Sukhoi Su 30MKI

[lixun]

@lixun rather throwing one-liners and baseless statements, how about you explain why you think Su-30MKI is NOT an air superiority fighter?

What are the requirements of an air superiority fighter according to you ?

su27PU-SU30MKK-J16-Homeland Air Defense
SU27UB-SU30MKI-SU30SM-Frontline Aviation

 

[lixun]

In the Flanker family the best variant is Su-35, later Su-30MKI/Su-30MS, and later latest upgrades of Su-27s or early SU-30s and its Chinese clones, the less capable variant is Su-33/J-15 and last Su-34

su35>J16>J11BS>SU30MKI>J11B
The su34 is a light bomber, the successor to the su24

 

[MirageBlue]

Su 30SM is a project that initially tried to borrow money from China for research and development. But at that time, it was rejected by China on the grounds that the NO11M radar was immature and other flight performance was not substantially improved. Sukhoi and IAPO turned to India again. They first delivered a batch of Su 30K with the Su 27UB standard to lure Indians into the bait, and repeatedly threatened Indians that they would sell the research and development results to China. as a threat to successfully get India to spend money to complete all the development work of su30MKI.

A load of rubbish in here..

 

[lixun]

A load of rubbish in here..

How do you see casually, su30MKI problems to be much more than what I said, do you think 60% of the available rate is how come

 

[MiG-29SMT]

su35>J16>J11BS>SU30MKI>J11B
The su34 is a light bomber, the successor to the su24

Su-35 has better engine performance wise the better aircraft

J-16 is basically a Su-30MKK with Chinese equipment, performance wise can not compete in agility with MKI simply because TVC nozzles increase turn rate around 9% so it has 2 or 3 degrees higher turn rate and better post stall handling.

AESA radars do not become auomatically better, they are more expensive, but performance wise the only advantage is AESA radars use more frequencies independently due to more TRs and have lower failure rate.

Su-35 can still detect F-22 as long as it can have enough power density, so J-16 does not mean is better, first because radar still use the same EM waves regardless is PESA or AESA .

 

[lixun]

Su-35 has better engine performance wise the better aircraft

J-16 is basically a Su-30MKK with Chinese equipment, performance wise can not compete in agility with MKI simply because TVC nozzles increase turn rate around 9% so it has 2 or 3 degrees higher turn rate and better post stall handling.

AESA radars do not become auomatically better, they are more expensive, but performance wise the only advantage is AESA radars use more frequencies independently due to more TRs and have lower failure rate.

Su-35 can still detect F-22 as long as it can have enough power density, so J-16 does not mean is better, first because radar still use the same EM waves regardless is PESA or AESA .

View attachment 106698

View attachment 106699

TVC will not increase a better turning rate. TVC is essentially an energy-for-angle thing. It is impossible to detect F22 with high power alone.
AESA is not susceptible to interference, has stronger signal processing capability, stronger anti-interference ability, lower signal-to-noise ratio, and has many benefits
Also, I did not expect that the cockpit of su30MKI is so old, and it is far from su30sm.

 

[lixun]

Su-35 has better engine performance wise the better aircraft

J-16 is basically a Su-30MKK with Chinese equipment, performance wise can not compete in agility with MKI simply because TVC nozzles increase turn rate around 9% so it has 2 or 3 degrees higher turn rate and better post stall handling.

AESA radars do not become auomatically better, they are more expensive, but performance wise the only advantage is AESA radars use more frequencies independently due to more TRs and have lower failure rate.

Su-35 can still detect F-22 as long as it can have enough power density, so J-16 does not mean is better, first because radar still use the same EM waves regardless is PESA or AESA .

View attachment 106698

View attachment 106699

PESA is more powerful, this statement is not accurate. Since the development of solid-state device technology, in the X-band and below, the power of solid-state transmitters is completely comparable to or even higher than that of electric vacuum transmitters. So in these frequency bands, solid-state devices have more advantages. AESA widely uses solid-state device transmitters, but AESA are more powerful.
Some AESA are also transmitters of electric vacuum devices, and under the same conditions, the power is not lower than PESA at all. Technically speaking,AESA is more difficult than PESA, and the overall structure is more complicated. This is why the phased array was dominated by PESA in the early days, and then practical active arrays gradually appeared. Technically speaking, the active array is naturally much better, and can more easily achieve multi-target tracking, digital beamforming, and so on.

