Sukhoi PAK FA

[republic_roi97]

Well every sources spread their propaganda of their home country expect in INDIA (THE FOURTH PILLAR OF CONSTITUTION)

Well Times Now does. :biggrin2:
And Zee News too, NDTV is Paki and liberal propaganda. LOL
But again, does India needs to have a propaganda spreading channel, now is not really the time to have it.

 

[su35]

That is exactly why I say, if we want to go forward with US planes, lets go with F/A-18 ASH and nothing else. Otherwise, more Rafales or maybe more Su-30MKI with new russian AESA. More Rafales would be better.

FA 18 ASH is a good plane it is also good choice for both Air Force and Navel Air Arm. But I hardly believe USA will give us their best electronic warfare aircraft. They only offer glamorous brochure but after agreement a downscale fighter

 

[gadeshi]

This is quite a pathetic attempt to divert from the topic.

I proved that F35 orders are neither cut nor it is far from operational deployment. So now you try to divert attention to accidents. Showing that you accept that your previous claim was a lie after all.

Yes, but they simply cannot drop F-35 orders cause this could cripple US defence industry.

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[Defcon 1]

Yes, but they simply cannot drop F-35 orders cause this could cripple US defence industry.

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Same is true for every fighter in the world, including PAK FA. All defence industries have one star fighter project. Its PAK FA for Russia, F35 for US. This doesn't mean F35 is a bad plane.

 

[BON PLAN]

This is quite a pathetic attempt to divert from the topic.

I proved that F35 orders are neither cut nor it is far from operational deployment. So now you try to divert attention to accidents. Showing that you accept that your previous claim was a lie after all.

Absolutely not.
USA will NEVER baught all the F35 intended. It's far more too costly.
Danemark shortened its order.
Canada is disapointing and may opt, at least for interim solution, for SH18.
Israel has only ordered a small Qty.
Netherlands order is shorter than intended.
Never think GB will take 138 ! if it's 60 at the end it will be a miracle.
Italy has already reduce its order
etc...

 

[BON PLAN]

Same is true for every fighter in the world, including PAK FA. All defence industries have one star fighter project. Its PAK FA for Russia, F35 for US. This doesn't mean F35 is a bad plane.

So far F35 has proved NOTHING.
We just know it costs a lot, is less agile than a F16 with 2 tanks, isn't supercruiser able, is Under powered (it's why a new engine is already on the drawing board) , take fire easily and the support is not ready (ALIS).
Whaou.... astonishing !

 

[gadeshi]

So far F35 has proved NOTHING.
We just know it costs a lot, is less agile than a F16 with 2 tanks, isn't supercruiser able, is Under powered (it's why a new engine is already on the drawing board) , take fire easily and the support is not ready (ALIS).
Whaou.... astonishing !

Something tells me that it could be a good plane if it was not a 21-st century MiG-27 that costs $150M a piece and has a plenty of birth injuries 1/3 of which are impossible to cure and cripples the project.
We will see another one F-104 as LM cannot produce nothing but more and more F-104 patterns.

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[republic_roi97]

I guess it isn't the right time yet for fifth generation combat planes. Too much expensive a pop and technological breakthroughs are outnumbered by barriers. I guess right now, countries should work on 4.5 gen aircrafts more often.

 

[Defcon 1]

USA will NEVER baught all the F35 intended. It's far more too costly.
etc...

Prove this statement of yours. You are again making unproven claims.

 

[SajeevJino]

Prove this statement of yours. You are again making unproven claims.

+69

Nice to see you again ..!!

 

[Defcon 1]

So far F35 has proved NOTHING.
We just know it costs a lot, is less agile than a F16 with 2 tanks, isn't supercruiser able, is Under powered (it's why a new engine is already on the drawing board) , take fire easily and the support is not ready (ALIS).
Whaou.... astonishing !

F35 has received IOC, that alone is a proof. It will be operationally deployed on USS wasp in 2017. This is a fact.
https://sputniknews.com/military/201610251046727095-uss-wasp-japan/

It costs about 15% more than Rafale at the moment and costs are decreasing with every batch.
Agility is not as important for 5th gen than was for 4th gen, a 40G HOBS enabled WVR missile will not differentiate between a 8G and a 9G fighter.
Supercruise was never planned in F35.
It is not underpowered.
The proposed engine upgrade is a part of USAF's effort to develop a next generation engine for powering future aircraft. An upgraded F35 on the same engine is also a possibility, but it in no ways means that F35 is underpowered. If you claim otherwise, prove it.
Anyways, such engine upgrades are normal part of an aircraft lifecycle. Rafale has also gotten its engine upgraded multiple times, in fact if there is one plane with not ready engine, its PAK FA. It is still waiting for its izdeliye 30 engines, and reportedly IAF has refused to accept the Item 117 engines because they are simply upgraded versions of engines we have in Sukhois. F35's engine was built from scratch. It much more recent than PAK FA's current engine.

