Sukhoi Su 30MKI

[sayareakd]

cant we take one of the SU 30 MKI, and wind tunnel model, make modifications for making the frame to reduce
RCS and internal weapons bay, into MKI, plus radar absorbing paint.


IAF should work with DRDO and HAL to make this.

 

[PaliwalWarrior]

$8 billion ....!

That too on old aircrafts ....?

Instead, add another $s in it and buy all new 192 F-15 Silent Eagle with make in India.

It will help to improve squadron strength also.

My two cents.

Su30 and ts upgrade are already make in India

 

[smestarz]

Some modifications can be done to the Frame to try and reduce RCS but adding internal weapon bay might be next to impossible, the place probably is between the two nacelles but then its better to design the centreline stores to be Stealthy, Adding centreline internal weapons bay might cause penalties (speed, range etc) but this is my assumption, if adding "doors" on the lower frame of the engine can enable Su-30 MKI to be stealthy then I guess we can call it Su-30 IM. (indian modernised)

cant we take one of the SU 30 MKI, and wind tunnel model, make modifications for making the frame to reduce
RCS and internal weapons bay, into MKI, plus radar absorbing paint.


IAF should work with DRDO and HAL to make this.

 

[Yumdoot]

RCS reduction is a very wide wish list. You could off course try to turn it into a Su-35S. But that would be almost like creating a new aircraft. In any case the Su-35S got made because the Russians wanted to transfer the tech to other people who could not be given the PAKFA tech transfer or would have little use for it.

S-35S did change quite a lot in the basic Su30MKI. And it costs well over a Su-30MKI. That deal will not likely come for USD 8 billion for 194 examples of it. And that kind of ambition, absolutely would suck up the money for FGFA too.

Su-30MKI has size in its favour. You could turn it into a super-jammer or a super-fast-AEW asset or a super-LOROP asset or a super-AAM-shooter or a super-Brahmos-shooter.

Or may be create options to do all of those. Looks like the super-Sukhoi will end up with all those roles.

 

[Yumdoot]

smestarz said: ↑
what we need is something that can bring engine ToT so that we can develop our own engines and Single crystal blades (SCB) for our own engines. and few other technology to help us make better engines

If someone wants to go to heaven.
Then first of all, he / she must die.
And no one can help about it.

Some people actually say that the SCB that we already have, too, were sourced by way of TOT. During the time the overpriced western deals were being gifted away at the country's expense.

And the S-70B deal cost us USD 1 billion for 16 examples to be supplied and 8 in options fee. That too for a lousy set of sensors.

 

[smestarz]

Su-30 MKI was developed from Su-30 (twin seat trainer actually) because IAF wanted two seater MRCA.
Su-35 has avionics from Su-30 as well as some new ones, Actually Su-35 is something like stop gap choice for Russia considering that PAKFA will be cheap to buy and use, and hence the regular flying can be done by the work horse of RuAF which would be Su-30SM and Su-35S

Su-35 and Su-30 MKI series are like parallel developments, Su-35 is more modern structure with lighter and more better air frame thanks to more modern development and modern avionics and engine, Su-30 MKI after upgrade to Super Sukhoi upgrades will have the benefit of never avioncs and new engines, But it will not have a lighter air frame, This difference will stay. Super Sukhoi after the upgrade will be better in terms of capabilities (with AESA and ability to carry Brahmos.. On other hand Su-35S has no yet plans to put Brahmos on Su-35

Su-30 MKI can be used as lot of things but that depends on the vision of its leaders which unfortunately in IAF has blind leadership which blindly chase anything French. We can develop Su-30 MKI to have an specialised EW aircraft carrying specilised avionics in pods and also having long range and short range missile that it can in a way dominate the enemy air space and jam the enemy radars and sensors.
Now there are some crazy ideas, which can be used for example, we try to make Su-30 MKI VLO by some external shaping or with RAM coating, if not then what we can do is have some small A2A missiles with very big RCS and Su-30 MKI when on enemy terrirtory can fire them and make the enemy believe that its much bigger force. The range of these missiles shoud be say 50 kms or so and these can be carried on MERS, My logic here is simple if you cannot hide, better to look much bigger than you are. We can develop these "dummy planes with large RCS" to conduct pre determined action or emission to give the enemy the feeling that this is the real plane, in fact if it has link with the mother plane, the pilots can get more data from an external Airborne Radar.