 

[MiG-29SMT]

TVC will not increase a better turning rate. TVC is essentially an energy-for-angle thing. It is impossible to detect F22 with high power alone.
AESA is not susceptible to interference, has stronger signal processing capability, stronger anti-interference ability, lower signal-to-noise ratio, and has many benefits
Also, I did not expect that the cockpit of su30MKI is so old, and it is far from su30sm.

Fig. 4.- Increased Sustained Turn Rate with TVNs.

https://www.icas.org/ICAS_ARCHIVE/ICAS2000/PAPERS/RESERVED/ICA0534.PDF

seems ITP says you are ignorant in matters of thrust vectoring
There are several types of Thrust Vectoring Nozzles. For ... Eurofighter, in which the introduction of Thrust Vectoring ... Increased Sustained Turn Rate with T\/,s.
https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/afc6/b4799245aa80d49ad5afb58293ad27a16ed6.pdf

Daniel Ikaza, ITP project manager - nozzles, says Dasa's study shows that a Eurofighter flying at 30,000ft (9,150m) and a speed of M1.8 requires a 4° upward flaperon deflection to maintain level flight. A 5° upward nozzle deflection instead would enable the aircraft to fly "clean" and reduce the required engine thrust by 3%.

Under the same conditions, but in a sustained turn, where the pitch element of the control surface deflection was 6° up, this could be reduced to 2° combined with a 4° nozzle-up component. In this configuration lift coefficient would be increased by 14%, translating into a 9% improvement in turn rate. Take-off distance could be cut by at least 25%.

https://www.flightglobal.com/ej200-thrust-vectoring-backed/32225.article

 

[MiG-29SMT]

PESA is more powerful, this statement is not accurate. Since the development of solid-state device technology, in the X-band and below, the power of solid-state transmitters is completely comparable to or even higher than that of electric vacuum transmitters. So in these frequency bands, solid-state devices have more advantages. AESA widely uses solid-state device transmitters, but AESA are more powerful.
Some AESA are also transmitters of electric vacuum devices, and under the same conditions, the power is not lower than PESA at all. Technically speaking,AESA is more difficult than PESA, and the overall structure is more complicated. This is why the phased array was dominated by PESA in the early days, and then practical active arrays gradually appeared. Technically speaking, the active array is naturally much better, and can more easily achieve multi-target tracking, digital beamforming, and so on.

AESA have narrower field of view than PESA, add more expensive and Su-35 has 400km of range radar, in few words the transmitter can be powerful enough to achieve that

 

[lixun]

Fig. 4.- Increased Sustained Turn Rate with TVNs.

https://www.icas.org/ICAS_ARCHIVE/ICAS2000/PAPERS/RESERVED/ICA0534.PDF

seems ITP says you are ignorant in matters of thrust vectoring
There are several types of Thrust Vectoring Nozzles. For ... Eurofighter, in which the introduction of Thrust Vectoring ... Increased Sustained Turn Rate with T\/,s.
https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/afc6/b4799245aa80d49ad5afb58293ad27a16ed6.pdf



View attachment 106701


Daniel Ikaza, ITP project manager - nozzles, says Dasa's study shows that a Eurofighter flying at 30,000ft (9,150m) and a speed of M1.8 requires a 4° upward flaperon deflection to maintain level flight. A 5° upward nozzle deflection instead would enable the aircraft to fly "clean" and reduce the required engine thrust by 3%.

Under the same conditions, but in a sustained turn, where the pitch element of the control surface deflection was 6° up, this could be reduced to 2° combined with a 4° nozzle-up component. In this configuration lift coefficient would be increased by 14%, translating into a 9% improvement in turn rate. Take-off distance could be cut by at least 25%.

https://www.flightglobal.com/ej200-thrust-vectoring-backed/32225.article

This is an instantaneous pointing ability, not a continuous turning rate. During this process, a lot of energy will be lost. You can watch the exercises of su30mki and F15C. By the way, it depends on what the Americans say. When India uses TVC, Su 30mki was shot down. when

Of course I know that TVC is divided into many types, but the principle is the same.Does EJ200 have TVC?