 

[Sam Biswas]

Oh really Lockheed and Boeing are corruption free and all other contractor are corrupted STOP YOUR DAY DREAM!!. How do you think India will saving its Forex reserve please explain.

Buying F 16/ F 35 meas we have to buy their complete weapon package discarding Isreal and russian weapon which will cost us fortune.

What is the guarantee that USA will not spy our bases using its technician and GPS devices of their plane.

Most of the nations have purchased F 16 to share common platform under NATO. USA still has lot of control over these planes

F 16 is widely purchased not due its multi role but due to cheap cost and virtual shield protection of NATO.

NATO is nothing expect USA

Lockheed is definitely bribe-free. Simple reason is there products are in such high demand that they don't need to bribe. In addition they are under high scrutiny of the government. Buying F16-F35 will save a Great deal of money/foreign exchange. They are far cheaper that what French and Russians are offering to India. Do simple math. If Lockheed sets up a F-16 factory with F-35 assembly line, maintenance will be very reasonable. Furthermore, Russia or France will not give India any technology and continuous change contract and bilk money. It will be cheaper to buy American weapons to out fit F-16s. Russia and Israel are not giving India free weapons! So who cares.

The more important point is Indian defense. India will not have enough fighter jets for a long time and fifth gen fighter at least for a decade. With F16/F35, India will have both in few years. China is already flying J-20 and if these are any good, China will be flyingJ-20 inside India in about a year. Time is not something India has a lot of. I believe with the current situation if India does not have a war(s) with Pak, China, or both in next 10 years; there will be no war in the future.

About spying, India is full of CIA spies. America does not need to give India F-16/F-35 to introduce spies in India. Actually it is the CIA which is telling US Government to arm India with latest weapons.
I think India should continue with Russia and go for a fifth gen fighter. But it is ludicrous for them to ask for five billion dollar to do research to develop FGFA. T-50 is already flying, then why do they need all that money to make it a two-seater. That five billion dollar will buy a lot of F-35s.

 

[gadeshi]

F35 has received IOC, that alone is a proof. It will be operationally deployed on USS wasp in 2017. This is a fact.
https://sputniknews.com/military/201610251046727095-uss-wasp-japan/

It costs about 15% more than Rafale at the moment and costs are decreasing with every batch.
Agility is not as important for 5th gen than was for 4th gen, a 40G HOBS enabled WVR missile will not differentiate between a 8G and a 9G fighter.
Supercruise was never planned in F35.
It is not underpowered.
The proposed engine upgrade is a part of USAF's effort to develop a next generation engine for powering future aircraft. An upgraded F35 on the same engine is also a possibility, but it in no ways means that F35 is underpowered. If you claim otherwise, prove it.
Anyways, such engine upgrades are normal part of an aircraft lifecycle. Rafale has also gotten its engine upgraded multiple times, in fact if there is one plane with not ready engine, its PAK FA. It is still waiting for its izdeliye 30 engines, and reportedly IAF has refused to accept the Item 117 engines because they are simply upgraded versions of engines we have in Sukhois. F35's engine was built from scratch. It much more recent than PAK FA's current engine.

F-35 has poor fighter abilities due to poor flight package.
If India wants to join NATO and participate in neo-colonial wars in "crowd beats one" tactics against papua savages with Kalashnikovs - then yes, F-35 is a good choice.
If India wants to depend on US heavy fighters support and cover each time it clashes with equal foe - than yes, F-35 is a good choice.
And such a "good" choices we can find a big wagon and a small cart attached.

 

[gadeshi]

Lockheed is definitely bribe-free.

The rest is irrelevant to write and read
Remember F-104, LCS and Zummwalt friend...

 

[gadeshi]

T-50-5R (1-05R) during weapons tests in Akhtubinsk weapons and tactics test center:

 

[Sam Biswas]

Prove this statement of yours. You are again making unproven claims.

Well, that is what French and Russians are good at, bogus claims with no merit whatsoever.

 

[su35]

Lockheed is definitely bribe-free. Simple reason is there products are in such high demand that they don't need to bribe. In addition they are under high scrutiny of the government. Buying F16-F35 will save a Great deal of money/foreign exchange. They are far cheaper that what French and Russians are offering to India. Do simple math. If Lockheed sets up a F-16 factory with F-35 assembly line, maintenance will be very reasonable. Furthermore, Russia or France will not give India any technology and continuous change contract and bilk money. It will be cheaper to buy American weapons to out fit F-16s. Russia and Israel are not giving India free weapons! So who cares.