RCS reduction is a very wide wish list. You could off course try to turn it into a Su-35S. But that would be almost like creating a new aircraft. In any case the Su-35S got made because the Russians wanted to transfer the tech to other people who could not be given the PAKFA tech transfer or would have little use for it.

S-35S did change quite a lot in the basic Su30MKI. And it costs well over a Su-30MKI. That deal will not likely come for USD 8 billion for 194 examples of it. And that kind of ambition, absolutely would suck up the money for FGFA too.

Su-30MKI has size in its favour. You could turn it into a super-jammer or a super-fast-AEW asset or a super-LOROP asset or a super-AAM-shooter or a super-Brahmos-shooter.

Or may be create options to do all of those. Looks like the super-Sukhoi will end up with all those roles.

 

[smestarz]

Su-30 MKI was developed from Su-30 (twin seat trainer actually) because IAF wanted two seater MRCA.
Su-35 has avionics from Su-30 as well as some new ones, Actually Su-35 is something like stop gap choice for Russia considering that PAKFA will be cheap to buy and use, and hence the regular flying can be done by the work horse of RuAF which would be Su-30SM and Su-35S

Su-35 and Su-30 MKI series are like parallel developments, Su-35 is more modern structure with lighter and more better air frame thanks to more modern development and modern avionics and engine, Su-30 MKI after upgrade to Super Sukhoi upgrades will have the benefit of never avioncs and new engines, But it will not have a lighter air frame, This difference will stay. Super Sukhoi after the upgrade will be better in terms of capabilities (with AESA and ability to carry Brahmos.. On other hand Su-35S has no yet plans to put Brahmos on Su-35

Su-30 MKI can be used as lot of things but that depends on the vision of its leaders which unfortunately in IAF has blind leadership which blindly chase anything French. We can develop Su-30 MKI to have an specialised EW aircraft carrying specilised avionics in pods and also having long range and short range missile that it can in a way dominate the enemy air space and jam the enemy radars and sensors.
Now there are some crazy ideas, which can be used for example, we try to make Su-30 MKI VLO by some external shaping or with RAM coating, if not then what we can do is have some small A2A missiles with very big RCS and Su-30 MKI when on enemy terrirtory can fire them and make the enemy believe that its much bigger force. The range of these missiles shoud be say 50 kms or so and these can be carried on MERS, My logic here is simple if you cannot hide, better to look much bigger than you are. We can develop these "dummy planes with large RCS" to conduct pre determined action or emission to give the enemy the feeling that this is the real plane, in fact if it has link with the mother plane, the pilots can get more data from an external Airborne Radar.

RCS reduction is a very wide wish list. You could off course try to turn it into a Su-35S. But that would be almost like creating a new aircraft. In any case the Su-35S got made because the Russians wanted to transfer the tech to other people who could not be given the PAKFA tech transfer or would have little use for it.

S-35S did change quite a lot in the basic Su30MKI. And it costs well over a Su-30MKI. That deal will not likely come for USD 8 billion for 194 examples of it. And that kind of ambition, absolutely would suck up the money for FGFA too.

Su-30MKI has size in its favour. You could turn it into a super-jammer or a super-fast-AEW asset or a super-LOROP asset or a super-AAM-shooter or a super-Brahmos-shooter.

Or may be create options to do all of those. Looks like the super-Sukhoi will end up with all those roles.

 

[Zebra]

....... what we need is something that can bring engine ToT so that we can develop our own engines and Single crystal blades (SCB) for our own engines. and few other technology to help us make better engines

May be P&W can help in Kaveri engine.

Not sure though.

 

[Zebra]

Some people actually say that the SCB that we already have, too, were sourced by way of TOT. During the time the overpriced western deals were being gifted away at the country's expense.

And the S-70B deal cost us USD 1 billion for 16 examples to be supplied and 8 in options fee. That too for a lousy set of sensors.

Sir, you missed the point, I am afraid.

I was talking about price difference.

Compare it with this one ---> http://gulfbusiness.com/us-approves-sale-10-mh-60-seahawk-helicopters-saudi-arabia/#.V57wVI9OIao

 

[manutdfan]

Found this image on **********.