 

[lixun]

AESA have narrower field of view than PESA, add more expensive and Su-35 has 400km of range radar, in few words the transmitter can be powerful enough to achieve that

If N035 has a detection range of 400KM, I will give you 1,000 dollars

 

[MiG-29SMT]

This is an instantaneous pointing ability, not a continuous turning rate. During this process, a lot of energy will be lost. You can watch the exercises of su30mki and F15C. By the way, it depends on what the Americans say. When India uses TVC, Su 30mki was shot down. when

Of course I know that TVC is divided into many types, but the principle is the same.Does EJ200 have TVC?

you are ignorant Ikaza who is a Spaniard says 9% increase of sustained turn rate


Fig. 4.- Increased Sustained Turn Rate with TVNs.

so basically you are dodging the ball Su-30MKI is better than Su-30/J-16 clone, you like it or not you admited or not

 

[MiG-29SMT]

If N035 has a detection range of 400KM, I will give you 1,000 dollars

A Generation 4++ Fighter Jet
The Sukhoi Su-35S carries a 30mm cannon, has 12 hard points and can detect targets at more than 400 kilometers, while its radar can track up to 30 targets simultaneously. The fighter has range in excess of 3,500 kilometers without refueling.

Sukhoi Su-35S: Capabilities Out of This World

Rostec technologies and designs behind the fighter jet’s excellent handling and performance

rostec.ru

 

[lixun]

you are ignorant Ikaza who is a Spaniard says 9% increase of sustained turn rate


Fig. 4.- Increased Sustained Turn Rate with TVNs.

so basically you are dodging the ball Su-30MKI is better than Su-30/J-16 clone, you like it or not you admited or not

I took a closer look. The EJ200 uses a pitch/yaw balance beam nozzle (P/YBBN) similar to J10B, which can deflect 20 degrees in any direction, and the axially symmetric vector nozzle (AVEN) flows through the nozzle. Part of the supersonic jet changes its direction to achieve thrust vectoring, which can prevent pressure fluctuations from being introduced into the engine and causing the compressor to stall. The deflector plates of the exhaust nozzle are arranged in a ring in a circle, and the deflection is controlled by 3 hydraulic actuators arranged at 120 degree intervals, and the actuators have independent power units. The nozzle can be deflected by 17 degrees to any angle, and the generated axial and lateral thrust is transmitted to the engine through the nozzle.
This TVC can improve the sustained turn rate

Su30mki uses 2D nozzles, and several states of 2D-CD nozzles are convergence, downward deviation, deceleration, and reverse thrust. Does not improve the sustained turn rate

The 2D spout used in F15

 

[lixun]

A Generation 4++ Fighter Jet
The Sukhoi Su-35S carries a 30mm cannon, has 12 hard points and can detect targets at more than 400 kilometers, while its radar can track up to 30 targets simultaneously. The fighter has range in excess of 3,500 kilometers without refueling.

Sukhoi Su-35S: Capabilities Out of This World

Rostec technologies and designs behind the fighter jet’s excellent handling and performance

rostec.ru

Just look at this kind of publicity, the measurement standards are different, the results are very different

 

[MiG-29SMT]

I took a closer look. The EJ200 uses a pitch/yaw balance beam nozzle (P/YBBN) similar to J10B, which can deflect 20 degrees in any direction, and the axially symmetric vector nozzle (AVEN) flows through the nozzle. Part of the supersonic jet changes its direction to achieve thrust vectoring, which can prevent pressure fluctuations from being introduced into the engine and causing the compressor to stall. The deflector plates of the exhaust nozzle are arranged in a ring in a circle, and the deflection is controlled by 3 hydraulic actuators arranged at 120 degree intervals, and the actuators have independent power units. The nozzle can be deflected by 17 degrees to any angle, and the generated axial and lateral thrust is transmitted to the engine through the nozzle.
This TVC can improve the sustained turn rate
View attachment 106706
View attachment 106707
Su30mki uses 2D nozzles, and several states of 2D-CD nozzles are convergence, downward deviation, deceleration, and reverse thrust. Does not improve the sustained turn rate
View attachment 106708
The 2D spout used in F15
View attachment 106710

look stop saying falsehood you are not Ikaza but a guy with lack of humility, Thrust vectoring increase sustained turn rate just by vectoring the thrust, however you lack of honesty reflects a troll, a Chinese troll that distorts things and say falsehood and stupidities, TVC increase turn rates simply by this equations

This site has moved to a new URL

You like it o not Su-30MKI will turn better than J-16/Su-30 clone

 

[lixun]

look stop saying falsehood you are not Ikaza but a guy with lack of humility, Thrust vectoring increase sustained turn rate just by vectoring the thrust, however you lack of honesty reflects a troll, a Chinese troll that distorts things and say falsehood and stupidities, TVC increase turn rates simply by this equations

