Sukhoi Su 30MKI

[Chinmoy]

MKI production line up in Nashik..

And finally, BRAHMOS integration.

 

[Kshithij]

The economy is what provides them a paycheck, the means to live. China is already on the edge of social unrest and the only thing keeping them from being overthrown is the promise of jobs and a better life. If they can't provide that they lose the Mandate of Heaven.

Even producing agriculture crops is economy. There is no need to make things overcomplicated. Except for food and a few critical goods, other goods can be compromised. Chinese are not animals without culture, indulging in orgies and selling their freedom for biscuits from government. China is not on the verge of any unrest. USA and Europe is on the verge of unrest and that is because of overemphasis on economy and overpromising. Chinese government seeks to preserve Chinese culture and is not existing on the promise of economic development.

We are seeing how Venezuela crisis is not making people go violent. USA is trying its best to foment trouble but still people are not going violent. Neither did Brazil or Russians when they went to recession. The animalistic behavious of extreme short sightedness is limited to America and Europe.

 

[Armand2REP]

Chinese government seeks to preserve Chinese culture and is not existing on the promise of economic development.

I agree with everything you said except for this nonsense.

 

[Kshithij]

I agree with everything you said except for this nonsense.

Economy is not controlled by government. Government can only facilitate what can be done but not do anything. Economy always depends on natural resource and utilisation efficiency. Government can utmost check the losses by controlling theft etc but not create natural resources. That is how states worked for thousands of years.

 

[Armand2REP]

Economy is not controlled by government. Government can only facilitate what can be done but not do anything. Economy always depends on natural resource and utilisation efficiency. Government can utmost check the losses by controlling theft etc but not create natural resources. That is how states worked for thousands of years.

But in China the economy IS controlled by the government, that is what a centrally planned economy does. If they can't make GDP numbers they infuse it with building projects until they hit it. China is among the most inefficient economies in the world, their $32 trillion debt pile is testament to it. Their inability to keep debt from growing is proof of it. If you really want to bring a banking crisis attack their oil supply. India needs some strategy to make any war with them too painful for China to sustain.

 

[Kshithij]

But in China the economy IS controlled by the government, that is what a centrally planned economy does. If they can't make GDP numbers they infuse it with building projects until they hit it. China is among the most inefficient economies in the world, their $32 trillion debt pile is testament to it. Their inability to keep debt from growing is proof of it. If you really want to bring a banking crisis attack their oil supply. India needs some strategy to make any war with them too painful for China to sustain.

Chinese debt is internal. China can simply do what cyprus did - expropriate bank savings. As long as debt is internal, it is manageable. USA, on the other hand has external debt. So do EU countries. So, I would say that Chinese financial situation is most robust. China is also a major exporter of goods. Hitting Chinese production will do more harm to other countries than to China. It is similar to attack on middle eastern countries like Saudi Arabia or Iran. It will harm other countries more.

 

[Sancho]

Having AIP doesn't help if your subs haven't matured enough to hide their signatures from both Sonar and MAD.

You might want to read up a bit on exercises of USN against AIP subs and what the crucial benefit of AIP is.

 

[Sancho]

If India decides to block any route, that means every country relying on that trade route will be blocked. You are not only blocking Chinese, but Japanese, Korean, South East Aisans, etc. In that case, the first one to challenge you won't be PLAN but USN as they guarantee the sailing freedom to everyone.

Hehe, that's not going to happen and I already gave a hint in my last post. Let's just say, geography plays in favour for India here.

 

[binayak95]

You might want to read up a bit on exercises of USN against AIP subs and what the crucial benefit of AIP is.

I know about the Swedish subs that got into killzone of their carrier. Hell, our own Kilo classes have 'killed' their SSNs.

That's not my point. Chinese subs haven't matured enough to be considered stealthy.

 

[Kshithij]

You might want to read up a bit on exercises of USN against AIP subs and what the crucial benefit of AIP is.

In case if Chinese submarine in IOR, they have to be nuclear to have such high endurance.AIP is meaningless for nuclear submarine

I know about the Swedish subs that got into killzone of their carrier. Hell, our own Kilo classes have 'killed' their SSNs.

That's not my point. Chinese subs haven't matured enough to be considered stealthy.

Have you considered that the carrier is nit well protected as threat oerfeppercis considered to be low. Hence there are leeways allowed and enemy submarine can approach close. In wartime,the situation will be different.

 

[no smoking]

Hehe, that's not going to happen and I already gave a hint in my last post. Let's just say, geography plays in favour for India here.

The point is not geography issue but economic and political issue: can India block Chinese transport while leave the route open for other countries? Keep this in mind: Chinese doesn't need to use Chinese ship to carry Chinese goods or imported material. The owner of the shipment can provide legitimate document at time to prove the goods are from Thailand/Vietname or the oil is imported by Philippine/Taiwan, etc.

 

[Armand2REP]

The point is not geography issue but economic and political issue: can India block Chinese transport while leave the route open for other countries? Keep this in mind: Chinese doesn't need to use Chinese ship to carry Chinese goods or imported material. The owner of the shipment can provide legitimate document at time to prove the goods are from Thailand/Vietname or the oil is imported by Philippine/Taiwan, etc.