 

[smestarz]

This seems to be Fan art, which it is,
S shaped intakes and Angling the fin, will mean changing air frame also then the plane has to be tested for aerodynamic performance. This is going to need more research and testing than using RAM coating,
Better would be for some of Su-30 MKI to carry some dummy missiles that have similar RCS as Su-30 MKI and then when close to enemy territory fire these so that enemy feels that there is a squad of Su-30 MKI active. and that in a way will stretch their defences too. I mean they will put at least 8 fighter planes in air to intercept 4 "Su-30 MKIs" So, if you cannot be invisible then better to look more big.

 

[HariPrasad-1]

What shall be the RCS?

cant we take one of the SU 30 MKI, and wind tunnel model, make modifications for making the frame to reduce
RCS and internal weapons bay, into MKI, plus radar absorbing paint.


IAF should work with DRDO and HAL to make this.

I think it shall be as difficult as making a new aircraft. We can make some changes allowed in the limits of Aerodynamic. The biggest change we can make is to make engine part stealth by redesign intake and inclining fins. Bubble canopy is also a good measure . Rest of the part should be taken care by RAM. Engine blades and fins are biggest source of radar exposure. Actually MKIs are not going to stealth but they will reduce RCS substantially.

 

[Zebra]

What shall be the RCS?

I think it shall be as difficult as making a new aircraft. We can make some changes allowed in the limits of Aerodynamic. The biggest change we can make is to make engine part stealth by redesign intake and inclining fins. Bubble canopy is also a good measure . Rest of the part should be taken care by RAM. Engine blades and fins are biggest source of radar exposure. Actually MKIs are not going to stealth but they will reduce RCS substantially.

What about ability to carry BrahMos.

Needs some kind of structural reinforcement ....?....!

 

[smestarz]

SAAB has put some modifications on Gripen engine intake where even though the intakes are not serpentine, the incoming radar waves are deflected internally so that they do not reach the engine fan blades and thus ensure that RCS is maintained, The same concept can be used in Su-30 MKI to ensure that the RCS can be reduced specially the frontal RCS

What shall be the RCS?


I think it shall be as difficult as making a new aircraft. We can make some changes allowed in the limits of Aerodynamic. The biggest change we can make is to make engine part stealth by redesign intake and inclining fins. Bubble canopy is also a good measure . Rest of the part should be taken care by RAM. Engine blades and fins are biggest source of radar exposure. Actually MKIs are not going to stealth but they will reduce RCS substantially.

 

[sayareakd]

We need honey comb design just ahead of engine. Same one used for snipers scopes. It allow light to enter but on the way back it is blocked. Same way if we can have carbon fiber allowing radar beams in, including air and trap the beam inside.

This can be done. We have all the tech available but the question is, will it work?

 

[smestarz]

Carbon fiber internal to the engine may not be productive, if part of it breaks we risk to blow up the engine

We need honey comb design just ahead of engine. Same one used for snipers scopes. It allow light to enter but on the way back it is blocked. Same way if we can have carbon fiber allowing radar beams in, including air and trap the beam inside.

This can be done. We have all the tech available but the question is, will it work?

 

[Narasimh]

Let them get F-15s first.

Then we will compare it.

that's the opposite of the actual process to compare then decide to acquire. And why do you think IAF would consider F-15? US India still have lot of issues to resolve like CISMOA, BECA or now as its called LEMOA.
Till that time there is no impetus for India to buy American fighters! The fighters bought will be liable to inspection by the US that too in Base of operations which could be any of the FOBs

 

[Zebra]

that's the opposite of the actual process to compare then decide to acquire. And why do you think IAF would consider F-15? US India still have lot of issues to resolve like CISMOA, BECA or now as its called LEMOA.
Till that time there is no impetus for India to buy American fighters! The fighters bought will be liable to inspection by the US that too in Base of operations which could be any of the FOBs

Bcz "there is a new symphony in play".

 

[Indx TechStyle]

Bcz "there is a new symphony in play".

Or you do still hope that we gonna wave tails in front of your western masters?

 

[Zebra]

Or you do still hope that we gonna wave tails in front of your western masters?

You don't have any other options left.

Think it again.

OR

Think in this way ......

How much they spent on Su-30 MKI till date .....!
Now they gonna spend $30 millions on each of them again.
And after it, they will still cry for short in squadron strength.