Sukhoi Su 30MKI

[AUSTERLITZ]

Correction - According to Janes 1000 missiles were procured.300 r73, 400 r77, 300 r27.
250 X-31(kh31pk) long range(110-160km) anti radiation air to ground missiles for mki also set to be acquired.
Small number of rvv bd/ r37m apparently already recieved and testing.

 

[Defcon 1]

T

Final user trial was done in Sep 2017 and Preproduction trial done in Sep 2018.
You will never see again any further trial for Astra for your rest of life.
Reason for mentioning Next-generation missile development was that DRDO has told many times in past that Astra mk2 development only commence once MK 1 development is completed

Sep 2018 was the final development trial

https://www.financialexpress.com/de...ce-next-year-another-successful-test/1336126/

 

[vishnugupt]

T


Sep 2018 was the final development trial

https://www.financialexpress.com/de...ce-next-year-another-successful-test/1336126/

So what is stopping to commence user trial ?? its been a year still no user trial why ?? Please give us more detail about it , like when it wil take place, what was stopping it for 1 year?? any System failure or Upgrades??

 

[Defcon 1]

So what is stopping to commence user trial ?? its been a year still no user trial why ?? Please give us more detail about it , like when it wil take place, what was stopping it for 1 year?? any System failure or Upgrades??

Dude it is well known that user trials and the final induction will happen in 2019-20. Do not understand why you are acting like a baby here and asking questions whose answers are already in public domain.

 

[WolfPack86]

Indian Air Force (IAF) has signed deals with Russia worth about USD700 million for 300 R-27 (AA-10 ‘Alamo’) infrared-guided (IR) or semi-active radar-guided, 300 R-73E (AA-11 ‘Archer’) IR-guided, 400 R-77 (AA-12 ‘Adder’) active radar-guided missiles.

 

[vishnugupt]

Dude it is well known that user trials and the final induction will happen in 2019-20. Do not understand why you are acting like a baby here and asking questions whose answers are already in public domain.

https://www.drdo.gov.in/drdo/pub/newsletter/2018/Dec_18.pdf
IAF already conducted user trial back in September 2018, You can call it final development trial or user trial because both parties are actively involved in testing. ( Guidelines have been changed for the strategic DRDO's projects, now user and developer have to participate since from beginning to speed up induction )
Paper says missile will be inducted in IAF in 2019. that means, 1 year is needed for production, logistics and signing contracts, not for user trial.
Don't go by some pathetic journalist"s logic. If you apply same logic then Tejas Mk1 yet to be inducted because IAF still evaluating its advantages and deficiencies so it can be used optimally in wartime that's why Tejas yet to be deployed on forwarding bases. same is happing with Astra. These test would be done by User alone without help from DRDO after induction in order to understand their weapon worthiness so it can be used optimally. In case if they find any problem or need an upgrade then they can go back to DRDO anytime. But again you can't say it, user, trial its call post-induction support from the developer

 

[Defcon 1]

https://www.drdo.gov.in/drdo/pub/newsletter/2018/Dec_18.pdf
IAF already conducted user trial back in September 2018, You can call it final development trial or user trial because both parties are actively involved in testing. ( Guidelines have been changed for the strategic DRDO's projects, now user and developer have to participate since from beginning to speed up induction )
Paper says missile will be inducted in IAF in 2019. that means, 1 year is needed for production, logistics and signing contracts, not for user trial.
Don't go by some pathetic journalist"s logic. If you apply same logic then Tejas Mk1 yet to be inducted because IAF still evaluating its advantages and deficiencies so it can be used optimally in wartime that's why Tejas yet to be deployed on forwarding bases. same is happing with Astra. These test would be done by User alone without help from DRDO after induction in order to understand their weapon worthiness so it can be used optimally. In case if they find any problem or need an upgrade then they can go back to DRDO anytime. But again you can't say it, user, trial its call post-induction support from the developer

Please help me understand where exactly are you disagreeing with me? The link posted by you also says that it was the final development trial done is Sep 2018. You are the only one claiming that it was user trial. Anyways, even if your argument is accepted that user trial is done and one year is required for production, logistics and signing contract, it still means that Astra hasn't been rejected which was my original point all along. So if you accept that Astra hasn't been rejected, why are you still arguing?

