someone needs to teach you if you spend money developing chili powder.



Russia is not enemy of France, that is China.[/QUOTE]

Just for argument sake don't post :bs:

MMRCA is it signed ? any time it will be derailed , now since china has purchased Su-35 there are more change Eurofighter will come into picture
MRTT u won the competation is it signed again?
P75I will never come to you because we burnt our hand in scorpene deal & cost over run
SRSAM , Maithri deal is signed agreed
LHD RFQ is floated by Indian navy , ur telling as if Mistral class has already won the competation

You can never replace Russia
FGFA deal is worth 30 billion $ & will go further up
http://www.-------------------/2012/08/sukhoi-s-fgfa-stealth-fighter-to-roll.html
MRTA deal will also run in billions

Russia is not a enemy of NATO countries , joke of millenium keep it up

We agree pakistan is arch enemy , China is competitor & enemy

 

[indian_sukhoi]

Re: Su35 Deal To Be Signed 1 Apr

That's the day when India will begin the construction of the Death Star.

Coincidence?

Whats is Death Star??

Iam hearing this one for the first time

 

[Sam2012]

Re: Su35 Deal To Be Signed 1 Apr

Congrats chinese , may i know where the same will be deployed ?

I have a doubt u have J-10 , J-11 all top end 4++ generation aircraft as per you , why u want Su-35

Im sure u will rebutt by asking why u want MMRCA u have Su-30MKI & LCA , answer MMRCA is medium multirole aircraft

Su-30MKI in IAF is used as primary Air dominance fighter , LCA is 3++ generation aircraft as per Ex Air chief we go by that & yet to be inducted
Hence we need MMRCA

but u people have 4th generation , 4.5generation , 5th generation & almost all generation aircraft , then why u go for russian Su-35

 

[Defcon 1]

Re: Su35 Deal To Be Signed 1 Apr

Whats is Death Star??

Iam hearing this one for the first time

Death Star :ds:

 

[Vishwarupa]

Re: Su35 Deal To Be Signed 1 Apr

$4-bn defence deal to be signed during Xi's visit
China president to meet industry leaders visit to boost economic ties between two countries

With an eye on large business deals, China President Xi is expected to visit Russia on March 28. This would be his first visit other countries since he took charge as president.

Among the highlights of his visit would be the signing of the $4-billion deal relating to the purchase of 48 Russia Su-35 Heavy multi-role combat aircraft ( HMRCA) manufactured by Sukhoi Company (JSC).

$10-bn defence deal to be signed during Xi's visit

Thank God! Finalement!!! :crusin7:

Congrats!!!

Your government is indeed very fast:thumb:

But from when is the cloning starting & what will be name of the cloned aircraft( will it will be J( joke) series only)

 

[p2prada]

Re: Su35 Deal To Be Signed 1 Apr

Whats is Death Star??

Iam hearing this one for the first time

Don't worry. It is inferior to LCA.

 

[s002wjh]

Re: Su35 Deal To Be Signed 1 Apr

well this rumor been going out for months, years maybe. until i heard China say its gonna purchase, ill consider as rumor.

 

[Drsomnath999]

Why Su-35 would not pose any serious security threat to India's Rafale

After recent announcement that Chinese are going to buy Russian Su 35 there are rumours that russian Su 35 would pose a serious threat to Indian Rafale .Well how authentic is the news that chinese are going to buy Russian SU 35 is a different
issue but the point of this thread is to explain everyone that even if Chinese are indeed going to have Russian Su 35 it would have no serious threat to Rafale or even Super Su 30 mki which india going to have in future.

The thread is divided in 2 parts
1st part explains what are the decisive advantages rafale going to have over SU 35 ??
2nd part explains why Why india did a wise thing by upgrading SU 30 mki to Super Su 30 rather than buying Su 35?



DECISIVE ADVANTAGES OF RAFALE OVER SU 35


1) SURVIVABILITY ( which is most important due to less RCS ,less IR signature & spectra EW suite)

what would one do with a plane like flanker derivatives with a bigger rcs & less stealthy which cant survive in today' s high tech EW age with advanced SAMs ,awacs & enemy aesa enabled fighter to face ,even if it may be carrying 100 missiles ,having 10000km range & having 1000km detection range PESA radar which lacks LPI/can be jammed & 1000kn engine with higher IR signature & also heavy maintenance prone

