Sukhoi Su 30MKI

[Chandragupt Maurya]

Guys. Do take time to listen to this Courtesy: Defence Decode.

So if Su30mki gets UTTAM AESA Radars it will be able to integrate Meteor , AIM-120D and any missile available to us

 

[Swiftfarts]

Isn't that essentially a growler configuration? From the official manufacturer -

Yes.

 

[Swiftfarts]

Chinese use more powerful jammers than one on SU 30. jammers on J-16D resembles american ALQ-218 jamming pods. Chinese SU 35 carry L-175М10-35 , L-265M10-02 khibiny-M EW sytem , it would have made it difficult for us, probably the reason why we went for rafale.

 

[Neptune]

You are wrong. The SU-30MKI is currently flying with the DARE fully-integrated AESA wideband jammer, and that is what is seen on the video. The news media is behind the curve, as usual. But this means that the SU-30MKI can now operate its radar at full power whilst also jamming Chinese missiles and radars. The DARE team was able to fully integrate the AESA based ECM system with the BARS radar (which is a hybrid AESA/PESA radar, thanks to software and hardware updates). This is great news, because the Chinese just lost any BVR advantage they may have had as a result of the J-20 / PL-15 combo, since the IAF can now jam everything the PLA/PLAAF can throw at it. The SU-30MKI is now a growler. Congratulations to the Indian Air Force.

So DARE has an SAP-14 centerline jammer equivalent? Which is what is visible in the video from the looks of it. So far I have only seen the wing tip mounted High Band Jammer (HBJ) from DARE. Perhaps I’m not well informed enough but I cannot find any information from DARE about anything similar to an SAP-14.

The size and shape of whatever that MKI is carrying looks suspiciously similar to the SAP-14. I also think that the SAP-14/518 would be more effective over the DARE counterpart simply because Russia has the source codes and the secrets of the the S-400, as well as dozens of other SAMs operates by China and Pakistan which are either directly sourced from Russia/Soviet Union or are copies. The other advantage Russia has is that it directly and successfully jammed US electronics warfare aircraft as well as monitored and or ‘sniffed’ out many NATO and Israeli weapons launches over Syria which includes everything from AIM-120s to Scalps to Tomahawks and everything in-between. Russia has been collecting this data almost daily for 5 years over Syria by using ELINT aircraft as well as actually testing and using the SAP-14/518 which has even had Turkish missiles fired at SU-34 which were evaded.

 

[Chandragupt Maurya]

If UTTAM AESA Radars get integrated in TEJAS MK1A then it’s 100% certain that Su30mki will use the scaled up version of UTTAM AESA Radars

 

[Swiftfarts]

So DARE has an SAP-14 centerline jammer equivalent? Which is what is visible in the video from the looks of it. So far I have only seen the wing tip mounted High Band Jammer (HBJ) from DARE. Perhaps I’m not well informed enough but I cannot find any information from DARE about anything similar to an SAP-14.

The size and shape of whatever that MKI is carrying looks suspiciously similar to the SAP-14. I also think that the SAP-14/518 would be more effective over the DARE counterpart simply because Russia has the source codes and the secrets of the the S-400, as well as dozens of other SAMs operates by China and Pakistan which are either directly sourced from Russia/Soviet Union or are copies. The other advantage Russia has is that it directly and successfully jammed US electronics warfare aircraft as well as monitored and or ‘sniffed’ out many NATO and Israeli weapons launches over Syria which includes everything from AIM-120s to Scalps to Tomahawks and everything in-between. Russia has been collecting this data almost daily for 5 years over Syria by using ELINT aircraft as well as actually testing and using the SAP-14/518 which has even had Turkish missiles fired at SU-34 which were evaded.

Russian SU 34 use khibiny L-175V Khibiny-10V jammer while there SU 30SM uses a modified and more advance version of SAP 14 centerline pod called khibiny-U.

 

[Swiftfarts]

If UTTAM AESA Radars get integrated in TEJAS MK1A then it’s 100% certain that Su30mki will use the scaled up version of UTTAM AESA Radars

Scaled up UTTAM will be a disaster, since despite having a 1 meter diameter antenna, TRM count will be around 1250 while it should be over 2000 at minimum for that size. AN/APG 77(v)1 has around 2000 TRM for a 900mm diameter antenna.