 

[vishnugupt]

Please help me understand where exactly are you disagreeing with me? The link posted by you also says that it was the final development trial done is Sep 2018. You are the only one claiming that it was user trial. Anyways, even if your argument is accepted that user trial is done and one year is required for production, logistics and signing contract, it still means that Astra hasn't been rejected which was my original point all along. So if you accept that Astra hasn't been rejected, why are you still arguing?

haha......
You were insisting Astra is not inducted and user trials yet to be done.
To my initial conversation, I said, rejected for Tejas only due to the weight issue, not for all. Now even heavier missiles being procured with the same ranges for Su 30 MKI and Astra ignored with 50 orders. One can say Astra will take 3-4 months more but Russian will also take time to deliver it.
All I wanted to say. Air Chief is going and he is securing last kickback money in the name of emergency procurement

 

[Defcon 1]

haha......
You were insisting Astra is not inducted and user trials yet to be done.
To my initial conversation, I said, rejected for Tejas only due to the weight issue, not for all. Now even heavier missiles being procured with the same ranges for Su 30 MKI and Astra ignored with 50 orders. One can say Astra will take 3-4 months more but Russian will also take time to deliver it.
All I wanted to say. Air Chief is going and he is securing last kickback money in the name of emergency procurement

Yes I am still saying that Astra is not inducted and that is still true, and as per all information in public, user trials are still not done. You said the same in your last post.

Astra is not rejected for Tejas. This is your imagination. You are simply crying that Astra is being rejected when induction timelines are already in the public domain.

There is no evidence of any corruption here. It is only kids like you who claim such stupid things without any evidence. I bet you don't have a job, people in a professional space understand what a serious thing it is to accuse someone of corruption, and how laughable it is to do so without any evidence.

 

[vishnugupt]

Yes I am still saying that Astra is not inducted and that is still true, and as per all information in public, user trials are still not done. You said the same in your last post.

Astra is not rejected for Tejas. This is your imagination. You are simply crying that Astra is being rejected when induction timelines are already in the public domain.

There is no evidence of any corruption here. It is only kids like you who claim such stupid things without any evidence. I bet you don't have a job, people in a professional space understand what a serious thing it is to accuse someone of corruption, and how laughable it is to do so without any evidence.

You are getting offended for no reason. In fact, you have nothing to back your claim just Pathetic journalist sources. ( shooting in blind like Assuming I don't have a job)
Astra has been rejected in favour of Isreali AAM. and You will never see Astra on Tejas MK1. ( Maybe you can see on LSP )
I think it would be unnecessary to make you count IAF officials involvement in scams with evidence. ( it is worthy to educate you that there is a difference between wrongdoings and scams, Morally both are same but But by law you can convict only for scams, not wrongdoing) Buying foreign maal on the cost of indigenous product in the name of emergency is, wrongdoing where eventually country suffer.
And lets bet about my job ?? how much you would like to put money ?? If you want to add something in bet?? .. please feel free to suggest .. then we will put money

 

[Defcon 1]

You are getting offended for no reason. In fact, you have nothing to back your claim just Pathetic journalist sources. ( shooting in blind like Assuming I don't have a job)
Astra has been rejected in favour of Isreali AAM. and You will never see Astra on Tejas MK1. ( Maybe you can see on LSP )

At least I have given sources (No matter how pathetic you choose to call them). You have given no source, none NADA. Give me a single source which says Astra has been rejected instead of shooting out of your hip

I think it would be unnecessary to make you count IAF officials involvement in scams with evidence. ( it is worthy to educate you that there is a difference between wrongdoings and scams, Morally both are same but But by law you can convict only for scams, not wrongdoing) Buying foreign maal on the cost of indigenous product in the name of emergency is, wrongdoing where eventually country suffer.

Do not lie now. You talked about IAF chief getting kickback in post #2306. So you were clearly talking about scams, not wrongdoing. You are simply desperately trying to change what you said because you have no evidence to offer either for scam or wrongdoing.

 

[vishnugupt]

At least I have given sources (No matter how pathetic you choose to call them). You have given no source, none NADA. Give me a single source which says Astra has been rejected instead of shooting out of your hip





Do not lie now. You talked about IAF chief getting kickback in post #2306. So you were clearly talking about scams, not wrongdoing. You are simply desperately trying to change what you said because you have no evidence to offer either for scam or wrongdoing.

1) User trial of Astra:- Let me explain you simple economics, You went to a sweet shop and shop keeper offers you just one piece for a taste for free ( developer bear that cost ) which is your user trial then you order 5 kg sweets and take home. at home, you eat it or distribute it. In case, a day later you developed food poising then you go back to the shop to take your money back or you will abuse him or will not buy that sweet again. Same for IAF, why IAF will buy 50 missiles for user trial? it's a developer job to provide missile free of cost, a standard mechanism for all weapon seller. Why on earth a user will buy 50 missiles which he has not tested?? what if missile got rejected then who will compensate IAF?? DRDO?( Not talking about where customer put money because the requirement is not viable on the industry level or LCA navy where the government asked them to pay for the viability of a project)
2) If IAF has not rejected Astra for Tejas then who is stoping ADA to install it?? Astra is ready Tejas is also ready then who stoping them ?? The IAF! Because IAF gave a tailored requirement where Astra got automatically rejected, At least for MK1 so ADA is not pursuing that. Now you tell us when is it going to happen ?? when we are going to see Astra as a Primary BVR for Tejas MK1? Probably never. But you will say show me, proof, where they have said. let me explain to you with another example; Indian Army never said they rejected Arjun tank in the last 40 years, In fact they inducted but have you got follow up orders ?? yes 120 more but can you consider Arjun project as winner ?? No!. they are buying T-90 in thousands Hence Arjun got rejected