The more important point is Indian defense. India will not have enough fighter jets for a long time and fifth gen fighter at least for a decade. With F16/F35, India will have both in few years. China is already flying J-20 and if these are any good, China will be flyingJ-20 inside India in about a year. Time is not something India has a lot of. I believe with the current situation if India does not have a war(s) with Pak, China, or both in next 10 years; there will be no war in the future.

About spying, India is full of CIA spies. America does not need to give India F-16/F-35 to introduce spies in India. Actually it is the CIA which is telling US Government to arm India with latest weapons.
I think India should continue with Russia and go for a fifth gen fighter. But it is ludicrous for them to ask for five billion dollar to do research to develop FGFA. T-50 is already flying, then why do they need all that money to make it a two-seater. That five billion dollar will buy a lot of F-35s.

I have a few doubts related to your post?

1> You are telling India will not have fifth generation aircraft in a decade. quite true then how can you prove that if we buy F 35 now we will get under a decade. LM has just started limited production of aircraft It has to deliver problem free aircraft first to member directly associated to programme not to us.

2> What more benefits F 16 has to cover that we cannot have with our Su 30mki and Tejas combo. For more Detailed conversation refer to ADA thread. It is boiling hot in last few days.

3> we are investing in PAK FA to learn more about Fifth generation aircraft designing and manufacturing. We know that Russian will not offers their Engine ASEA radar tech do you think USA will offers us this same expect in Brochures

4> You proved that USA is using India has slave in fighting with China

5> Even if we buy F 35 do you really thing Uncle Sam will allow use of its aircraft in random airbase. We have lot of Russian Engineers working in Bases to help our locals. Even C 17 are kept in separate base not with su 30mki (Old source though)

 

[StealthFlanker]

So far F35 has proved NOTHING.
We just know it costs a lot, is less agile than a F16 with 2 tanks, isn't supercruiser able, is Under powered (it's why a new engine is already on the drawing board) , take fire easily and the support is not ready (ALIS).
Whaou.... astonishing !

So you pulling those nonsense statement once again , even though , it have been explained over and over and over in Rafale thread http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/threads/know-your-rafale.32861/page-245 , trolling much ?

 

[A chauhan]

Even if your products are high on demand, you can not be corruption-free ! Corruption always finds way.

 

[Sam Biswas]

I have a few doubts related to your post?

1> You are telling India will not have fifth generation aircraft in a decade. quite true then how can you prove that if we buy F 35 now we will get under a decade. LM has just started limited production of aircraft It has to deliver problem free aircraft first to member directly associated to programme not to us.

2> What more benefits F 16 has to cover that we cannot have with our Su 30mki and Tejas combo. For more Detailed conversation refer to ADA thread. It is boiling hot in last few days.

3> we are investing in PAK FA to learn more about Fifth generation aircraft designing and manufacturing. We know that Russian will not offers their Engine ASEA radar tech do you think USA will offers us this same expect in Brochures

4> You proved that USA is using India has slave in fighting with China

5> Even if we buy F 35 do you really thing Uncle Sam will allow use of its aircraft in random airbase. We have lot of Russian Engineers working in Bases to help our locals. Even C 17 are kept in separate base not with su 30mki (Old source though)

1. F-35 is already in production in full speed. There are many assembly lines even outside USA. For example Italy has its own assembly line. Lockheed has a very high band width. Pentagon made many orders and deliveries already. The latest order of 57 jets are to be delivered around 2020, I think.
2. India already has a lot of Su30MKI. There must be an operational reason IAF wants some other fighter jets, for example reliability and availability. I believe Tejas is wonderful and that is what India should invest in. But if India needs a single engine Proven fighter jet, choice has to be F-16, particularly when Lockheed is willing to set up manufacturing in India of this iconic jet. India will get inside knowledge of the most successful fighter jet manufacturing that would be very helpful to India.
3. Any deal with Lockheed needs to be negotiated carefully to suit India's need. PM Modi is very capable in that regard. Doing business with Lockheed would be far easier than with Russian and French companies. As long as Lockheed gets Pentagon approval, they will not care to keep technologies concealed. I understand Pentagon already approved.
4. I said USA sees India, being a True democracy, as a good and formidable strategic partner in Asia.
5. USA is a democracy like India, so very fluid. Everything is up for negotiation. And India supplies engineers to the world including USA. Why India needs Russian engineers to help locals in India, I would not know. When I was a kid in Durgapur India, I saw some Russians in Durgapur Steel who were known to create problems.