 

[spikey360]

correct link

IAF Chief hints at design flaw in Su-30 MKI

www.sps-aviation.com

@spikey360, please check above post

I am afraid it is you who has not read the full article.
The article cannot even confirm if the crash was due to pilot error or not.

Do you understand what is meant by FBW? I hope you do.
Did you know, if you disable the FBW in a B2 Spirit, it will crash immediately. So, it must be a pretty pathetic bomber right?
FBW errors if anything may indicate a software error more than a hardware thing, Fly By Wire are computer controlled systems, please at least read what you are posting about. Did you know, every modern aircraft non-glider in the world is now FBW?
This article is 8 years old, it is extremely foolish to think that India or Russia are so incapable that they cannot fix a flaw in their frontline jet in 8 years.
Furthermore, your perception of what NAK Browne said differs from our perception (or perhaps even the perception of NAK Browne himself!) While he points to a possible fixable design flaw, you have made it an ultimate unworkable catastrophic flaw. Nothing could be further from the truth.
I would advise you to refrain from defaming national assets with motivated and coloured information aka disinformation.

 

[spikey360]

For all its hype, I'd love to see how Rafale performs in a battle.
Flying behind F-22 Raptors in Syria for some routine bombing mission, fanbois see a giant killer in Rafale, I'd be waiting to see their wet dreams squashed to pulp. Irony is Rafale is a national asset too, and it is borderline anti-national to wish for its failure, neither do I. But I'd love to see how effective this Rafale really is.

 

[vishnugupt]

I am afraid it is you who has not read the full article.
The article cannot even confirm if the crash was due to pilot error or not.

Do you understand what is meant by FBW? I hope you do.
Did you know, if you disable the FBW in a B2 Spirit, it will crash immediately. So, it must be a pretty pathetic bomber right?
FBW errors if anything may indicate a software error more than a hardware thing, Fly By Wire are computer controlled systems, please at least read what you are posting about. Did you know, every modern aircraft non-glider in the world is now FBW?
This article is 8 years old, it is extremely foolish to think that India or Russia are so incapable that they cannot fix a flaw in their frontline jet in 8 years.
Furthermore, your perception of what NAK Browne said differs from our perception (or perhaps even the perception of NAK Browne himself!) While he points to a possible fixable design flaw, you have made it an ultimate unworkable catastrophic flaw. Nothing could be further from the truth.
I would advise you to refrain from defaming national assets with motivated and coloured information aka disinformation.

I think you didn't understand my stand ( like mostly others ).I shared links just to tell members that there are occasions where IAF had thrown MKI to dogs for their own comfort. I'm the one who denying these issues and calling them farse/lies.
My point was, IAF never countered such allegations neither currected their previous statements against Su-30mki which helped to built a very poor reputation for MKIs by dalaals/lobbies. It seems difficult for MKI to recover from this bad reputation in future.

 

[vishnugupt]

For all its hype, I'd love to see how Rafale performs in a battle.
Flying behind F-22 Raptors in Syria for some routine bombing mission, fanbois see a giant killer in Rafale, I'd be waiting to see their wet dreams squashed to pulp. Irony is Rafale is a national asset too, and it is borderline anti-national to wish for its failure, neither do I. But I'd love to see how effective this Rafale really is.

Rafale is not a silver bullet it doesn't guarantee a victory. Most People here want to fight on paper like; If a jet-A have 150km range BVR missile and Jet-B have 100km range BVR missile then they immediately declare Jet-A a winner which is not the case most of the time. Battle strategies, knowing your/enemies weakness and strength, geography, play a major role in a War.
For so called "Fan Bois" I can remember how they used to praise Su-30mki before Balakot but after Balakot, MKI turned villain overnight.

 

[spikey360]

I think you didn't understand my stand ( like mostly others ).I shared links just to tell members that there are occasions where IAF had thrown MKI to dogs for their own comfort. I'm the one who denying these issues and calling them farse/lies.
My point was, IAF never countered such allegations neither currected their previous statements against Su-30mki which helped to built a very poor reputation for MKIs by dalaals/lobbies. It seems difficult for MKI to recover from this bad reputation in future.