No Scam is known from the start. there are many factors which raise suspicion. IAF buying from Russia very same missiles which they had criticised all the time. Now suddenly they became best missiles

To understand an essence of an argument you have to understand what kickback means. It could be money ( hard case) post-retirement plan, 3-4 Luxury vacation per anum for rest of life, Job to next kin or set up a company ..... so so ( VVIP chopper scam, If you have followed Platus aircraft deal then you come to know the ART of rejecting an indigenous HTT 40, remember )

 

[Defcon 1]

1) User trial of Astra:- Let me explain you simple economics, You went to a sweet shop and shop keeper offers you just one piece for a taste for free ( developer bear that cost ) which is your user trial then you order 5 kg sweets and take home. at home, you eat it or distribute it. In case, a day later you developed food poising then you go back to the shop to take your money back or you will abuse him or will not buy that sweet again. Same for IAF, why IAF will buy 50 missiles for user trial? it's a developer job to provide missile free of cost, a standard mechanism for all weapon seller. Why on earth a user will buy 50 missiles which he has not tested?? what if missile got rejected then who will compensate IAF?? DRDO?( Not talking about where customer put money because the requirement is not viable on the industry level or LCA navy where the government asked them to pay for the viability of a project)
2) If IAF has not rejected Astra for Tejas then who is stoping ADA to install it?? Astra is ready Tejas is also ready then who stoping them ?? The IAF! Because IAF gave a tailored requirement where Astra got automatically rejected, At least for MK1 so ADA is not pursuing that. Now you tell us when is it going to happen ?? when we are going to see Astra as a Primary BVR for Tejas MK1? Probably never. But you will say show me, proof, where they have said. let me explain to you with another example; Indian Army never said they rejected Arjun tank in the last 40 years, In fact they inducted but have you got follow up orders ?? yes 120 more but can you consider Arjun project as winner ?? No!. they are buying T-90 in thousands Hence Arjun got rejected

No Scam is known from the start. there are many factors which raise suspicion. IAF buying from Russia very same missiles which they had criticised all the time. Now suddenly they became best missiles

To understand an essence of an argument you have to understand what kickback means. It could be money ( hard case) post-retirement plan, 3-4 Luxury vacation per anum for rest of life, Job to next kin or set up a company ..... so so ( VVIP chopper scam, If you have followed Platus aircraft deal then you come to know the ART of rejecting an indigenous HTT 40, remember )

Such long posts but no simple sources showing astra is rejected or there is corruption in Russian missile deals. But the guy had balls to call my sources stupid.

Also a new claim has been made, that IAF gave a tailored requirement for Astra? Do you have any source of that requirement or is that your imagination too?

 

[Shekhar Singh]

1) User trial of Astra:- Let me explain you simple economics, You went to a sweet shop and shop keeper offers you just one piece for a taste for free ( developer bear that cost ) which is your user trial then you order 5 kg sweets and take home. at home, you eat it or distribute it. In case, a day later you developed food poising then you go back to the shop to take your money back or you will abuse him or will not buy that sweet again. Same for IAF, why IAF will buy 50 missiles for user trial? it's a developer job to provide missile free of cost, a standard mechanism for all weapon seller. Why on earth a user will buy 50 missiles which he has not tested?? what if missile got rejected then who will compensate IAF?? DRDO?( Not talking about where customer put money because the requirement is not viable on the industry level or LCA navy where the government asked them to pay for the viability of a project)
2) If IAF has not rejected Astra for Tejas then who is stoping ADA to install it?? Astra is ready Tejas is also ready then who stoping them ?? The IAF! Because IAF gave a tailored requirement where Astra got automatically rejected, At least for MK1 so ADA is not pursuing that. Now you tell us when is it going to happen ?? when we are going to see Astra as a Primary BVR for Tejas MK1? Probably never. But you will say show me, proof, where they have said. let me explain to you with another example; Indian Army never said they rejected Arjun tank in the last 40 years, In fact they inducted but have you got follow up orders ?? yes 120 more but can you consider Arjun project as winner ?? No!. they are buying T-90 in thousands Hence Arjun got rejected

No Scam is known from the start. there are many factors which raise suspicion. IAF buying from Russia very same missiles which they had criticised all the time. Now suddenly they became best missiles

To understand an essence of an argument you have to understand what kickback means. It could be money ( hard case) post-retirement plan, 3-4 Luxury vacation per anum for rest of life, Job to next kin or set up a company ..... so so ( VVIP chopper scam, If you have followed Platus aircraft deal then you come to know the ART of rejecting an indigenous HTT 40, remember )

Why such a long post? Just show the link of your authentic source and we will easily accept your argument.