2)5TH GEN AVIONICS & SENSOR SYSTEM

a) rafale'S FSO is far better than Su 35's OLS-35 IRST (Max Detection Range: 90 kilometer)in detection range fso detection range:130 km)
Seeker gets on track
OLS-35
also FSO NG is upcoming next

b)AREOS RECO NG
they dont have anything comparable to it

c)RBE 2 AESA RADAR
ADV: i) LPI
ii) less prone to electronic jamming
iii) more target scanning 40 targets

d) SPECTRA ew suite with ELINT/SIGNIT capabilty
SU 35 also has upgraded ew suite but Spectra has some extra features which make it far too superior compared to Russian self protection suite L175M Khibiny-M electronic-warfare self-defense system on SU-35

"¢ passive detection, localisation, identification and priorisation of radar emitters at distances up to 200 km+
The International Rafale forum • View topic - Rafale avionics - general overview

"¢ High angular accuracy compliant with DIRCM needs

http://www.mbda-systems.com/mediagallery/files/ddm_ng_ds.pdf

"¢ Passive detection and FIRING of GPS weapons with SPECTRA
http://www.dassault-aviation.com/fi...teur/AUTRES_DOCS/Fox_three/Fox_Three_nr_1.pdf

"¢ Passive detection and FIRING of AAM with SPECTRA like meteor & mica without turning on it's own aesa radar for stealth reason But yes SU 35's Khibiny can also provide guidance for passive-radiation guided missiles, such as the R-27EP but not active radar guided missiles

also Spectra NG is already on the development with upgraded GaN modules with far more range


f)Sensor fusion

rafale's awesome speciality is it's faster 5th gen system core processor which integrates data & information at much faster
rate than it's russian Su 35 competitor

RAFALE'S 5TH GEN SYSTEM CORE

http://www.dassault-aviation.com/fi.../Defence/2000/Mirage_2000-9_special_issue.pdf



here is a coool video about french avionics in rafale enjoy!!!







3)MUCH SUPERIOR ARMAMENTS

BVRAAMs
a)Meteor BVRAAM which is world's 1st operational ramjet powered missile which has world's longest No escape zone missile .Russia's have yet to field anything comparable to it though they are developing.
Dassault Aviation, acteur majeur de l'industrie aéronautique mondiale to-air-capabilities.html?L=1


b)MICA IR bvraam is one of the longest range IR guided missile till date now though Russian R 73 missile is very good missile but it lacks range of Mica IR which is more critical


AIR TO GROUND MISSILES

a) SCALP - it is a stealthy air launched cruise missile with superior guidance system
whats different about SCALP/storm shadow missile that makes it more stealthy than russian ALCM .?

ans: SCALP/STORM shadom
"¢ stealthy body shaping & coating

"¢ superior guidance & navigation system

"¢ scalp can be released at very low level

"¢ The flight path of the missile is planned before the mission on a dedicated system which supports up to 16 missiles. This capability enables the pilot to launch the missile from a relatively wide "window", which does not expose him to risk of detection and engagement with enemy air defenses.

http://www.dassault-aviation.com/fi...dacteur/Defence/Rafale/Fox_Three_N_14_UK2.pdf
http://www.mbda-systems.com/mediagallery/files/Storm-Shadow_ds.pdf
Storm Shadow / SCALP EG Cruise Missile


b)ASMP {Air-Sol Moyenne Portée}
it is french's strategic air launched cruise missile with supersonic speed with range of 500km .Russian SU 35 dont have any thing comparable to it as Klub is subsonic /Yakhont air launched is still in development but it lacks range .

in future india's case Brahmos air launched version / Brahmos 2 hypersonic version can be installed


c)HAMMER missile

"¢very effective & highly accurate (CEP-1m) proven in afganistan & libya

Sagem

"¢capabilty to be fired through SPECTRA in suppresion of enemy's airdefences (SAM radars)

"¢Sagem cites a range capability of more than 32nm from high altitude, or 8nm from low level. Launches can also be made from an off-axis angle of up to 90°, while up to six weapons can be fired against individual targets in a single pass and with just one trigger press."
France's Rafale fighter proves its 'omnirole' skills

meanwhile the russian KAB 500 /1000/ have inferior CEP(7m) & range compare to hammer




III) foreign made weapons


a)Brimstone (missile) air to surface anti armour missile

though it is not operational yet but growing requirement for a superior missile with less collateral damage is prompting french officials to procure it .though Indian may procure it.very effective & accurate
http://i1094.photobucket.com/albums/i441/somnath30/RAFALE/BRIMSTONEUNDERSTUDYFORRAFALE.jpg

b) GBU series bombs
cheaper than Sagem hammer useful in lesser value targets

c) Brahmos/ nirbhay
in case of Indian MMRCA case


SU 35 has advantage in case of anti radiation missile like kh 31P & variety of anti ship missiles in comparision to rafale's exocet AScM.Meanwhile Russians dont want to install foreign made weapons in their planes for security reasons