View attachment 106711

This site has moved to a new URL

You like it o not Su-30MKI will turn better than J-16/Su-30 clone

Your picture only shows the pitch control capability of the aircraft,
Also, su30mki is essentially a Russian guinea pig. It is not certain whether the flight controller of su30mki can effectively control the TVC.
Also, J16 is not a clone of SU30

 

[MiG-29SMT]

Your picture only shows the pitch control capability of the aircraft,
Also, su30mki is essentially a Russian guinea pig. It is not certain whether the flight controller of su30mki can effectively control the TVC.
Also, J16 is not a clone of SU30

the formulas say you are a clown
[
Forces are vector quantities having a magnitude and a direction. The resulting acceleration, velocity and displacement of the aircraft are also vector quantities which can be determined by Newton's second law of motion and the rules of vector algebra. There are two component equations for the force on an aircraft. One equation gives the the net vertical force Fv, and the other gives the net horizontal force Fh. If we denote the thrust by the symbol T, the lift by L, the drag by D, and the weight by W, the usual force equations for an aircraft in level flight are:

Vertical: L - W = Fv

Horizontal: T - D = Fh

The quantity (T - D) is called the excess thrust and is related to the aircraft's ability to accelerate. Good fighter aircraft have high excess thrust. The ability to climb and maneuver involves the vertical net force as well as the excess thrust. Since the thrust force is already a large force for fighter aircraft, designers have sought ways to bring this force into the vertical equations of motion. With new mechanical systems it is possible to deflect the engine exhaust from the nozzle and cant the thrust vector at an angle. We will call this angle c. The resulting force equations are shown on the slide:

Vertical: L - W + T sin(c) = Fv

Horizontal: T cos(c) - D = Fh

where sin and cos are the trigonometric sine and cosine functions. The thrust now appears in the vertical force equation. This allows the aircraft to climb faster than an aircraft without thrust vectoring and to execute sharper turns than an un-vectored aircraft. For moderate angles, the cos is nearly equal to one, so the aircraft still has high excess thrust. The horizontal acceleration ah and vertical acceleration av of the aircraft are given by:

av = Fv /m

ah = Fh /m

This site has moved to a new URL

As a conclusion Su-30MKI turn sharper than Su-30/J-16

 

[Tang]

Your picture only shows the pitch control capability of the aircraft,
Also, su30mki is essentially a Russian guinea pig. It is not certain whether the flight controller of su30mki can effectively control the TVC.
Also, J16 is not a clone of SU30

This way j11 and J16 are all Chinese guinea pig, we don't know if their engine works or not?

Don't be stupid of the internet, it will stay that way for your generations to see.

Your grandson will laugh at your theory.

 

[lixun]

the formulas say you are a clown
[
Forces are vector quantities having a magnitude and a direction. The resulting acceleration, velocity and displacement of the aircraft are also vector quantities which can be determined by Newton's second law of motion and the rules of vector algebra. There are two component equations for the force on an aircraft. One equation gives the the net vertical force Fv, and the other gives the net horizontal force Fh. If we denote the thrust by the symbol T, the lift by L, the drag by D, and the weight by W, the usual force equations for an aircraft in level flight are:

Vertical: L - W = Fv

Horizontal: T - D = Fh

The quantity (T - D) is called the excess thrust and is related to the aircraft's ability to accelerate. Good fighter aircraft have high excess thrust. The ability to climb and maneuver involves the vertical net force as well as the excess thrust. Since the thrust force is already a large force for fighter aircraft, designers have sought ways to bring this force into the vertical equations of motion. With new mechanical systems it is possible to deflect the engine exhaust from the nozzle and cant the thrust vector at an angle. We will call this angle c. The resulting force equations are shown on the slide:

Vertical: L - W + T sin(c) = Fv

Horizontal: T cos(c) - D = Fh

where sin and cos are the trigonometric sine and cosine functions. The thrust now appears in the vertical force equation. This allows the aircraft to climb faster than an aircraft without thrust vectoring and to execute sharper turns than an un-vectored aircraft. For moderate angles, the cos is nearly equal to one, so the aircraft still has high excess thrust. The horizontal acceleration ah and vertical acceleration av of the aircraft are given by:

av = Fv /m

ah = Fh /m

This site has moved to a new URL

As a conclusion Su-30MKI turn sharper than Su-30/J-16

I seem to be back in middle school,
So your picture can explain that TVC provides maneuverability, but can it explain that it provides a higher sustained turn rate? In other words, have you considered the complicated aerodynamic drag? Have you considered the complicated aerodynamic rudder surface of the aircraft? You just gave a very simple 3D model