 

[vishnugupt]

Why such a long post? Just show the link of your authentic source and we will easily accept your argument.

Such a long post to explain reality. source link posted but you want to hear direct from DRDO/IAF/ADA which is not possible for me. you keep on asking where is source like JNU type intellectual while ignoring basics. please! do tell me who buy 50 missiles for user trial it is not norm for any user trial
You can post me source as you people open your mouth only when you have proof/source so tell me about the date of Astra"s user trial and When it going to be primary BVR missile for Tejas Mk1 ?? show me your source??
https://www.hindustantimes.com/indi...-test-fired/story-1KXLnNJoMeaoOVovnlh5KI.html
https://www.financialexpress.com/de...ce-next-year-another-successful-test/1336126/
Read carefully, Active participation of IAF itself indicating about User trial and Article nowhere mention that user trials will be done separately. The article is saying missile will be inducted next year that means it must have inducted by now ( 1 year for contract, logistics, production ).

 

[Sridhar_TN]

Hmm...... Have you ever been to Government Babu for anything? he doesn't say he wouldn't do your work but in reality, he will not do until you pay something otherwise he will keep on showing a deficiency in your documents... this is called rationale

How pathetic, we have been working on the "Main Battle Tank" for 40 years just to make it work in tandem with a foreign tank because we know it has got no place on earth where it can walk without sinking... even mathematics don't have an answer for it...

Ordering Arjun in a manner where the project itself becomes nonviable is far worse than rejection. imagine it is happing from 40 years. Have you heard about comparative trials with T-90?. The USA bought only 22 B2 but this is not rejection because the USA has not imported its substitute so it purely reflects their requirement

This link will help you to understand what DRDO feels and help you to clear your doubt

IAF never had a problem with any of the Russian missiles except the r77’s. In fact, they really like the r73 which is supposedly the same missile which shot down paf F-16 post balakot.
Apparently, the R77 being offered has been fitted with a new seeker and guidance system that improves its capabilities. I can not verify this.
Now, these missiles are being bought for our huge inventory of Russian aircraft. For the sukhois and migs.
Why is anyone concerned about the astra being rejected. It is well known that astra integration will be investigated till 2020 at least.
So chill. Even if astra is delayed, they will find som way to work it out. All the govt babu conspiracy aside, the iaf at this stage would not be complacent and will try to grab at anything they can get. They need all their resources in place to fight “that two front war” everyone is so worried about. So if the astra is good enough, and the iAf so far have not said one negative thing about it which itself is pretty great, you would most probably see it coupled to one of the iaf’s fighters sometime in the future.

 

[vishnugupt]

IAF never had a problem with any of the Russian missiles except the r77’s. In fact, they really like the r73 which is supposedly the same missile which shot down paf F-16 post balakot.
Apparently, the R77 being offered has been fitted with a new seeker and guidance system that improves its capabilities. I can not verify this.
Now, these missiles are being bought for our huge inventory of Russian aircraft. For the sukhois and migs.
Why is anyone concerned about the astra being rejected. It is well known that astra integration will be investigated till 2020 at least.
So chill. Even if astra is delayed, they will find som way to work it out. All the govt babu conspiracy aside, the iaf at this stage would not be complacent and will try to grab at anything they can get. They need all their resources in place to fight “that two front war” everyone is so worried about. So if the astra is good enough, and the iAf so far have not said one negative thing about it which itself is pretty great, you would most probably see it coupled to one of the iaf’s fighters

I have never asked what you are describing .... The argument was on different points

 

[Jaguar_1432]

I have never asked what you are describing .... The argument was on different points

The IAF has signed deals with Russia worth about USD700 million for an additional 1,000 AAMs to arm its fleets of MiG and Sukhoi combat aircraft. The order for AAMs, which was placed in early July, is for about 300 R-27 IR or semi-active radar-guided, medium-to-long range missiles; 300 R-73E IR-guided, short-range missiles, and 400 R-77 active radar-guided, medium range missiles. The sources said the R-27R1/ER1 and R-27T1/ET1 variants, which are fitted with semi-active and passive IR seekers, would arm the IAF's Su-30MKI and uprated MiG-29M fighter. Moreover, they said that the R-77 and R-73 AAMs would also be carried by the IAF's MiG-21 'Bison' fighters. Some of the R-73s might also arm the IAF's fleet of Mirage 2000H fighters, but this has yet to be confirmed.

 

[Armand2REP]

Why is anyone concerned about the astra being rejected.

Because that large order of Russian BVRAAMs was supposed to be replaced by Astra. That is yet again more money going out of the country for something India can produce itself today.

 

[Tang]

What would u make of this?............