4)BETTER MULTI ROLE CAPABLE FIGHTER

both SU 35 & Rafale have been promoted as a multi role fighter but facts supports rafale that it is indeed a much better multi role fighter

a)switzerland leaked evaluation report
2008 analysis
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-E2bVIJBst...CWB4g/s1600/Swiss_eval_NWA1_appreciations.png

2009 analysis
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Lj-Vmw8lg...Wxe3A/s1600/Swiss_eval_NWA2_appreciations.png
http://kovy.free.fr/temp/rafale/pdf/12332.pdf
Rafale News: Switzerland, Evaluation report quick analysis


b)DUTCH EVALUATION REPORT IN 2001
http://img.over-blog.com/499x342/0/50/29/09//AvionJSFAnalysMd-Nrc080909-copie-1.jpg
Avion de chasse: les Pays-Bas ont-ils favorisé le F-35 ? - bruxelles2 Europe de la Défense
Dedefensa.org : To The Point, Context n°50 (March-April 2002) - The Road to Chaos and The Dutch Way


c) other missions which rafale has proven of not Su-35

i) buddy to buddy rufuelling in libya

ii) aerial recognaissance thanks to it's AREOS RECO ng in mali & libya

iii) one of the finest proven platform in SEAD & DEAD missions unlike Su 35 in Libya


Rafale is undisputedly a more mature & proven multirole fighter than Su 35


5) CUTTING EDGE FUTURE UPGRADES

Rafale has a tremendous future upgrades plan in form of F3+ variant

a) Uprated M 88 engine may be with thrust vectoring

b) Upgraded avionics & ECM suite like FSO IT, SPECTRA NG ,PDL NG & MAWS NG
Rafale Upgrade Ready in 2012

c)Rafale pilots can control & order UCAVS like (neuron) to strike targets, from rafale only

A high-profile future option is next-generation computing systems and data links to allow a two-seat Rafale B to control unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs) for reconnaissance and strike support. Reconnaissance UAVs would be able to identify targets and even designate them with a laser for attacks with guided munitions launched by the Rafale, or an armed UAV could perform the attacks directly. Communications between the Rafale and the UAVs could be performed over satellite links, and such communications links could also be used by the Rafale to obtain information from surveillance platforms, such as an AWACS or Joint-STARS aircraft.

The Dassault Rafale



d)RCS improvements like CFT , enclosed weapon pods ,redesigned air intake for higher thrust engines

The DEDIRA – (Demonstrateur de Discretion Rafale) PEA aims to
reduce Rafale's RCS with both passive and active measures, including an improved air intake design, NG RAM material, and a 'Stealth Cocoon' to allow semi-conformal weapons carriage.

{COURTESY: Jackonicko from Key Pub Forum THANK U FOR THE INFO MATE}



e)DIRCM(Directional based Infra Red countermeasures) compatible DDM NG

f) Conformal radar antenna Array located all around the airframe exactly like PAK-FA in wings & rear end
Rafale News: Rafale F3-O4T and beyond

Meanwhile Su 35 's future upgrades depends upon it's manufacturing order alone whether it is from Russian airforce /or from
export customers as recently 30-40 planes have been ordered from Russian airforce & Venezuela is known to be 1st export customer though the deal hasnt been signed yet.


6)MANEUVERABILITY

Well both fighters known to have supermanuveurabilty but SU 35 has known to have a an extra adavantage of TVC But still Rafale has proven in various aerial wargames it's manuveurablity skills .

I)RAFALE THRASHING TYPHOON 9-1 in Solenzara, 2009.

Enemy Brothers
Air&Cosmos - June 2010

Nine wins, one defeat

This initial result is not a fluke: the two next passes end also to the advantage of the Rafale. In total, 4 different engagements will take place in Corsica, for a total of 9 wins against 1 defeat for the french fighter. A nice demonstration of force that inspires the pilots the following moral: without mastery, power is nothing ... It is however an area where the Typhoon is victorious: the one of exports. While the Rafale is still looking for a first client, the Typhoon has already been sold to Saudi Arabia and Austria, and remains opposed to the Rafale in Switzerland and India.
Rafale News - Page 101

II)Rafale's War Game with F-22 (2009)

Duels over the sands
Air&Cosmos , June 2010

One defeat for five draws.