Oil is only transported by a limited type of vessels. Their registries are less important than the port of call which would be monitored. Anything heading toward China that was not supposed to would be obvious. Sure you could smuggle a limited amount but the large tankers that actually make the difference would be stopped.

 

[Sancho]

That's not my point. Chinese subs haven't matured enough to be considered stealthy.

And there is your mistake, because AIP is = stealth capability for a sub! The major advantage, is that this kind of propulsion makes any sub very hard to detect, because the noise level is so low. So even an upgraded Agosta or U209 sub with AIP, gets far more deadlier, than a modern sub without AIP.

Think about the F15 Silent Eagle, or the advanced Super Hornet concepts. Both are old fighter designs, that gets harder to detect, by adding conformal fuel tanks and weapon bays/pods to them.

 

[Armand2REP]

And there is your mistake, because AIP is = stealth capability for a sub! The major advantage, is that this kind of propulsion makes any sub very hard to detect, because the noise level is so low. So even an upgraded Agosta or U209 sub with AIP, gets far more deadlier, than a modern sub without AIP.

Think about the F15 Silent Eagle, or the advanced Super Hornet concepts. Both are old fighter designs, that gets harder to detect, by adding conformal fuel tanks and weapon bays/pods to them.

The only thing AIP does is recharge the battery, it does not change the noise level of the submarine.

 

[Steven Rogers]

And there is your mistake, because AIP is = stealth capability for a sub! The major advantage, is that this kind of propulsion makes any sub very hard to detect, because the noise level is so low. So even an upgraded Agosta or U209 sub with AIP, gets far more deadlier, than a modern sub without AIP.

Think about the F15 Silent Eagle, or the advanced Super Hornet concepts. Both are old fighter designs, that gets harder to detect, by adding conformal fuel tanks and weapon bays/pods to them.

And those aguosta 90b submarines use MESMA not any advance AIP which is clearly generations behind the new gen fuel cells. Stirling AIP is way better than the mesma. That mesma submarine to stay under water at so deap where surveillance is not possible, but with that noise they are detected once they start to surface at a firing range. MESMA itself has mechanical systems which doesn't make submarine stealth but do contribute in noise.

Sent from my Aqua Ace II using Tapatalk

 

[nongaddarliberal]

Has anyone ever seen a pic or video of a sukhoi (27, 30, 35) with external fuel tanks? I've been scouring the net for such a pic with no luck. Do these jets NEVER use external fuel tanks?

 

[Kshithij]

Has anyone ever seen a pic or video of a sukhoi (27, 30, 35) with external fuel tanks? I've been scouring the net for such a pic with no luck. Do these jets NEVER use external fuel tanks?

Su30-MKI has 12000 litre (9.6-9.7ton) tank internally and is not meant to use external tanks. It can traevel from Kanyakumari to Srinagar without refuel on internal tank.

Su27 is a failure and not used in general and hence, I don't know about it. Su35 is upgraded version of Su30 with RCS reduction, composite body and even a bigger fuel tank of 13000 litres. It also does not need external fuel tank.

I am not sure if Su30 or Su35 absolutely can't use external fuel but the large tank was made to avoid external tanks altogether. For all practical purposes, Su35 and Su30 fuel tanks are the largest fuel tanks of all planes in operation

 

[Flame Thrower]

Has anyone ever seen a pic or video of a sukhoi (27, 30, 35) with external fuel tanks? I've been scouring the net for such a pic with no luck. Do these jets NEVER use external fuel tanks?

According to flanker documentary they've created 2*2000l external tanks. Back then I.e in early 1980s flanker had very thirsty engines. They've even filled the tail fins with fuel tanks. Also mid air refueling wasn't introduced by that time.

Refinement of flanker started, fuel thirsty engines were replaced with much better ones and the trend of refueling had begun.
Fuel tanks for flanker looked practically useless.

Go through the below documentary for more info on early days of Mig 29 & Su 27.



This one is a bit lengthy, but worth it.

 

[nongaddarliberal]

Su30-MKI has 12000 litre (9.6-9.7ton) tank internally and is not meant to use external tanks. It can traevel from Kanyakumari to Srinagar without refuel on internal tank.

Su27 is a failure and not used in general and hence, I don't know about it. Su35 is upgraded version of Su30 with RCS reduction, composite body and even a bigger fuel tank of 13000 litres. It also does not need external fuel tank.

I am not sure if Su30 or Su35 absolutely can't use external fuel but the large tank was made to avoid external tanks altogether. For all practical purposes, Su35 and Su30 fuel tanks are the largest fuel tanks of all planes in operation

But these jets are often shown refueling from tankers. External fuel tanks would negate that need and can save tankers for shorter legged planes like the Mirage and Jaguar.

 

[Kshithij]

But these jets are often shown refueling from tankers. External fuel tanks would negate that need and can save tankers for shorter legged planes like the Mirage and Jaguar.

The refuelling is for air superiority roles whereby a plane has to be airborne continually for several hours just patrolling the skies to prevent enemy from doing sudden moves. External fuel tanks are not effective in such roles as they induce drag and add unnecessary weight which reduces manueverability.

Air to air refuelling is never done in strike mode and it is not used for increasing range except in rare situations.