Agreed. They threw it under the bus. Yep, we both are on same page.

 

[mist_consecutive]

Rafale is not a silver bullet it doesn't guarantee a victory. Most People here want to fight on paper like; If a jet-A have 150km range BVR missile and Jet-B have 100km range BVR missile then they immediately declare Jet-A a winner which is not the case most of the time. Battle strategies, knowing your/enemies weakness and strength, geography, play a major role in a War.
For so called "Fan Bois" I can remember how they used to praise Su-30mki before Balakot but after Balakot, MKI turned villain overnight.

The bold part. This is the most irritating thing after Balakot episode. AF(indirectly) & news channels are peddling since we have an 80km BVR (we have ~120-30km semi-active BVR) and Pakistan has 110km, we are somehow doomed.

BVR combat is very complicated, scenario-based, and depends on multiple factors. 99% of the time if you shoot your BVR at its maximum range it will fall into the ground before even reaching the target (spare the scenario if your target maneuvers away).
The probability of AIM-120 successfully shooting down a jet from 100km away is nearly zero if the target jet has even a prehistoric RWR and basic sense of BVR combat.

 

[Swiftfarts]

For all its hype, I'd love to see how Rafale performs in a battle.
Flying behind F-22 Raptors in Syria for some routine bombing mission, fanbois see a giant killer in Rafale, I'd be waiting to see their wet dreams squashed to pulp. Irony is Rafale is a national asset too, and it is borderline anti-national to wish for its failure, neither do I. But I'd love to see how effective this Rafale really is.

Well in subcontinent , Rafale is a killer. For Chinese with there J 20, probably not.

 

[Swiftfarts]

Rafale is not a silver bullet it doesn't guarantee a victory. Most People here want to fight on paper like; If a jet-A have 150km range BVR missile and Jet-B have 100km range BVR missile then they immediately declare Jet-A a winner which is not the case most of the time. Battle strategies, knowing your/enemies weakness and strength, geography, play a major role in a War.
For so called "Fan Bois" I can remember how they used to praise Su-30mki before Balakot but after Balakot, MKI turned villain overnight.

Well in subcontinent it is a silver bullet, there is nothing in Paki or Chinese arsenal matching it other than probably J 20. SU 30mki need a western equipment upgrade if it wants to remain relevant.

 

[vishnugupt]

Well in subcontinent it is a silver bullet, there is nothing in Paki or Chinese arsenal matching it other than probably J 20. SU 30mki need a western equipment upgrade if it wants to remain relevant.

Do you understand what does Context mean?? I was saying in context of a war.
When did I say Paki or China have its equivalent?
I meant to say, Rafale alone can't decide the fate of a war. There are many more aspects which contributes largely. Like Geography, None could negate advantage of a landscape but you can negate the effect of Machine by using counter measures. So Rafale is no silver bullet though it will certainly increase our capability.
Silver bullet= Brahmastra ( loosely )= never missed.

By the way, Why Su-30mki needs western upgrade to stay relevant?? Why not Russian or Indian??

 

[Swiftfarts]

By the way, Why Su-30mki needs western upgrade to stay relevant?? Why not Russian or Indian??

Russians are decades behind west. Even there best technology going in SU 57 fall short in front of rafale forget F 35, F 22.

 

[vishnugupt]

Russians are decades behind west. Even there best technology going in SU 57 fall short in front of rafale forget F 35, F 22.

What stopped you to say Russian are century behind from the West??
Similarly, I can say the west is 30 years behind from Russia in context of S-500 missile defence. Or in maneuverability. So where Roads ends??
Joke apart, Russia has been fighting in Syria with impunity by forcing No-fly-zone unilaterally. NATO had used everything including what you have mentioned, but failed miserably.

 

[spikey360]

Russians are decades behind west. Even there best technology going in SU 57 fall short in front of rafale forget F 35, F 22.

Your assessment is based on what, actually? How did you arrive at the figure "decades"?

 

[Neptune]

Your assessment is based on what, actually? How did you arrive at the figure "decades"?

The irony is that Russia will be the first to implement an unanimous wingman by 2024, ahead of schedule to even the US. The SU-57 also has radar coverage and sensors not found on either Rafale or F-22.