The U.S. Air Force, however, put strict conditions surrounding the confrontation: the Raptor will not participate in any BVR exercise with foreign aircraft. The American pilots only accept to confront in dogfight, 1 vs 1, against crews that participate in the exercise. Pilots of the 1/7 take their chance ... and the results will be rather promising: on 6 engagements, only one has resulted, according to the French aviators, with a straightforward victory for the F-22A. The other 5 have ended with a 'draw' ,a situation of equality that can be obtained by various parameters: Dual protracted beyond a preset time,crossing of the floor set for the exercice ...
2 main parameters give the advantage to the Raptor in dogfight: the thrust vector and the enormous power conferred by its 2 reactors, which give each twice the thrust of the M88! Although it is much heavier than the Rafale, the F22A maintains a formidable manceuvrability that allows it to leave the most delicate BFM situations; even if it loses a lot of energy during maneuvers with the highest angle of attack, this energy can be quickly recovered by its engines.
But the french pilots are careful to qualify the Raptor as invulnerable: "Facing an F-22A, the Rafale can be put in firing position but it must do it very quickly, lest the roles reversed if the battle drags on" summarizes a French aviator.

Rafale News - Page 101

III)RAFALE'S SUPERB PERFORMANCE IN AERIAL EXERCISE WITH MIRAGE 2000 & f16:

http://www.dassault-aviation.com/fi...resse/lbg07/defense/rafale/foxThree_nr_10.pdf

Though Su 35 has mesmerized everyone with it's awesome manuveurabilty in air shows but post stall manuveurabilty looks good only in airshows ,but in combat u need amazing turn rate without losing air speed much which rafale boasts to have .

CONCLUSION

Well Su 35 is a formidable fighter no doubt about it ,but rafale's advantages over Su 35 gives Rafale an edge in BVR warfare but in within VBR warfare Su 35 armed with R 73 missiles & TVC installled engines can give a tough fight to the Rafale.



Why india did a wise thing by upgrading SU 30 mki to Super Su 30 rather than buying Su 35?

1)Indian Super su 30 mki would have a cutting edge Zhuk-AE AESA radar meanwhile Irbis E has a PESA radar & Aesa is always technically superior to a PESA radar though it is expensive

2)Super Su -30 mki upgrades are still classified but what we know from sources along with an Aesa radar it is going to have
a) new cockpit may be larger size display units
b) upgraded mission computers ( probablly new system core)
c) New EW suite equivalent to Su 35's EW suite
d) Advanced Stealth characteristics ( more composites / better Ram coating)
e) Abilty to carry Brahmos ALCM ( certain structural modifications if required)
f) Even foreign weapon's & indigeious weapon integration could also be possible like Meteor ,Brimstone Astra & nirbhay

IAF's Sukhoi jets to be upgraded to fifth generation fighters
IAF to upgrade Su-30MKIs to 'Super Sukhoi' standard - Economic Times

3)The problem with Flanker derivatives is it's high RCS no matter how they upgrade it .The biggest drawback of flanker derivatives is it's Straight air intake design as it is a big blunder for stealth as they still havent installed a radar blocker in it's engine in SU 35 .So stealth wise both Su 35 & Super Su 30 are going to even & inferior to western 4.5 gen fighters counter part no matter how they boast of reduced RCS.So no point of buying SU 35 rather than why not upgrading Su 30 mki .

4)Russian Su 35 still would have some advantages in performance aspect like higher thrust engines, more range & higher T/W ratio but those advantages are not decisive nor overwhelming in comparision to Super su 30

5)Russia have always known to sold similiar weapons platform to china like SU -30 MkK ,yes the chinese are developing & inducting J11b & j15 but despite all that Russia always find ways to persuade China to buy it's weapons for financial reasons
So why should india buy a platform which has no guarantee that it wont be sold to china .

6)India & Russia are already partners in developing a 5th gen plane (PAK-FA) which is a futuristic fighter designed to meet future aerial threats .SO why waste money on buying a new plane like Su 35 which's capabilty can be matched by upgrading that similiar kind of plane with added features like that of Su 30 mki to Super Su 30 standard

 

[Sam2012]

Re: Why Su-35 would not pose any serious security threat to India's Ra

One more thing chinese pilots are so poor instead of shooting down an aircraft they will ramp on the enemy aircraft while intercepting

Hainan Island incident - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Shirman]

Re: Why Su-35 would not pose any serious security threat to India's Ra

@Mariner HK please dare to reply in this thread......lets have Rafale vs Su-35 with a dash of @Drsomnath999 vs @Mariner HK..........to have a better view.....


@Mods request you to merge this thread with MMRCA and the Chinese Threat :-http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/defence-strategic-issues/48741-mmrca-chinese-threat.html

 

[arnabmit]

Re: Why Su-35 would not pose any serious security threat to India's Ra

If India is sharing 50% development cost for Su-T50, does that mean that India is joint owner of the platform?

Does that mean Russia cannot sell the tech to anyone without India's consent?

So Su-T50 will be China-proof?